Politics and academy life

[8th Wing Refugee]

In the ten years I've been doing MOC interviews, I don't think I've ever heard one of my fellow panelists ask anything close to a "political" question.
Interesting though when I reflect on my own process 40+ years ago - I distinctly remember that our state's socially liberal senator's panel (who were all his staff I believe) asked me about serving under a gay officer. Not a situation I had given a lot of thought to as a 17 year old from suburbia in 1979. My answer was that what people did in their private lives was their own business. It only occurred to me a number of years later that the answer I gave on that question might have made the difference in me receiving that Senator's nomination.

 

[Soldiergriz]

You have no way of knowing the truth of your situation. You cannot assume anything, unless the panel members looked directly at you and openly verbalized “you are not getting a nomination from us because we did not like one specific answer.”

The length of the interview could have been multiple candidates to get through. The lack of a nom may have simply been they evaluated all candidates on a wide range of criteria, and some aspect of your application was not as competitive.

This process is essentially a job interview for a role where there are always more qualified candidates than there is room in the class. I have applied for many jobs in my life and have often been told “no,” though in my own mind I was perfect for the job. Honestly, some still sting. I would find myself going back over the interview, speculating on whether ageism or sexism was involved (your own bias showed here, in a small way, when you assumed I was a “sir” - don’t sweat it, I appreciate your well-meant courtesy). I realized that was not fair to the interviewers, and stopped myself, coaching myself to focus on facts and not speculation rooted in my own imperfect views.

I recognize this looooooong wait has made you re-think everything. Do try to stop that, as it is fruitless. Here’s what we do know:

- You have put together a strong enough application that you are still in the game. You have made it through a tough obstacle course.
- You have a Presidential nom. That final slate of 100 appointments may not be fully resolved.
- The Supe has discretionary noms he controls. One might be bestowed on you, and an appointment charged to it.
- There could be a late NAPS or Foundation prep scholarship offer, if the issue is they like you, want you, but have a concern about your readiness to proceed direct to USNA.
- If you have gotten this far, clearly you have a strong application with good “stats” that will open other doors. That means you likely have excellent and viable alternatives lined up, which you are ready to execute, perhaps pursuing your officer’s commission via another route, while considering re-application.
- What’s done is done.

Limited time...maybe. But, they found the time to think about and then ask that question?

That question was complete rubbish.. has nothing to do with serving honorably regardless of the answer given. It never should have been asked.

How about just measuring the candidate against others with an eye to who will persevere and thrive in the best military ever assembled?

Thankful my son did not have to sit through that interview which was not worthy of selecting candidates.

 

[maggiesm70]

May I ask how you responded to the questions you thought were political?

If I were in your position, I would have just deflected like a politician. You can always just say, "Sir/Ma'am, I understand your question, but in all due respect, this is not in my lane" or "Sir/Ma'am, this is a divisive topic and I would respectfully not prejudge the situation without knowing all the facts."

I have really tried to let it go. It just doesn’t sit right with me. Nor my parents. But, they keep saying “trust the process. Have faith in our leaders at the Academy. I’m sure this isn’t their first rodeo.” I guess this long wait and now the waitlist has just gotten the best of me. Trying to listen to them and Captain MJ’s advice.

Q:How do you feel about the proposals to take down Confederate Statues?

A: Sir, the Confederate Statues are a symbol of when our country was divided. Although our Nation is not perfect and in some respects still divided, we are still the United States and have the democracy to enact the change voted by our population. I believe that the Confederate Statues should not be on public land. I understand those that believe it represents their “culture” as well as I understand those that believe it stands as a reminder of years of torment and enslavement. Regardless, it is a symbol that does not represent a UNITED States of America. It represents the Confederacy which is no longer an entity in our Country. While living overseas, I had the opportunity to visit many different countries who also had wars over differences of opinion. In no place did I see any statues erected of the divisive losing party. Germany - no Nazi statues. Romania, Poland, Slovakia, Solvaina, and the Czech Republic - nothing that is a reminder to the communist control. Nothing that was a symbol of the divisive times or anything that could offend out in public. Could you find them in museums, cemeteries, and on private land? Yes, but not on public property as expected since public land represents all people. I mean most countries out there got rid of the symbols of the opposing side after the resulting war. I do not think this situation is any different. ( I probably had a few “uhs” in there because I was taken back by the question, but stated respectful and honest.

