Pregnant?

[marvin7794]

I don't know why getting preggars is a question of honor. As someone already stated, she is still very capable of fulfilling her commitment to the Navy. It isn't like she was going to be a SEAL or a bubble head anyway, so the fact that she is pregnant will be minimally invasive to her ability to serve.
As for holding the rules intact, people need to get real and look at the situation like a human being. The position taken by Maximus reminds me of people at the academy who are hated and have no friends. We are all human. She had sex - like a human - and had a kid - like a human. She did nothing wrong. She didn't cheat on a test, steal from someones room or lie about drinking underage. Kudos to her for working the system. Every mid does what they have to do to get by. She skated and she rated. As for her being forced to admit her condition, coercion is a fairly common tactic in conduct cases (which this is).

 

[flieger83]

You know...I'm not a USNA grad, and not a USN officer. I'm from that rival out west.

But...in reviewing the USNA Honor Concept online:

"Midshipmen are persons of integrity: They stand for that which is right.
They tell the truth and ensure that the full truth is known. They do not lie.
They embrace fairness in all actions. They ensure that work submitted as their own is their own, and that assistance received from any source is authorized and properly documented. They do not cheat. They respect the property of others and ensure that others are able to benefit from the use of their own property. They do not steal."

I don't see how this could be considered a violation of the honor concept.

1. She did not lie.
2. It was her work (well, shared anyway)
3. She stood for that which was right; she didn't lie, she reported it and was willing to accept the consequences.

Sounds like an upstanding young lady and fine candidate to wear the gold braid of an ensign.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

 

[usna1985]

I think folks are confusing honor and behavior. There are many serious conduct violations that are not honor violations -- DUI, assault, rape, goig AWOL, etc. One could argue that you aren't an "honorable" person if you commit a serious conduct violation (and/or violate the law), but that's a figurative use of the word.

You get into trouble under honor code if you lie, cheat, or steal. Lying about a conduct offense can get you in double trouble (which raises the whole concept of using your honor against you, but that's for another discussion).

They explained at length about honor probation. As Mombee or someone else above stated, the view is that not everyone comes to USNA as strong in honor as we'd all like -- could be based on their community or family situation or other circumstances.

In certain situations, a mid may be given the opportunity to remediate. This is a complex process that involves conduct consequences (demerits, loss of liberty, etc.) as well as working directly with an O-5 or O-6 doing readings, writing papers, meeting, etc. The senior officer determines if and when the mid is sufficiently remediated.

Also, the approach taken toward a 2/c or 1/C -- or a repeat offender -- may not be as "forgiving" as that taken with a more junior mid. It is an individualized determination made by the Dant and Supe.

 

[CurrentMid]

This is not an honor or conduct issue. She followed Mid Regs. There is nothing in the mid regs that says you can not have sex, nor become a parent. There are regs about with whom you can have a relationship, but that is not the issue here. Had she gone and got married, then there would be a conduct issue as Midshipmen shall not marry or be married.

Just because this does not fit your moral compass does not mean that she has done anything wrong. If it were your daughter would you disown her? Would you not welcome the child into your family?


COMDTMIDNINST 5400.6L
2.40. PARENTHOOD AND PREGNANCY
1. Overview
a. Parenthood is defined as having legal, financial or custodial obligations for a child or children, as determined by court adjudication, self-admission, or other evidence. Any Midshipman who becomes pregnant, causes the pregnancy of another, or incurs the obligations of parenthood, must report the condition to their Chain of Command. Midshipmen who become pregnant and choose not to resign will be allowed to go on a leave of absence of no more than one year. Midshipmen who are pregnant or have incurred the obligations of parenthood and who fail to resign or request a leave of absence will be separated.


b. Midshipmen shall not:
(1) Engage in sexual misconduct as defined in Section 2.30.1.*
(2) Hold hands while in uniform.
(3) Exchange backrubs at USNA or while in uniform.
(4) Sit or lay on the same bed at USNA.
(5) Display inappropriate affection in public.
(6) Marry or be married.


