Plebes Dropping Already

MidCakePa said:
Also, PEP was severely scaled back because the number of plebes getting injured or sick (not counting CV19) was greater than usual. Seems like this is empirically known across the regiment, and not just anecdotal by company. Black-flag conditions also limited the amount of outdoor activity.
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DS said they have averaged seeing 3 or so ambulances a day so far carrying out heat victims.
 
Ahhh Yes, Free 19.... the legend is still ongoing. I may or may not have been at that Army Navy game when that one got famous.
 
And us old timers will never believe any of them had a real Plebe Summer simply because they have air conditioning in Bancroft. Now I know they say it's hot and barely works, but to us that did Plebe Summer and 4 years by the bay with none... we would take barely working A/C any day. ;)
 
Serious question here: will there be “payback” during the year towards the plebes? I could see that as a thing. Is that what you dd means @MidCakePa by “supplementary”?

Its unfortunate all around. My own guy is severely limited in what he is allowed to do. Detailers are restricted in what they can do to him. Due to COVID and it’s complications within his body.

Honestly it’s killing him to not be 100pct, and able to really be part of his company. Help them out. He has to sit and watch them. That is challenging, to, for someone who is conditioned and wired to help his team, especially physically (as a team captain does).

I completely agree: this was NOT a real plebe summer...
 
justdoit19 said:
Serious question here: will there be “payback” during the year towards the plebes?
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> I don't think there will be any retribution or payback ... COVID and impact on Plebe summer is beyond their control. There will be good natured ribbing , and it may last forever . In addition, even though Plebe Summer is restrained, Plebe Training is really a 10 month long program (at least if done right). That part may be even harder this year. Normally, the upperclass are distracted by their own academics, and own activities --with those activities curtailed, the Upperclass will have more time to run, er "train" , Plebes.
 
Sorry to jump in here, oh wait, I started this monster of a thread. My son never went through plebe summer, COVID or otherwise, and I guarantee you not one person on this planet has the stones to give him a hard time about his plebe summer experience-non experience. In the big picture, these last few days will not matter one eye-o-ta. At this point the USN I'm sure just wants to get these young people to the academic year safe and alive.
 
I am sure that USNA would love for them all to be healthy and happy and progressing through training as per usual. That simply isn't the case. There are not just plebes moved back to rom/iso but detailers as well. That changes things up for the detailers as well. They too, are juggling. What they can physically ask of these kids in rom is incredibly limited, they are having to adjust sails and get trainings virtually to plebes in iso and rom.

They are not just watching netfllix and chillin' out; they were given explicit instruction to do written assignments, learn rates, participate in meetings (unless too ill), be involved in the company group conversations and lectures/guest speakers. No social media, no postings no nonsense. And, do that, while nervously waiting for test results, radiology reports, and manage the anxiety of worrying about how all of this will end and reflect on you and your company. This, while trying to maintain a positive attitude, support for company mates, discipline of self, enthusiasm for the process and watch out the window as 1100 others do what you wish you were doing.
This isn't meant to be a pity post, they will get through it. They may be stronger for it (after physical recovery) and maybe have a perspective no plebe has ever had before. But, I do think it is daunting in the moment. I am grateful mine is trying to retain a positve attitude and buckle down for rates, assignments etc. He is resolved to starting the ac year and looking forward to eating in King Hall again.
 
Old Navy BGO said:
I am the first to admit, USMC knows how to do boot camp. Over the years, I've seen several young, frightened HS kids go away and come back from boot camp as confident young men. The transformation is amazing !

I knew a USMC DI pretty well back when I was in HS. He was one of our Civil Air Patrol leaders, and was quite the character. He was a SSGT stationed at the local Reserve depot, so still active duty and just fresh from DI duty (I don't recall which Coast). Some of the stories he would tell about running recruits were scary, but I learned enough from him to recognize that both NAPS INDOC and Plebe Summer were kind of a cakewalk.
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Truth there- the transformations can be amazing to see.

Are the vacated slots filled by candidates next on the list or do they remain open? Curious how that part works. Thanks.
 
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There is nothing easier this year, for anyone, Plebes included. Too much uncertainty. Where there is uncertainty, there is increased anxiety and risk. Where there is increased anxiety and risk, there are more unfavorable outcomes, and hence greater costs.
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justdoit19 said:
Serious question here: will there be “payback” during the year towards the plebes? I could see that as a thing. Is that what you dd means @MidCakePa by “supplementary”?
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No, that’s not what’s meant by “supplementary.” By the way, that’s my word, not DD’s. I’m paraphrasing her comments.

What DD meant by that sentiment is that with Plebe Summer shortened to less than 2/3 its normal length, there simply isn’t time to teach plebes all they’d normally learn in seven weeks. So “supplementary” instruction will be necessary during ac year to ensure plebes are as squared away as can be. Nothing ominous — just practical.
 
