Presidential Graduation Speaker

[2013Parent]

Don't think JDog's post was tongue in cheek. He is a proud, intelligent, passionate and articulate alum......

Oh Boy, at the risk of bringing a knife to a gunfight, here goes............

Relative to Jasperdog's post:

1 - It has to do with, on the first page of the thread, it quickly became clear, for about the 100th time, in my minuscule two year exposure to KP, that it and everything about it is thought of by the general population as the red headed step child of the all Service Academies. So, much so that our Commander in Chief elects to follow the same footsteps and single it/us out as the ONLY one of the five that does not deserve to be included on the SA graduation speaker rotation.

2. Totally agree he used the proper nomenclature

3. We all agree....got it.... I just think (and acknowledge that I am alone and this is unpopular) that it would be better to stop lumping KP in with the other four under the grand of umbrella of the term "Federal Service Academy".......It's mission is too different, it's midshipmen are treated too differently and it causes confusion. Perhaps it could lumped into the same category as the post graduate, Federally funded Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences.....that too is a "Service Academy" but we rarely hear about it as a Service Academy......it too is a college operated by our Federal Government. The unfortunate fact is that, for all practical purposes, in our country and most others, the term "Service Academy" is a synonym for "Military Academy"......which we ALL agree KP is not.....refer to number 2, I know the proper nomenclature.

4. Sam Aca mentioned out that during his exploration of which Academy to attend, the commissioning aspects of KP were pointed out. I will submit it was "pointed out" to my DS as well. Very much pointed out. A big selling point. Much marketing and salesmanship about it. If I heard it once, I heard it six times during discussion with admissions, alum, state reps, etc. about "when you graduate, if you want to go active duty, you have your pick of which branch of the military to go in to. They will be glad to have you, and one of the key reasons is they did not have to pay for your education....both academically and regimental"......that quote is real and without exception was a clear and loud and consistently expressed message passed on to my DS, and his family. You can take that to the bank. Now....just now..... I hear that ah, never mind, not true, you will be treated like every ROTC candidate, nothing special, need to have a certain GPA just to go active duty etc. etc.......please know this does not matter. DS is straight deck, interested in the Maritime business......but, I gotta say if that were not the case, these "new developments, to us" would be quite negative.

I also agree with much of the last paragraph. KP is different, it is unique, it does have great strengths, it's graduates are not insecure, etc. etc. For that reason it needs to be separated from the other four Military Service Academies.....from my earlier post:

Please, by now, most of us know the "becauses" for all the above. It's just time to call this what it is. KP is in a TOTALLY different category and that category should be celebrated and not muddled up by lumping these hardworking midshipmen with their brothers and sisters at the Military Academies, then loudly proclaim KP is one of our five Federal Service Academies........except the federal service is different, much different. Oh.

 

[KPMarineopsdad]

All kings Point graduates are required to accept a commission as an officer in the U.S. Military either as an Ensign in the Navy Reserve or on active duty. I think that this requirement is what makes KP a "service academy." If something happens during your stay and you are declared "not commisionable" you could be disenrolled.

 

[sprog]

All kings Point graduates are required to accept a commission as an officer in the U.S. Military either as an Ensign in the Navy Reserve or on active duty. I think that this requirement is what makes KP a "service academy." If something happens during your stay and you are declared "not commisionable" you could be disenrolled.

I had thought of that, but I'm not sure I buy it. It's the US Merchant Marine Academy, not the US Naval Reserve Academy. It isn't operated by the Department of the Navy, as they have their own academy. I think most alums believe the identity of the school to be associated with the proud maritime tradition in this country as opposed to the Naval Reserve (maybe with the Naval Reserve or other parts of the Armed Forces, but the maritime industry is first). A proud legacy it is indeed...I mean WWII merchant mariners are even afforded veteran status by VA because of their contributions and sacrifices as members of the shipping community during wartime (it took a long time for that to happen). So even with the Naval Reserve obligation, I have to think that the identity of the school is with the maritime industry. Just like the identity of USMA is with the Army.

I mean, all people who graduate from an ROTC program take a commission in the active or reserve component of a branch of the Armed Forces. They don't graduate from a "Service" Academy. Each military branch has its own SA (with the exception of USMC which shares USNA with the Navy).

The "Service" of USMMA has to be the Merchant Marine, but that isn't what most people think of when they think of the term. As I noted, the MM isn't a single organization. Indeed, it contains private and government entities, and is civilian in makeup. Congress tells us it's a "Service Academy," so I won't argue that it isn't; however, I'm just pointing out that such terminology can be confusing and might be what some of the earlier posts were addressing.

 

[KPDADTX57]

Here is a thought to get you past the systematics of this discussion. Ask the President's staff to tell the families of Lt. Frank Toner or Lt. Will Donnell that they did not attend a "Service Academy". It is called the Regiment of Midshipmen for a reason and to not recognize the USMMA as a Federal Service Academy worthy of being on the Presidential speaking rotation is simply put a slap in the face. On the other hand most of the current midshipmen and alumni probably do not lose any sleep over it.

