Possible Dis enrollment

A couple of things:
1) There is some dishonesty going on in the competition for these golden tickets. This has been statistically proven by West Point when it comes to pull-ups on the CFA. Candidates are reporting a number and then showing up to R-day without the ability to do one. It has gotten so bad that West Point will require videos for next year. I also know of a candidate who will be attending a service academy this summer who lied about sports team participation. Candidate claimed to have been on the track and cross country teams, claimed captain too. Candidate was on neither team - I know this because my child was on both teams and never saw the person participate in any event. Sad part is that the school signed off on the lie. Schools want to be able to say they sent a student to West Point, so there is an incentive to bend the truth.

2) There is a difference in the level of expectation of honesty and truth before you swear-in and after you swear-in. Cadets are expected not to lie and face serious consequences when they do. There was a time at West Point when a cadet, after returning from leave, would have to sign a statement that they did not get married or become responsible for a dependent. In a way this is a violation of the cadet's 5th Amendment rights. If the academy administration had no probable cause to whether a cadet violated the rules by getting married, then they really have no right to use honor against them to ask the question. Honor should not be used by the administration as an investigative tool to find violations. West Point realized this and no longer does something like this. As a cadet we were taught the following: if you come across a junior cadet with a bad haircut, you don't ask "Did you cut your own hair?". (In my time cadets could not cut their own hair) You inform the cadet that the hair is not to standard, why it is not to standard, and then remediation may be necessary. There is a lesson for the leader here, do not put subordinates in the position to fail. If a soldier was in trouble, it was not my job to make more for him, be instead deal with the issue at hand.

In conclusion, ROTC does not have the right to ask a blanket statement of whether you have committed a violation without any probable cause. If your DD is dis-enrolled she may have legal remedies.
 
Whether it's an application for a SA, athlete on the recruiting track, college applications, or that first real job application you will always have an blown up appropriation of ones self. I have seen this often on recruiting bios of players. Some laughable and just sad when you have hard core real facts.

Now is it really a lie....For example:
kid ran track and cross country freshman year and was asked to be captain for one meet while on the freshman squad. I am not for this type of embellishment/creative writing. The school doesn't know what are on the applications. They provide the LORs and transcripts. That's it.

As far as even seeking a legal resolution in the case of disenrollment...that's imo is bunch of sour grapes. Admition to guilt by far does no abdicate ones innocence.
 
Op , deep breath and tell your daughter the same. If I had to place a bet I would bet she stays in. In any event she can hold her head high and look ANYONE in the eye and know she did the right thing. Go hug her and tell her it will be ok no matter what, that is probably what she needs most right now and all that you can giver her given the situation. Best of luck !
 
If it it was only one time, and she is a good cadet, I would expect her to get a waiver. Although, I can only speak for Army ROTC. It is generally not a big deal if it was prior to 18 and experimental with marijuana. The only issue in her situation is she did it after the scholarship interview, and that begs the question why she did it knowing that she wanted to join an organization that generally has zero tolerance for drug use. However, if her PMS recommends waiver approval, she should be good to go.
 
The only issue in her situation is she did it after the scholarship interview, and that begs the question why she did it knowing that she wanted to join an organization that generally has zero tolerance for drug use.

I have asked her the same question. She said she had accepted the scholarship but was still unsure of what she wanted to do. Also, she said she did not want to try it but succumbed to peer pressure. When she showed up to the get together not knowing it was there and it was thrown in her face and told to try it by several people. She instantly regretted what she had done. It was 8 months after her interview and she wasn't in the ROTC state of mind at the point. We aren't trying to make excuses for her, she know she made a mistake.
 
I wish I could be she is 2000 miles away from home!
I will be praying for your family. What's done is done, no point regretting or thinking what if. Have peace & realize God has a plan for your daughter, sometimes we don't understand it now but soon we will. I have a feeling she will get a waiver but if no, it is not the end of the world. She will go on to greater & better things:)
 
I have two examples; they are from AF ROTC in large universities.

The first...a cadet was in his first semester and on a scholarship, and remembered he had tried MJ once as a high school sophomore. He was filling out some form that AF ROTC needed. He was honest and said "uh, I previously forgot to report this incident." The Colonel pulled him in, read him the riot act, counseled him, and then said "I'll see what I can do." He told the kids father that the young man was an excellent cadet, natural leader, etc., and he wanted him in ROTC.

The kid lost his scholarship. The reason he was given was "If you had mentioned this in the scholarship process it would most likely, but not guaranteed, have been waived. However...we don't know that and therefore you might not have been offered the scholarship; therefore, we are revoking your scholarship."

He was allowed to remain in ROTC and was eligible to compete for a sophomore scholarship.

The second kid...much the same situation except she wasn't on scholarship. LONG story short; she remained in ROTC and eventually graduated and is currently serving.

Honestly always; sometimes its painful, but its always the right thing to do. Kudo's to her!!