Q: Then what about George Washington? He owned slaves, too.

A: Yes sir, he did. The statues erected for George Washington and many of our forefathers who owned slaves were erected in celebration of their efforts to win Liberty for our Nation against British rule and as a representation of their efforts in building a UNITED States of America. Not for trying to break it apart.

Q: So, then you are demonstrating situational ethics.

A: No, sir. Not situational ethics. I believe it was two different situations.

Q: Really? I disagree. Thank you for your time during this interview. Good luck with your appointment.

 

[Soldiergriz]

I have really tried to let it go. It just doesn’t sit right with me. Nor my parents. But, they keep saying “trust the process. Have faith in our leaders at the Academy. I’m sure this isn’t their first rodeo.” I guess this long wait and now the waitlist has just gotten the best of me. Trying to listen to them and Captain MJ’s advice.

Q:How do you feel about the proposals to take down Confederate Statues?

A: Sir, the Confederate Statues are a symbol of when our country was divided. Although our Nation is not perfect and in some respects still divided, we are still the United States and have the democracy to enact the change voted by our population. I believe that the Confederate Statues should not be on public land. I understand those that believe it represents their “culture” as well as I understand those that believe it stands as a reminder of years of torment and enslavement. Regardless, it is a symbol that does not represent a UNITED States of America. It represents the Confederacy which is no longer an entity in our Country. While living overseas, I had the opportunity to visit many different countries who also had wars over differences of opinion. In no place did I see any statues erected of the divisive losing party. Germany - no Nazi statues. Romania, Poland, Slovakia, Solvaina, and the Czech Republic - nothing that is a reminder to the communist control. Nothing that was a symbol of the divisive times or anything that could offend out in public. Could you find them in museums, cemeteries, and on private land? Yes, but not on public property as expected since public land represents all people. I mean most countries out there got rid of the symbols of the opposing side after the resulting war. I do not think this situation is any different. ( I probably had a few “uhs” in there because I was taken back by the question, but stated respectful and honest.

Q: Then what about George Washington? He owned slaves, too.

A: Yes sir, he did. The statues erected for George Washington and many of our forefathers who owned slaves were erected in celebration of their efforts to win Liberty for our Nation against British rule and as a representation of their efforts in building a UNITED States of America. Not for trying to break it apart.

Q: So, then you are demonstrating situational ethics.

A: No, sir. Not situational ethics. I believe it was two different situations.

Q: Really? I disagree. Thank you for your time during this interview. Good luck with your appointment.

All rubbish. These are not questions to measure ethical prowess or emotional intelligence. These questions were grenades... plain and simple.

 

[maggiesm70]

In the ten years I've been doing MOC interviews, I don't think I've ever heard one of my fellow panelists ask anything close to a "political" question.
Interesting though when I reflect on my own process 40+ years ago - I distinctly remember that our state's socially liberal senator's panel (who were all his staff I believe) asked me about serving under a gay officer. Not a situation I had given a lot of thought to as a 17 year old from suburbia in 1979. My answer was that what people did in their private lives was their own business. It only occurred to me a number of years later that the answer I gave on that question might have made the difference in me receiving that Senator's nomination.

Exactly! It was not a situation I feel I completely had pondered on, but I’m thankful that my parents require we have discussions about current events and they want us to ask questions and voice our options so that we can practice putting to words what we think and many times we can have heated discourse. Our parents encourage it because where else can you practice except at home? We had just had this conversation a few months ago, so I was thankful I had some kind of thought behind it. I have a younger sister that is so left my mom said she needs to go to Berkeley with all that. My father is really conservative and my mother is kind of in the middle. It’s funny, things can get heated. But I like that we can talk about our different views and agree to disagree. There are always going to be people on both extremes, my future job is to keep all of them safe and have the right to have an opinion.

 

[maggiesm70]

All rubbish. These are not questions to measure ethical prowess or emotional intelligence. These questions were grenades... plain and simple.

That’s what my mom said. She was sitting outside my door and of course listening She said it took everything in her not to barge through my door and confront this panel (ex-SWO with both daggers pull from her pin ready). She said she didn’t because she respected that I could handle it on my own without Mommy. She said regardless of what happens she was proud. So, in the end, if not getting an MOC nomination kept me out. I guess it is what it is. Can’t say I didn’t try.

 

[maggiesm70]

My son had congressional interviews with both parties - politics played no part in the nomination process at all.

