Police "violation"

Does anyone know how the question is worded on the personal data record? I am relatively certain it used to be something along the lines of "Do you have a police record of any kind?" And then, of course, the caveat at the end to notify Admissions of any and all changes.
 
Mongo said:
Does anyone know how the question is worded on the personal data record? I am relatively certain it used to be something along the lines of "Do you have a police record of any kind?" And then, of course, the caveat at the end to notify Admissions of any and all changes.
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Just pulled out my son's copy that we printed out when he did his application a couple weeks ago ago and it says:

"Have you ever been cited, arrested, convicted or fined for a violation of any law or ordinance?" Then "Description of incidents".

Sounds like "Cited" would be the one of concern to the OP assuming he doesn't end up with a fine.
 
Pulled the same.


"Have you ever been cited, arrested, convicted or fined for any violation of any law or ordinance? If yes, complete the section below." Block provided for explanation.

"FAILURE TO REPORT ANY SUCH INCIDENT MAY BE GROUNDS FOR WITHDRAWL OF AN OFFER OF AN APPOINTMENT OR MAY SUBSEQUENTLY RESULT IN DISSMISSAL FROM USNA"

Report everything, even the little things.
 
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Well, AF, sounds like we agree on the wording at least! :wink: I didn't have the "if yes" part because his printout just showed NO after the first question.
 
I think the problem with this thread is that everyone is basing the course of action off of "treaspassing is equivalent to a speeding ticket." Just because the officer says it, doesn't mean much. Equivalent to who? In terms of what? Going 5mph over the speed limit is a bit different then showing up on someone elses property illegally. Niether is violent, but there is a difference.

I'm not sure what you've done so far in terms of legal action. If I were you, a hundred fifty bucks wouldn't hurt for a consulation with a lawyer. This won't help much with USNA because you'll have to report it anyway, but in the future it helps with background checks, etc. You could likely get everything off your record by hiring a lawyer. Remember, just because a responding officer says it won't be on your record doesn't mean a thing.


"According to NY State Penal Law 140.05, to be convicted of trespass it must be proven that the person knew they were on private land." I think this can be proved. This isn't the end all though. Property law get's a little tricky with things like this. I could probably cite 3-4 cases with similar principles. It's really worth getting a lawyer though as a defense like this can be a bit tricky. The law does specify how private property is treated when it has high usage by others. Sometimes the land ends up becoming re-zoned. Especially since many people use it, entire families, etc. and even for many years.

Worth the couple hundred bucks for the lawyer if you can afford it.
 
marciemi: Glad we have two NO answers to that question. No need to fill out the explanation block.:thumb:

goldfarb1: Read the OP. No sign, no fence and no restricted access. "No Intent" to violate. Ticketed for a minor violation. Lawyer is always good in court but not worth the expense for this appearance.:biggrin: How does having a lawyer represent you help you with future background checks? Please cite the adjudication of the cases where the person charged did not know he/she was on private property. This would be a no brainer, admit and pay the fine or tell the judge I didn't even know I was on private property and accept the decision. It's not a jail sentence. OP's actions were involuntary.
 
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I just spent time reading trespassing laws and such and I believe I wont be guilty.

In order to be guilty of trespasss one must:

1. be on someone's property without permission (yes im guilty of this, I was there)

2. Remained there knowing that it was private property (Im not guilty of this)

In order to be convicted for trespassing both of these must be true. therefore Im innocent.

My question is: if im found not-guilty, do I still need to report that to the academy? because I feel like that would be rediculous. A police officer could just give out random tickets to ruin people's records.
 
AF6872 said:
Pulled the same.


"Have you ever been cited, arrested, convicted or fined for any violation of any law or ordinance? If yes, complete the section below." Block provided for explanation.

"FAILURE TO REPORT ANY SUCH INCIDENT MAY BE GROUNDS FOR WITHDRAWL OF AN OFFER OF AN APPOINTMENT OR MAY SUBSEQUENTLY RESULT IN DISSMISSAL FROM USNA"

Report everything, even the little things.
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Thank you AF6872!

goldfarb1 - it matters not if he was "guilty". It only matters that he was "cited".

