Plebe Summer - First Phone Call on Sunday July 11th

Thank you! This site is so informative and very comforting for a parent of a Plebe.
 
Memphis9489 - Complaining about being a midshipman is part of being a midshipman, apparently.

One of my "Words of Wisdom" I imparted on my sons before they went off to the academy was to warn them - "Go ahead and ***** about life at the academy with your friends. But never allow that cynicism to define who you are.
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You are so correct!

What I have noticed over the 4 years is that they like to complain, they like to be cynical but only within the confines of those associated with the Academy or around their parents. Kind of like "I may not like my brother but don't dish on him in public"

For our case,I saw my son and his friends change as they got to be firsties, got to leadership positions and the cynicism starts to fade and by Commissioning it was the greatest school and the coolest town to go to school in! I don't know how many times I heard that, especially on Friday night after graduation as crowds of newly minted Ensigns and 2LT's took to DTA.
 
Profomom2 - very well said...even now when people ask me about my time @ USNA I described my time as a love/hate relationship somedays you could have those feelings multiple times throughout the day (mostly during Plebe year), BUT what I always follow it up with is that I would do it all over again in a heartbeat even plebe summer.

The bonds you make @ USNA will never compare to that of someone who went to a civilian college, not to mention you bond so much quicker when you become part of the Fleet or the Corps and run into fellow grads, again something you wont see from those who came from a civilian college.
 
Memphis9489 said:
One of my "Words of Wisdom" I imparted on my sons before they went off to the academy was to warn them - "Go ahead and ***** about life at the academy with your friends. But never allow that cynicism to define who you are. It should mostly be tongue-in-cheek or just venting. But if you really start believing how miserable life is - you'll start really being miserable."
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This continues even more after graduation when assigned to the confined quarters of a ship or submarine. Not only does the complainer become miserable but he makes those around him miserable. I think USNA grads have learned when and how much to ***** by the time they hit the fleet moreso than the other commissioning sources. Thinking back, OCS grads tended to complain more followed by ROTC and I can only remember one USNA grad and I think it was just his personality. It's amazing what all one learns at the Academy, isn't it? Even how to ***** properly.
 
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Just wanted to update....I never meant to cause controversy over attending PEP during PPW - just wanting information. Having said that, I respect both viewpoints and have thus decided that because we are arriving late Wed. nite, anyone who wants to get up early and attend PEP on Thursday morning will. I will miss the hi mom hi dad stuff but feel this is a viable option and a good compromise. Thanks for all the input.
 
nfugleberg said:
Just wanted to update....I never meant to cause controversy over attending PEP during PPW - just wanting information. Having said that, I respect both viewpoints and have thus decided that because we are arriving late Wed. nite, anyone who wants to get up early and attend PEP on Thursday morning will. I will miss the hi mom hi dad stuff but feel this is a viable option and a good compromise. Thanks for all the input.
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Not to worrry. This is the forum to ask questions and get ideas and other's opinions. Everyone will end up doing what is best for them. I don't think there is ever a "one size fits all" answer. And, if anyone on this forum goes, we could always wear our red, white, and blue ribbon pins we wore on I Day to identify ourselves! ....or...maybe not! Go Navy! :biggrin:
 
tango-help!!!

we are having the same problem-sad, mentally challenged. i wonder if they are getting the counseling they need. this kid is very smart, physically fit and all of a sudden is broken down. what do we do? listen to him or keep encouraging. this has been going on for 2 1/2 weeks now. if the second round of detailers is worse i am afraid he will quit which really goes against all of his dreams. what should we do? anyone we should call about this? i do not want him to be so confused about his future. surely there is some positive things that happen??? anybody have any wise words here????

sue
 
If it were my Plebe, I would encourage him to follow through at least into first semester. He can always transfer after the first year, but dropping out now really limits his options for starting at a civilian college this fall. Also, you say that it is his dream - are you sure? If it truly was his dream, then maybe some tough love during this Sunday's call is in order while you remind him of his deep desire to go to USNA a few short weeks ago. You know your child best, but perhaps he should talk to one of the chaplains - someone who he can talk freely with without fear of disappointing.
 
sue said:
we are having the same problem-sad, mentally challenged. i wonder if they are getting the counseling they need. this kid is very smart, physically fit and all of a sudden is broken down. what do we do? listen to him or keep encouraging. this has been going on for 2 1/2 weeks now. if the second round of detailers is worse i am afraid he will quit which really goes against all of his dreams. what should we do? anyone we should call about this? i do not want him to be so confused about his future. surely there is some positive things that happen??? anybody have any wise words here????

sue
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Dear Sue I am the husband of "Proud Mom" and an '82 grad. I am probably not the norm as far as getting all weepy eyed on "The Academy". I went there for many reasons, some good, some not so good. I have always loved the challenge of doing things that most people either haven't or can't do. I was not "mentally" prepared for Plebe Summer. I wanted to get away from home, be independent, and not financially obligated to my parents for anything, who were extremely overbearing. Didn't matter what I had to do to achieve that, that was priority #1. Love of country, service to country, honor, tradition, history, uniqueness, and pushing myself in every way all gelled together to form the other reasons in one way or another.