*2.30. MIDSHIPMAN - OFFICER RELATIONSHIPS
1. Requirements
a. Personal relationships between Midshipmen and officers that are unduly familiar because they do not respect differences in grade, rank, or position of authority and are prejudicial to good order and discipline are prohibited.
b. First and second-class Midshipmen may maintain preexisting close personal relationships with newly commissioned officers temporarily assigned to the Naval Academy following graduation unless the officer is in the Midshipman's chain-of-command.

Lets not discredit her. As pointed out she will serve honorably.

 

[Luigi59]

This is not an honor or conduct issue. She followed Mid Regs. There is nothing in the mid regs that says you can not have sex, nor become a parent.

But there is a Mid Reg that states.....

“Midshipmen who are pregnant or have incurred the obligations of parenthood and who fail to resign or request a leave of absence will be separated,”

She neither resigned nor did she request the leave of absence. She graduated and was commissioned, the first known such case in the 33 years women have been admitted to the school.

 

[mombee]

I agree 100% that it was not an honor offense. My previous comment was directed at a side track the thread was taking in that the Academy has also recently commenced retaining some of those Midshipmen convicted of honor violations.

 

[HuskiesMama]

I'm not going to search for the source right now, but one article I read on this situation indicated that she came forward, and requested a WAIVER to the requirement that she take the leave of absence. The leave is basically intended to allow for the birth of the child (and probably either offering the child for adoption or otherwise reassigning parental responsibility to someone else, as a mid cannot have a dependent). Since she was 2 weeks away from commissioning, the leave of absence would be moot.

She was granted the waiver.

FWIW, the Academy does not turn a blind eye entirely to (even-consensual) sexual relations. Two firsties in our mid's company got some hefty restrictions as a result of some inappropriate behavior.

This is entirely different. She took responsibility for her actions, requested a waiver based on the specifics of her case, was granted the waiver and has moved on. Other Naval Officers will surely become parents while serving. End of story to me.

 

[Luigi59]

Personally I think it was a good call on the part of the Academy and the Navy.

So this Mid Reg....

“Midshipmen who are pregnant or have incurred the obligations of parenthood and who fail to resign or request a leave of absence will be separated,”

....is not really a regulation, but merely a suggestion.

Gotcha.

 

[SteveHolt243]

FWIW, the Academy does not turn a blind eye entirely to (even-consensual) sexual relations. Two firsties in our mid's company got some hefty restrictions as a result of some inappropriate behavior.

Well that's frat (I'm assuming - you imply they're two mids in the same company.) So not really the same issue. The Academy does not generally punish you for having consensual sex outside the general military bounds of fraternization.

 

[SteveHolt243]

So this Mid Reg....

“Midshipmen who are pregnant or have incurred the obligations of parenthood and who fail to resign or request a leave of absence will be separated,”

....is not really a regulation, but merely a suggestion.

Gotcha.

You're ignoring half the regulation and the manner in which conduct cases are handled. The regulation reads essentially that the midshipman will work with the Academy to find a solution. If unwilling to do that, then they will get separated. The waiver basically demonstrates that the leave would be stupid and unnecessary, and cause more trouble for the Navy and the couple than its worth, but the woman did what she was supposed to and worked through it with the chain of command. Moreover, there was the precedent of three males receiving the same waiver. Are you seriously telling me you would have separated her and made her pay it back?

 

[CurrentMid]

tpg - you are correct. The Mid Regs do start with:

3. Information
a. Midshipman Regulations are supplementary to U.S. Navy Regulations, 1990, and U.S. Naval Academy Regulations, Part I. Members of the Brigade of Midshipmen and all personnel subordinate to the Commandant of Midshipman shall comply with Midshipman Regulations.
b. Nothing in these regulations should be construed as taking priority over sound judgment or doing the right thing. Every situation is not covered. There may be situations where good judgment will be the only regulation.

She did do the right thing - she came forward and found a solution that worked both for the Navy - i.e. serving her obligation and for her i.e. serving her obligation to the Navy and being a parent. Really it is a win win solution for all involved. And if you will for the taxpayer who invested in her.

She will serve her country honorably. Maybe we could all respect that decision and end this thread. Yes, this would be merely a suggestion...

 

[usna1985]

Maybe we could all respect that decision and end this thread.

I tend to agree that the thread has outworn its usefullness. If folks want to continue this particular topic, please take it to either the "Off-Topic" or "Academy/Millitary News" thread.