The prudent thing to do here is, of course, report it. Let the Academy sort out what is trivial or not.
Just some advice from this "Mom" (which apparently means far less than advice from a "Dad" :eek:)
 
AF6872 said:
Lawyer is always good in court but not worth the expense for this appearance.:biggrin: How does having a lawyer represent you help you with future background checks?
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I'm with goldfarb. Get a lawyer. A 'not guilty' for tresspassing leaves a lot less for interpretation than an explanation that it was not posted, that kids did it all the time, that they were on their way to church, etc etc.
 
There seems to be a mis-conception that if you are not "found guilty" in a court of law for a violation (speeding, tresspassing, etc.) that was issued by your local police authority, then you will have nothing on your "reportable" local police record. This is 100% false. The local police department and the local court system are two seperate and distinct entities. They were designed that way for obvious reasons. Your local police department absolutely has the technology and will absolutely generate a computer report that a violation was written against you, reguardless of the dispostion in a court of law. A great majority of the time, the local police department is totally unaware of the final dispostions of the violations that they write. You can explain to the Academy, however, that your violation was dismissed or reduced in a court of law, which may be helpful....

But in the end, follow you conscience....there is no better guide in matters like this.....when in doubt, follow your conscience.......
 
Pasquinel said:
There seems to be a mis-conception that if you are not "found guilty" in a court of law for a violation (speeding, tresspassing, etc.) that was issued by your local police authority, then you will have nothing on your "reportable" local police record. This is 100% false. The local police department and the local court system are two seperate and distinct entities. They were designed that way for obvious reasons. Your local police department absolutely has the technology and will absolutely generate a computer report that a violation was written against you, reguardless of the dispostion in a court of law. A great majority of the time, the local police department is totally unaware of the final dispostions of the violations that they write. You can explain to the Academy, however, that your violation was dismissed or reduced in a court of law, which may be helpful....

But in the end, follow you conscience....there is no better guide in matters like this.....when in doubt, follow your conscience.......
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That's a very good explanation. I, for one, did not know that.
 
Police Violation

Nothing is as simple as a speeding ticket. When you received the citation. It should read at the very top. Example State of Maryland or Commonwealth of Kentucky or what ever. Somewhere, there is a record of this in a repository. Tell someone, because they will find out. It in your best interest.


RGK
 
Speaking as current mid, I'd say you have nothing to worry about. Small infractions such as unknowingly trespassing and minor speeding tickets won't prevent you from getting in (imo).

Look, I'm not going to give any information out, but there are people that I know that had infractions such as yours in high school and nothing happened to them, they're in, they're fine. I'd say report it to be completely open with them, but no sweat. Good luck :).
 
Think before hiring a rah rah attorney. The judge may not be pleased if you "lawyer up" on this. Every state and jurisidiction is different so most advice here, including this, should be taken with a grain of salt. Do you have a local attorney, DA or police you can call for advice?
Absolutely report it. You questioned when? If the court date is coming up, certainly less than 30 days, then I would recommend waiting until it was adjudicated. More than 90 days? I would let admissions know now. 30-60? Don't know. Is it possible to speak to the "victim" here? Maybe offer to post, at your time and expense, new signs for the landowner. Maybe they would write a letter of support for you. Would a judge perhaps dismiss the case for someone in your situation who went the extra mile? You bet, they are tired of dealing with deadbeats and excuses every day in front of their bench. Seeing an upstanding young citizen would make their day.
Play it straight with admissions and you'll be fine.
For others, remember it was posted here last year West Point was looking hard at any appointee with a traffic ticket for more than $250. Wasn't automatic repeal of the appointment but the candidate was reevaluated none the less. Whether or not a ticket/cite shows up on a records check is not the determining factor - it's whether it happened at all or not.
 
marciemi said:
"Have you ever been cited, arrested, convicted or fined for a violation of any law or ordinance?" Then "Description of incidents".

Sounds like "Cited" would be the one of concern to the OP assuming he doesn't end up with a fine.
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Probably a holdover from the days when the local constable would just shoo the kids away or grab them by the ear and haul them back to dad to handle. But rules are rules, regardless of what we may think of them. Report it and let the admin office have a chuckle.
 
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