Lucky.

 

[maggiesm70]

And for 99% of the MOCs it isn’t. I haven’t seen political party of a candidate or their family impact things yet. Does it happen? Sure, somewhere it does. Don’t assume that because you or your family vote one way it eliminates you. I have sat on multiple MOC panels, not once has that come up.

I’m finally part of the 1%

 

[cb7893]

I have really tried to let it go. It just doesn’t sit right with me. Nor my parents. But, they keep saying “trust the process. Have faith in our leaders at the Academy. I’m sure this isn’t their first rodeo.” I guess this long wait and now the waitlist has just gotten the best of me. Trying to listen to them and Captain MJ’s advice.

Q:How do you feel about the proposals to take down Confederate Statues?

A: Sir, the Confederate Statues are a symbol of when our country was divided. Although our Nation is not perfect and in some respects still divided, we are still the United States and have the democracy to enact the change voted by our population. I believe that the Confederate Statues should not be on public land. I understand those that believe it represents their “culture” as well as I understand those that believe it stands as a reminder of years of torment and enslavement. Regardless, it is a symbol that does not represent a UNITED States of America. It represents the Confederacy which is no longer an entity in our Country. While living overseas, I had the opportunity to visit many different countries who also had wars over differences of opinion. In no place did I see any statues erected of the divisive losing party. Germany - no Nazi statues. Romania, Poland, Slovakia, Solvaina, and the Czech Republic - nothing that is a reminder to the communist control. Nothing that was a symbol of the divisive times or anything that could offend out in public. Could you find them in museums, cemeteries, and on private land? Yes, but not on public property as expected since public land represents all people. I mean most countries out there got rid of the symbols of the opposing side after the resulting war. I do not think this situation is any different. ( I probably had a few “uhs” in there because I was taken back by the question, but stated respectful and honest.

Q: Then what about George Washington? He owned slaves, too.

A: Yes sir, he did. The statues erected for George Washington and many of our forefathers who owned slaves were erected in celebration of their efforts to win Liberty for our Nation against British rule and as a representation of their efforts in building a UNITED States of America. Not for trying to break it apart.

Q: So, then you are demonstrating situational ethics.

A: No, sir. Not situational ethics. I believe it was two different situations.

Q: Really? I disagree. Thank you for your time during this interview. Good luck with your appointment.

Catching this whole discussion late and won't bother to go back and read.

I only want to tell you that your answers show tremendous intelligence, maturity, forbearance and humility that is hard to find these days in anyone of any age. If my Army O-3 DS had started showing that at 17 or 18 instead of 22-23, I'd have more hair.

Wherever you do it, in or out of the military, you will become a fine leader if you aren't already.

Best of luck!

 

[A1Janitor]

Catching this whole discussion late and won't bother to go back and read.

I only want to tell you that your answers show tremendous intelligence, maturity, forbearance and humility that is hard to find these days in anyone of any age. If my Army O-3 DS had started showing that at 17 or 18 instead of 22-23, I'd have more hair.

Wherever you do it, in or out of the military, you will become a fine leader if you aren't already.

Best of luck!

We are a collection of states. Anyone can and should have opinions about statues. But what matters ultimately is the citizenry of a specific state to decide how they handle the issue. What noncitizen’s think about it is immaterial.

 

[maggiesm70]

We are a collection of states. Anyone can and should have opinions about statues. But what matters ultimately is the citizenry of a specific state to decide how they handle the issue. What noncitizen’s think about it is immaterial.

I can agree with that. But, what if it was erected without a vote or a vote to take it down was never proposed?

 

[maggiesm70]

Catching this whole discussion late and won't bother to go back and read.

I only want to tell you that your answers show tremendous intelligence, maturity, forbearance and humility that is hard to find these days in anyone of any age. If my Army O-3 DS had started showing that at 17 or 18 instead of 22-23, I'd have more hair.

Wherever you do it, in or out of the military, you will become a fine leader if you aren't already.

Best of luck!

Thank you. I appreciate it. I still have much to learn and time needed in practice to become a “fine leader”. I appreciate the 17 years my SWO parents have been able to provide... even when I was not always listening... some has made it into my subconscious. My mom says it was through osmosis and I gave her the grey hairs My father just makes me workout with him when I do something that he disagrees with and I still can’t swim as fast or lift as much as he can. Working on it.