The point being that I spent my first 2 years always looking over my shoulder, making sure that I could "get out" if I wanted to and not really embracing the opportunity and the moment and hitting the challenge right back in the face as hard as I should have.

At the end of my Youngster year a family friend, Capt Richard Stratton, a Vietnam POW and his family were stationed at the Naval Academy and lived in the Yard by the parade field. They provided me a home away from home, and I spent many weekends over there, as their children and I had grown up together. He is NOT an Academy grad and did not have a great background in the good and the bad, he just saw the challenge that I faced and offered me refuge if I needed it and an ear to listen, very rarely saying anything.

The weekend before sitting down for my first class, Second Class Year, I was really planning on quitting and transferring to the University of Michigan. Capt Stratton and I sat down, and he knew where I was leaning and gave me some of the soundest advice up until that point. He asked me what my end goal was. It wasn't necessarily completing my schooling there and getting a degree. My goal was to become a Naval Aviator. He said don't let the Academy and it's challenges determine whether or not I attained my end goal. He understood how difficult it was (but I knew it was not compared to what he went through for 7 years in Vietnam, so what was I *****ing for) but basically, said what I already knew- challenges would have to be overcome wherever I went and whatever other path I chose to take to become a Naval Aviator.

Needless to say, I stayed. The last 2 years were far more enjoyable than the first 2, because I committed myself to my final goal and embraced the situation far more than I had in my first 2 years.

My roommate, who was a "die-hard" career Naval Officer "in training" for the first 2 years, however, ended up quitting. One thing that I never did respect the officers at the Academy for doing was the EXTREME guilt trip that they laid on him as he contemplated his decision to quit. They didn't just let him go and respect his decision. They kept him there for almost a week, let him dangle, gave him all sorts of facts of the failure experienced by individuals who had decided to quit...when in fact the exact opposite is true. My roommate became a very successful lawyer.

The Naval Academy is neither good nor bad. Whatever your son decides to do, he needs to understand that there are great obstacles that must be faced and overcome regardless of whether he stays or not. It may be more difficult in the civilian environment, it may not be for him.

My goal was to become a Naval Aviator, that's what happened. I now fly for Delta Air Lines (ex-Northwest). Could I have done it without going to the Academy...possibly. Would it have been more difficult...I think without question.

I have more of a negative spin on the Academy than most, so I was really sort of surprised when my daughter asked if I would mind if she applied for the NASS session this summer. I told her that if she applied and got in that I would support her but that would have to be her decision alone. To her credit, she applied on her own, got accepted and did well.

I did take her out 1 day in advance and we walked the grounds. I don't think that I had been back in about 25 years. We got accustomed to the grounds, talked about what I thought she might experience, went into the museum, the academic buildings, and anything else that wasn't locked. The one piece of advice that I gave her was she would most definitely come out of the session either loving or hating the challenge, but that if she was going to really give it a fair evaluation, at least for the time that she was at NASS, she should embrace everything that she was challenged with, because that's the only way that she would really know whether or not the opportunity would be for her. She did and she did exceptionally well to her credit. My best recommendation would be for him to really evaluate what his end goal is or what he would like it to be. Focus on that and embrace as much as possible all the crap that's thrown his way, because it's all one big sorting process, whether he stays or not.

Best of luck,
Proud Mom's husband
 
sue said:
we are having the same problem-sad, mentally challenged. i wonder if they are getting the counseling they need. this kid is very smart, physically fit and all of a sudden is broken down. what do we do? listen to him or keep encouraging. this has been going on for 2 1/2 weeks now. if the second round of detailers is worse i am afraid he will quit which really goes against all of his dreams. what should we do? anyone we should call about this? i do not want him to be so confused about his future. surely there is some positive things that happen??? anybody have any wise words here????

sue
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Is your son in Tango now or is he still with his company and you are getting letters that he is not happy?
 
Please do not let him quit. Tell him that you expect him to stay at least one year. Tell him that you want him to stick it out and not make a decision so soon into the process. If he feels the same way in a year, fine. But now is too much of a mental and physically hard time for all the Plebes that everyone is feeling low. Just keep encouraging him. Keep us posted.
 
Sue

I found a lot of information and comfort in what Proud Mom's husband had to say. It's not all rainbows and daisies...Part of my very hard transformation from mom to Navy mom is that I no longer call the shots and don't make the decisions for DS any more...It sucks for me, but like someone said previously, he's not addicted, not in jail, and is on his way on his own....