 

[sprog]

Here is a thought to get you past the systematics of this discussion. Ask the President's staff to tell the families of Lt. Frank Toner or Lt. Will Donnell that they did not attend a "Service Academy". It is called the Regiment of Midshipmen for a reason and to not recognize the USMMA as a Federal Service Academy worthy of being on the Presidential speaking rotation is simply put a slap in the face. On the other hand most of the current midshipmen and alumni probably do not lose any sleep over it.

I'm not arguing that it isn't a Service Academy. Congress says it is, so it is. My point is that the term can be confusing, and some of the other posters have pointed that out as well.

 

[KPDADTX57]

correction and apologies - Lt. William J. Donnelly, IV

 

[jasperdog]

Here is a thought to get you past the systematics of this discussion. Ask the President's staff to tell the families of Lt. Frank Toner or Lt. Will Donnell that they did not attend a "Service Academy". It is called the Regiment of Midshipmen for a reason and to not recognize the USMMA as a Federal Service Academy worthy of being on the Presidential speaking rotation is simply put a slap in the face. On the other hand most of the current midshipmen and alumni probably do not lose any sleep over it.

KPDADTX57: Thank you for saying something articulate, polite and professional. 2013Parent - likewise though my post was indeed mainly tongue in cheek, I thank you for the thoughtful articulate response to both SamAca10 and sprog.

SamAca10: you get a "pass" you're young and curious, etc.

sprog: As 2013Parent has now an unjustified high opinion of my posts and I don't want to create cause for them to be lowered, I'll just say I find your statements, smug, uniformed, and ill-considered. I would write more but the words that would come onto the screen would only debase me and lower me to the level of ignorance I find your post to display. I only thank KPDADTX57 and 2013Parent for saving me the embarrassment they would cause me and other graduates, and students of my Alma Mater. Instead of writing any more, I'll just point out one thing before I continue sit here and "simmer" as I irate enough to spite nows as I think of the feelings and thoughts that went through my mind as I watched Frankie Toner's family and young widow conduct themselves with such dignity as he was interred at Arlington. Interestingly, the USMMA is the only Federal Service Academy that has earned the right to carry a Battle Standard despite being merely a Federal Service Academy vice a Military Academy; please think about that before you bother to reply to this post - thank you.

 

[kp2001]

What "Service"

The question was asked what "service" USMMA represents:

That would be the U.S. Maritime Service aka the Merchant Marines.

 

[KPDADTX57]

With all due respect KP2001 - although this was indeed a question in this thread, it was not really the question even though the discussion trailed into a delineation between military service, federal service and maritime service. The original question was why did the presidential staff decide to not have the President speak at the USMMA graduation this year? Just trying to take us back to the original topic.

 

[2013Parent]

With all due respect KP2001 - although this was indeed a question in this thread, it was not really the question even though the discussion trailed into a delineation between military service, federal service and maritime service. The original question was why did the presidential staff decide to not have the President speak at the USMMA graduation this year? Just trying to take us back to the original topic.

How many times in it's history has KP had a sitting president speak at graduation?

 

[KP2010]

Wow I never knew my simple thread would explode into this lively discussion. But I do enjoy a good discussion. Therefore I will chime in

Jasperdog-as always your logic is sound. Pretty dead on. The only thing to correct is Bush spoke at the class of 2006 graduation not 2010 although that would have been pretty cool at my graduation.

2013Parent I agree with you, it has flashed into my mind as to why KP is always kinda pushed aside when it comes to getting honors from the President. My main reason for posting was because I was told it would be a more frequent thing because Andy Card (Bush Chief of Staff and former KP attendee) along with other Alumni in Gov't raised the issue with Congress and we were told after Bush came that we were on the rotation. However I know how KP rumors circulate and what someone thinks is fact is merely rumor so I wasn't heartbroken when I heard the Pres wasn't coming to graduation this year.

Now on the discussion about if KP is military or whatnot. Bottom line it is a Maritime Institution BUT I would consider KP a melting pot (perhaps the best analogy for america) as we get people from all corners of the country who come in and then graduate doing just about anything and everything under the sun including serving in every branch of the military and if you're not panamanian you are in the Navy Reserve by default therefore EVERYONE serves. As for the Service Academy title. Correct me if I'm wrong Jasperdog but the reason for our existence is because if God forbid a global war broke out we need Americans to man the Merchant Ships in order to bring the goods to our troops. If this happens myself and my classmates will be called up if the need arises to man these ships. If your at SUNY or another Maritime School you are not obligated in any way to go into harms way...we are (although I would imagine our sister Maritime schools wouldn't hesitate to do their part). So that is our reason for existence.