I think they will hear about it being shortened and lighter in some aspects, not necessarily individually about if they got sent to ROM. I think there are evolutions that were cut out of the summer due to time that they will get as a part of Saturday morning training during the academic year. Saturday morning trainings usually start out very early and run until shortly before liberty. Many can be physically challenging. It's a great time to come back to training events that maybe got bumped from the Plebe Summer calendar. I think those Saturdays are great times for additional training for the entire Brigade. The value Mids can learn from having different communities come and talk about career paths and JOs discussing what it's like being on their first ship are invaluable. Those interested in flying deep dives into the airframes, training pipeline and uniqueness of squadrons for each airframe are important. Same thing with Marine Corps.

Uncertainty is at the core of the military. Everything they do is part of it. It's why they take away clocks, watches, schedules, identity during Plebe Summer. It makes them not know what is next. It's why second set detail is so ominous. Even if their first set detailer was miserably tough, the unknown is even worse. But, its why its so important. The entire military is uncertainty. Its making decisions in high stress environments with limited information. Plebe Summer is the start of it. We used to hear, "What now Lt!!!!!" all the time at TBS. There is the great debate... "The only bad decision is no decision." I don't agree with that, but I understand the sentiment. The Ac year doesn't stress this as much, but alot of summer training, Saturday morning training, ethics courses, leadership courses, character development training is all based on these types of things. First rule of leadership is learning how to follow. The 4/C are learning that now and developing the building blocks to join the Brigade. Plebe Summer is one phase of training and if you listen to the oath the Detailers take... its to prepare them to join the Brigade. Plebe Year is meant to be a grind. Push their grit, team work, desire to be there, learning to follow, peer leadership. The remaining years each have a leadership lesson in them and the culmination of the 4 years is meant to commission a well prepared officer.
 
NavyHoops said:
Its making decisions in high stress environments with limited information. Plebe Summer is the start of it. We used to hear, "What now Lt!!!!!" all the time at TBS. There is the great debate... "The only bad decision is no decision." I don't agree with that, but I understand the sentiment.
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When LTJG OldRetSWO went up for his OOD board, it wasn't great, some of the board members kept twisting and turning the scenarios BUT . . . the deciding vote was (of course) the Captain. A couple of days later The Captain had a private chat with me and told me that for him the deciding factor was that he'd observed me for a long time on the bridge and directing/shooting live ordnance and knew that I WOULD make a decision and wouldn't stand there dithering while everything went to hell (his words).
 
OldRetSWO said:
When LTJG OldRetSWO went up for his OOD board, it wasn't great, some of the board members kept twisting and turning the scenarios BUT . . . the deciding vote was (of course) the Captain. A couple of days later The Captain had a private chat with me and told me that for him the deciding factor was that he'd observed me for a long time on the bridge and directing/shooting live ordnance and knew that I WOULD make a decision and wouldn't stand there dithering while everything went to hell (his words).
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That is something I would have taken to heart as a compliment and carried with me for years. Some mentor/supervisor evaluations matter more than others. That is a keeper.
 
Heatherg21 said:
That is something I would have taken to heart as a compliment and carried with me for years. Some mentor/supervisor evaluations matter more than others. That is a keeper.
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I most certainly held onto it and took great pains to try to pass the concept of Observe, Decide, ACT into trainees that I mentored. Within a few months of being qualified, we went into the yard for a few months and had a big officer turnover so when we emerged, I ended up being the bridge trainer for most of our new officers. Strange how that works :zip:
 
NavyHoops said:
Ahhh Yes, Free 19.... the legend is still ongoing. I may or may not have been at that Army Navy game when that one got famous.
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This isn't the thread for it, but I would like to hear stories of Free 19. DD was a member of Free 19 (c/o 2019) and never told me any stories.....😺.
 
CatChaser said:
This isn't the thread for it, but I would like to hear stories of Free 19. DD was a member of Free 19 (c/o 2019) and never told me any stories.....😺.
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During my time at USNA as a BattO, the stories I heard from the earlier 90’s was something so bad happened, the whole company was fried and locked down. No doubt some hyperbole applies.
 
MidCakePa said:
Also, PEP was severely scaled back because the number of plebes getting injured or sick (not counting CV19) was greater than usual. Seems like this is empirically known across the regiment, and not just anecdotal by company. Black-flag conditions also limited the amount of outdoor activity.
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None of the posts after our 2nd phone call on Sunday referenced Plebe Hack. My son is hoarse and tired, but otherwise feels fine. Do you think ROM and the cohort approach (keeping companies relatively separate) had one inadvertent benefit...the usual petri dish of upper respiratory viruses didn't rage through the whole Plebe class as usually happens every year? Or does the "sick" refer to Plebe Hack, too...not just the heat/humidity casualties ?
 
I believe a couple of “people in the know“ on SAF (they know who they are) confirmed that plebe hack seemed to be a lesser deal this year. That would make sense: partly from smaller and separated groups, partly from less rigor to break down immune systems. And maybe other factors too, such as greater emphasis on hygiene and physical contact.

DD the Detailer didn’t mention plebe hack, but she did mention heat, humidity, and some seemingly out-of-shape plebes. She did have a very hoarse voice, though, as did the other detailers. Her company’s detailers went through a ton of honey to soothe their throats.
 
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