That said, we got a letter wondering "if I made a mistake..." and I simply upped the encouragement....I have read that one cannot really make a decision until after starting the 3/c year because it's only then that plebe year is really behind them.

DS was also VERY concerned about the number of plebes who have had access to AP courses and he hasn't - we live in a rural area of North Dakota and despite not living here all our lives, I believe it probably was a detriment for his high school career. However, math is math, science is science and you KNOW your son has what it takes. He wouldn't be there if the Navy didn't believe it too.

He EARNED his spot - maybe remind him that they want to know how badly he wants to keep it? I believe they WANT the plebes to succeed....but they need to earn it. Things will change over the academic year (at least that's what I'm telling myself and my mid)....

Bottom line - I'm so new at this that I'm actually wondering why I'm "giving advise" but I think as hard as it it on your mid, getting these letters is probably harder on you.....As it would be on me.

I'm not gonna get a lot of support for this advise (I think) but the bottom line I believe is that this is more of a test for YOU than it is for your son. He's still there and he's looking for you to give him a way out...DON'T GIVE IT TO HIM!!

This may be the hardest thing you've ever done...and, if he decides not to complete his education at the Academy it will be HIS decision. At this point I think all we can do as parents is keep them semi-calm until they have the capability to make that decision.

I certainly hope I have not offended you....we all have different parenting styles but you know your son. He IS smart. He IS a hard worker. He CAN do whatever he needs to do. He's THERE.

Just so you know, I have been beating myself up for 3 weeks now for sending DS to that "awful place". I didn't choose it. He did. Now up to me to be the cheerleader and tough love contender.....I believe your son is looking for YOU to not give up on him....even when he so sorely doubts himself.

I'll keep you in my prayers.
 
The plebes are three weeks in and the "new" has worn off - I think a lot of questioning is going on. It's time now to dig deep and push through. From a letter we received today from our son: "I just know that if I let myself quit (which I never will) I would miss out on too many opportunities and great experiences and never forgive myself. I've just got to enjoy the little things and push through the bad." He goes on to say "I miss you guys. I miss the pets. I miss TEXAS. I sincerely do. I'll be able to get through this though. I love you guys so much. Send letters please." I think it's hard for everybody - but then, it's supposed to be.
 
Thank goodness for this forum. DS is still hanging tough-he is not in T company-still insists he doesn't think it is for him. Says he "has continued to take measures in case he decides to leave-whatever that means." i do know he told the uniform fitters he "wasn't sure he was staying". i find it hard to believe by this point he hasn't been forced to be fitted for his uniforms. also found out he was very sick for 13 days before he went to the medic. Try running and doing everything else with out going to the bathroom for 13 days. He says it frightens him -to become the person he feels it will take to stay in the environment he is facing. From what i am seeing and hearing the company he is in is having difficulties all around -they haven't been photographed very much and seem to be out of the mix. Haven't talked to but one or two parents who have received anything but miserable letters.(to the point a detailer has mentioned the moral all the way around is bad and to send plenty of care packages). DS said don't send anything else they are about to not pass inspection because they have no where to store anything. Very mixed messages coming out.He says the constant state of panic and the loss of all individuality is very stressful. although he says he understands the need and his platoon is very close and works well as a team. 2 mins to dress shave brush teeth make beds etc says he has to choose between brushing his teeth and shaving ---that to me is no big deal. thanked me over and over again for the febreeze and spray room freshener--said they would puke if he didn't have it. Cant eat aren't allowed to go to the bathroom ---even bears **** in the woods don't they? anyway letters are at least more informative but he has talked to his superiors about his doubts. wish i knew how to help him thru.
i agree -one step at a time -get thru the summer-then the first semester---baby steps so to speak. I'm really feeling it-know he is. Wonder if it shouldn't be Go Navy-Beat Navy right now-lol
 
To all

Just wanted to vent.....it s*cks to be the parent of a plebe. I can only imagine how much it s*cks to be a plebe. HANG TOUGH YOU ALL!!!!
 
One thing that really hasn’t been touched on here is homesickness. If it was truly a dream and they were really prepared, the real problem may be homesickness. It can come in all forms, from desire to return to the womb to fear of the unknown future . The perception is often that to admit to homesickness is to admit to a personal weakness. Therefore, if you as a parent are receiving mixed signals, it might because your mid is unable or unwilling to admit to the true reasons. I know mids who have, in the middle of Plebe summer, rather than sit through all the counseling and attempt to explain their true feelings, simply, along with all the laundry workers, walked out the front gate at 5PM on a weekday afternoon never to return. The fact that they blended in might help one understand where all the white works trou and blue rim t-shirts end up that don’t come back from the laundry.