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
Beyond the lack of judgment in trying the illegal substance (yes, still federally banded), it shouldn't hurt in the long run. When the AROTC Cadet completes the CC Form 139-R (enrollment application), he/she is expected to truthfully disclose this type of information. There is generally a 6-months in the past, less than 6 times rule when the enrollment officer is determining eligibility. A waiver can be requested; after 6 months, the Cadet could contract without a waiver as I interpret it. Cadets have until the end of the semester to meet qualifications to contract under scholarship. After enrollment/contracting it is a different story. We expect zero illegal drug use at that time based on the expected adherence to the Army Values.
 
Her problem is because it was after her HSSP interview but before showing up to school. She is having to complete a statement and then it is going to headquarters for the decision. I believe her Colonel will recommend a waiver. She didn't think this would happen because she had heard others say 1 time use is deemed experimental. She just didn't realize since it was after her interview it is a whole different story.
 
So my DD submitted her statement and it will be forwarded to headquarters. In her statement she owned up to her mistake and made no excuses for her mistake. She just stated the facts of the incident. She also talked about what she has learned from this mistake. She also talked about integrity and that even if she could go back and change her form she would still tell the truth. She received 2 character statements from a HS teacher and Principal. Now we wait to see what headquarters decides. Hopefully they will see it as a kid who made a foolish mistake before she showed up to her detachment and see that she has learned from her mistake and has been a strong cadet since. Hopefully they let her continue her journey through AFROTC. Thanks everyone for you thoughts. I am hoping my next update will be a good one.
 
I have two examples; they are from AF ROTC in large universities.

The first...a cadet was in his first semester and on a scholarship, and remembered he had tried MJ once as a high school sophomore. He was filling out some form that AF ROTC needed. He was honest and said "uh, I previously forgot to report this incident." The Colonel pulled him in, read him the riot act, counseled him, and then said "I'll see what I can do." He told the kids father that the young man was an excellent cadet, natural leader, etc., and he wanted him in ROTC.

The kid lost his scholarship. The reason he was given was "If you had mentioned this in the scholarship process it would most likely, but not guaranteed, have been waived. However...we don't know that and therefore you might not have been offered the scholarship; therefore, we are revoking your scholarship."

He was allowed to remain in ROTC and was eligible to compete for a sophomore scholarship.

The second kid...much the same situation except she wasn't on scholarship. LONG story short; she remained in ROTC and eventually graduated and is currently serving.

Honestly always; sometimes its painful, but its always the right thing to do. Kudo's to her!!

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

It's probably because he used the excuse of just "remembered" and had "forgotten." Nobody forgets that they smoking pot.
 
Here is a update….Her Colonel recommended a waiver back in the beginning of May. We then heard from her Colonel that the Regional commander did not recommend a waiver so he told her at that time be prepared because usually when the regional commander doesn’t recommend a waiver it won’t go through but there was still a chance. He then said to expect and answer within 2 weeks. That was at the end of June. We waited 3 weeks to find out headquarters never received her paperwork from region so her Cadre had to fedex it to headquarters. We then got notified that she didn’t circle a “do not” on one piece of paperwork around July 17th. She fixed that and thinking “someone is looking at it we should hear back soon” Wrong! In the meantime she was deferred again for Lead Training. She was supposed to go to Max 2 and then was deferred to Max 7. 5 days before she was going to have to leave for Max 7 she was told she was deferred to next summer. UGH! Fast forward 2 more weeks and we still haven’t heard anything. We were just told that the Lawyers in headquarters have had her paperwork for 7 days and it usually takes 4 weeks to get an answer from the lawyers. School starts in 3 weeks and she was debating on whether to stay home and switch schools if she is disenrolled. Well that can’t be done now because if we don’t get an answer she is still contracted and has to return to school. This has been a LONG and stressful situation. We know she put herself in the situation but we didn’t think it would take this long. We are still hoping and praying that headquarters will let her continue her journey through AFROTC.
 
Thanks for the update. Hope it works out, at least in time to take any appropriate actions.
 
I have an update on my DD's situation. After a very long process it has worked itself out for the good. After returning to school she was told they were still working on her staying in with her keeping her scholarship. She then decided to change majors(big decision over the summer because we knew she would lose her scholarship) from a tech to non tech. She than informed her Colonel of this decision. That changed the process. They ended up dis enrolling her with no recoupment of scholarship money for the previous 2 years. They then had to get a waiver to re enroll her in the new 2 year program. She just received that waiver. She had to go through the Dodmerb process again and that is almost done (need a previous DQ waived again). She earns a spot to field training(this next summer) automatically with the new 2 year ROTC program. This has been a very long and difficult process but she has grown into a stronger/better person because of it. She has learned quite a bit from this process. She is happy with the decision to tell the truth(even if the outcome was not good). We are very thankful for all the help she received from her Cadre and the Regional Commander.
 
Thanks for the update. I hope that parents of HS students read this to understand the path they start on as a recent HS graduate can quickly change as a college cadet.
 
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