 

[cb7893]

We are a collection of states. Anyone can and should have opinions about statues. But what matters ultimately is the citizenry of a specific state to decide how they handle the issue. What noncitizen’s think about it is immaterial.

I really couldn't care less what her opinion is on the matter.

She covered salient points of the issue and gave every indication that she would listen to what others have to say.

This is emotional intelligence of the highest degree.

 

[NavyHoops]

I’m finally part of the 1%

Honestly, I doubt it. I think it’s a terrible question and should not have been asked. I have sat on many MOC panels and we have found ways to push the candidates without asking something like this in a 15-20 minute interview. More than likely they were asking a controversial question to see how you could come up with an answer that is well articulated and how you defended it. See if you got flustered.

 

[Colorado_2025]

I have really tried to let it go. It just doesn’t sit right with me. Nor my parents. But, they keep saying “trust the process. Have faith in our leaders at the Academy. I’m sure this isn’t their first rodeo.” I guess this long wait and now the waitlist has just gotten the best of me. Trying to listen to them and Captain MJ’s advice.

Q:How do you feel about the proposals to take down Confederate Statues?

A: Sir, the Confederate Statues are a symbol of when our country was divided. Although our Nation is not perfect and in some respects still divided, we are still the United States and have the democracy to enact the change voted by our population. I believe that the Confederate Statues should not be on public land. I understand those that believe it represents their “culture” as well as I understand those that believe it stands as a reminder of years of torment and enslavement. Regardless, it is a symbol that does not represent a UNITED States of America. It represents the Confederacy which is no longer an entity in our Country. While living overseas, I had the opportunity to visit many different countries who also had wars over differences of opinion. In no place did I see any statues erected of the divisive losing party. Germany - no Nazi statues. Romania, Poland, Slovakia, Solvaina, and the Czech Republic - nothing that is a reminder to the communist control. Nothing that was a symbol of the divisive times or anything that could offend out in public. Could you find them in museums, cemeteries, and on private land? Yes, but not on public property as expected since public land represents all people. I mean most countries out there got rid of the symbols of the opposing side after the resulting war. I do not think this situation is any different. ( I probably had a few “uhs” in there because I was taken back by the question, but stated respectful and honest.

Q: Then what about George Washington? He owned slaves, too.

A: Yes sir, he did. The statues erected for George Washington and many of our forefathers who owned slaves were erected in celebration of their efforts to win Liberty for our Nation against British rule and as a representation of their efforts in building a UNITED States of America. Not for trying to break it apart.

Q: So, then you are demonstrating situational ethics.

A: No, sir. Not situational ethics. I believe it was two different situations.

Q: Really? I disagree. Thank you for your time during this interview. Good luck with your appointment.

Equivocating George Washington with Confederate statues and saying if you don’t it’s “situational ethics” is total BS. The Confederacy was a rebellion, George Washington was a founding father. Plus you didn’t even say “The statues should be taken down because they were slave owners.” It seemed he just wanted to argue, and that’s unfair. That question just pisses me off too. I’m glad you still got a nomination, and you did give a good answer. Good luck with your appointment, and I’m sorry that happened with your interview.

 

[maggiesm70]

Equivocating George Washington with Confederate statues and saying if you don’t it’s “situational ethics” is total BS. The Confederacy was a rebellion, George Washington was a founding father. Plus you didn’t even say “The statues should be taken down because they were slave owners.” It seemed he just wanted to argue, and that’s unfair. That question just pisses me off too. I’m glad you still got a nomination, and you did give a good answer. Good luck with your appointment, and I’m sorry that happened with your interview.

Thank you. I hope I see you there. I am on the waitlist. I only have a Presidential nom.

 

[Personal Organizer]

Just so you know, grenades like you experienced happen in the "real" world also. The first time I applied to veterinary school (back in the stone age, when I was one of 5 females applying), I was literally asked if I thought that the large number of women starting to apply to veterinary school would "ruin" the profession. Clearly, these women would only practice for a short time, get married and quit to raise children leaving the profession short handed and underpaid. I answered that his position was lacking forethought and insight, and proceeded to explain to him what "today's" women (1978) were capable of. I did not get into vet school THAT year, but I did the next year. Hang in there and always remember that, for every idjit like the one you encountered, there are at least 10 good people who will have your back when you need it most. Your SWO parents done good, you WILL prevail!