How you as a parent deal with it, you know best. Time is often the only solution. What you do to ensure that they stay there long enough to confront it and overcome it is up to you. Encouraging 'baby steps' is probably as good a way as any.
 
Resilience

Blackhawkmom (is that another moniker for "helicopter mom"? (<:), I truly feel for you...

Mongo, while homesickness may be a strong factor affecting plebes' adaptational process at USNA, in my opinion individual resilience [i.e. positive behavioral adaptation when encountering significant adversity, trauma, tragedy, significant stress] lies at the heart of the matter.

Is one born resilient or can resilience be learned? The literature indicates both. The study of resilience has become a hot topic in military medicine, as well as in other high risk/high stress occupations.

dolium volvitur
 
777flier said:
Mongo, while homesickness may be a strong factor affecting plebes' adaptational process at USNA, in my opinion individual resilience [i.e. positive behavioral adaptation when encountering significant adversity, trauma, tragedy, significant stress] lies at the heart of the matter.
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I know nothing about the concept of resilience but I would say that many of the traits which allow "positive behavioral adaptation when encountering significant adversity, trauma, tragedy, significant stress" would be measured directly by one's WPM, and therefore, considered in the Admissions process. However, I know of no method of measuring for homesickness which, therefore, causes it to remain an unknown.
 
Blackhawkmom,
When I read your post; I knew I didn't have the advice that could help, so I turned to my husband, and asked him to try and offer help. I'm sure he'd hate it that I'm writing this, but I think it is important- as he responded to you, he became emotional; this is not a side I've seen but twice in our 24 years of marriage. It tells me that he must feel your son's pain. When he took our daughter to NASS, he said, "I didn't appreciate this place enough." It's difficult to appreciate or embrace anything when your brain is in a protective mode.

I'm reading a book (Natural Ways to Unleash Your Brain's Maximum Potential- Magnificent Mind at Any Age, by Daniel G. Amen, M.D.) that I think would be great for anyone to read, but I'm sharing information I learn with my daughter, 2015 candidate. One of the topics refers to the brains reserve. "Brain reserve is the cushion, margin, or extra neurons that we have, to deal with unexpected events or insults. The more reserve we have, the more stresses or injuries we can handle. The less reserve, the more vulnerable we are." At conception, we all have the same reserve. Many things can erode it; many things can boost it. Many things are listed that decrease the brain's reserve, you can imagine what they would be poor diet, drug use, alcohol, smoking, lack of exercise.... The things on the list that Plebes may be dealing with that decrease the brain's reserve are (and there may be more that I can't imagine): negative thinking, chronic stress and lack of sleep
Ways to maintain a brain healthy life will increase your reserve and ability to deal with pending stresses or trouble. Here is the complete list of the number of ways to to do it. (Ways to add more neurons to your life)

Make positive social connections
engage in new learning
maintain a healthy diet
take a daily multiple vitamin
take a fish oil supplement
learn music
exercise regularly
dance
engage in positive thinking
express gratitude
meditate

Your son said he doesn't want you to send any more care packages for a good reason, but maybe he needs to throw away or give away some of the stuff you previously sent so it can be replaced by other things that would be useful to his brain reserve. I don't know what kinds of things that they are not allowed, so this may not be helpful.
Think about what he said about needing to decide between brushing his teeth and shaving. It doesn't seem like a big deal, I agree, but I think it more about taking away from them constantly.

Can you put something in his care package that will replace brushing his teeth? Breath mints or maybe they make something that replaces brushing for a day or so... mouthwash...
Maybe a container of "baby" wipes to give his body a quick cleaning.
Think of other useful things. ???
A quick game of Sudoko may fall under the category of new learning, not sure. A mini Sudoku appears in USA Today, which is played on a 6×6 grid with 3×2 regions. The object is the same as standard Sudoku, but the puzzle only uses the numbers 1 through 6. You can buy small books of these # puzzles at book stores
Can they receive multiple vitamins and/or fish oil supplements?
We buy these chocolate squares that contain an extremely high amount of antioxidants to aid our immune system. If they are allowed something like that, it would be worth it to make his body feel healthy.

Positive encouragement is key. Instead of; you will be so upset with yourself if you quit, say, you will be so proud of yourself on (date) when you have completed this difficult time. Keep thinking of other ways to positively state things.
I think it must be true, parents have to make sure THEY remain strong for their son or daughter. They NEED to hear that YOU believe that they can do this.
I don't know if my daughter will get a LOA, but I'm trying to learn as much as I can to prepare me and her in the event that she is a Plebe.
I'm sure my husband will want to respond to some of the things your son wrote in the letter.
Stay strong, and you and your son are in my prayers.
Proudmom and 3rd grade teacher
 
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