Basically my thing is I would like to see KP get some recognition. I am proud to be a Kings Pointer. Its a title I'll wear my entire life with pride. And I believe KP is a school worthy of recognition. If you have the title of United States in your name you are supposed to stand for something much bigger than the school itself. And thats the United States of America. I don't think our status should be considered less than anyone else. I believe in equality and thats what I believe KP deserves. And with that I conclude my essay on KP.

 

[KP2010]

P.S. 2013Parent-the answer to your question is KP has had only 1 sitting President come to the academy. President Bush was not only the first sitting President to speak at the academy graduation but the first sitting President to visit the academy.

 

[2013Parent]

P.S. 2013Parent-the answer to your question is KP has had only 1 sitting President come to the academy. President Bush was not only the first sitting President to speak at the academy graduation but the first sitting President to visit the academy.

Totally UNACCEPTABLE......if true.......perhaps it is time for some recognition other than 2014's........

As a veteran, as an American citizen, as a parent of a midshipman, (a midshipman at the FIRST U.S. Service Academy to admit women, a midshipman at the ONLY U.S. Service Academy to be permitted and honored to fly a battle standard, a midshipman at a Service Academy that provides educated and qualified Commissioned Officers to all branches of the U.S. Military and USMS and NOAA) ...... I submit it is time to make a change.......past time.

 

[2009KPer]

How many times in it's history has KP had a sitting president speak at graduation?

One time, and one time only.

June 2006.

 

[LarryKoopa]

June 2006, thats the year the 6' 8", 285lb Midshipman bear hugged President Bush at USMMA commencement. This guy probably scared the bejesus out of the Secret Service (and Bush.)

http://www.thehikinghugger.com/huggingthepresident.html

 

[cmakin]

The "Service" is the United States Maritime Service, established in 1938.

 

[sprog]

sprog: As 2013Parent has now an unjustified high opinion of my posts and I don't want to create cause for them to be lowered, I'll just say I find your statements, smug, uniformed, and ill-considered. I would write more but the words that would come onto the screen would only debase me and lower me to the level of ignorance I find your post to display. I only thank KPDADTX57 and 2013Parent for saving me the embarrassment they would cause me and other graduates, and students of my Alma Mater. Instead of writing any more, I'll just point out one thing before I continue sit here and "simmer" as I irate enough to spite nows as I think of the feelings and thoughts that went through my mind as I watched Frankie Toner's family and young widow conduct themselves with such dignity as he was interred at Arlington. Interestingly, the USMMA is the only Federal Service Academy that has earned the right to carry a Battle Standard despite being merely a Federal Service Academy vice a Military Academy; please think about that before you bother to reply to this post - thank you.

Stay classy, San Diego.

I am very sorry that two Armed Forces officers who were USMMA graduates died in combat. I'm sorry when any person dies in the service of this nation. What does that have to do with my posts or the posts from several others on here? Most of the people who have died in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars didn't even go to college, must less a Service Academy. My alma mater, VMI, has had 10 military members killed in action in those conflicts (two of whom I knew personally). While those men gave "service" (with a lower-case "s"), they clearly didn't go to a "Service Academy" (with a capital "S"). There is a distinction between the noun and the proper noun in this discussion.

Indeed, as Kp2001 reiterated, the question raised in this thread (off-topic from the OP as it might be) is which "Service," with a capital "S," is represented by USMMA. I opined that this is the Merchant Marine (not the USNR). Kp2001 (an alum and former mariner/current AD Naval officer) agreed, and I stated that this is confusing as most people consider the "Services" of this nation to be the branches of the Armed Forces. Note that I said it was confusing, not that the designation of the MM as a "Service" was unjustified. You'll also note that I praised the history of the MM and especially those who served in WWII (who earned the battle standard). Those men have rightfully earned veteran status after many years.

I'm not going to respond to your attacks against me.

 

[2013Parent]

Funny how some things really get under my skin.....this is one of them.....

In my feeble attempt to respond in Acta non Verba fashion, and follow the appropriate chain of command (for me anyway).....I just fired off three email letters....one to each of my U.S. Senators, and one to my House of Rep member (each of their official websites communicated this was the preferred method to contact them)

Two of them nominated my little boy......one was not in office at the time........

I asked for their help in getting the President's position on why his office openly demonstrates a "different" level of interest toward KP than it's four other Service Academy counterparts.......we'll see.

 

[SamAca10]

a Service Academy that provides educated and qualified Commissioned Officers to all branches of the U.S. Military and USMS and NOAA).

And herein lies the point that I think sprog is getting at. What is Service does MMA represent? The Merchant Marine is a mostly run civilian force, correct? While some graduates might serve, why call it a Service Academy?

 

[NCDSDad]

All KP grads will 'serve'

And herein lies the point that I think sprog is getting at. What is Service does MMA represent? The Merchant Marine is a mostly run civilian force, correct? While some graduates might serve, why call it a Service Academy?

Because, while most KP grads will work in the merchant marines (private sector), they will also concurrently serve our country in the US Naval Reserves. So, if all KP grads serve our country, how can USMMA be considered anything other than a Service Academy?