Question about candidacy after NASS

[justdoit19]

^^ agreed. My apologies for speaking when I didn’t need too. I wanted the best answer for the thread and saying something controversial often motivates people to answer your question with the best information possible, like A6E in this case. Thank you for the help, I will try to not make statements like this again.

It’s FINE to speak. It’s not ok (IMO) to speak as if you have FACTS vs OPINION. You held yourself out as factual. That does a disservice to readers and should be avoided.

Additionally, ‘saying something controversial’ to motivate others to speak is inappropriate. What you said wasn’t ‘controversial’. It was incorrect information, that you stated was fact.

And saying something controversial with the intent to motivate others (aka ‘stir the pot’) is not productive. Especially when you are stirring it with incorrect information.

No one is saying to not speak. But if you are opining, it’s important to not state your opinions as factual.

Welcome to the forums, I see you are a new user. Great (and knowledgeable) people here!

 

[thk24]

^^ agreed. My apologies for speaking when I didn’t need too. I wanted the best answer for the thread and saying something controversial often motivates people to answer your question with the best information possible, like A6E in this case. Thank you for the help, I will try to not make statements like this again.

It’s FINE to speak. It’s not ok (IMO) to speak as if you have FACTS vs OPINION. You held yourself out as factual. That does a disservice to readers and should be avoided.

Additionally, ‘saying something controversial’ to motivate others to speak is inappropriate. What you said wasn’t ‘controversial’. It was incorrect information, that you stated was fact.

And saying something controversial with the intent to motivate others (aka ‘stir the pot’) is not productive. Especially when you are stirring it with incorrect information.

No one is saying to not speak. But if you are opining, it’s important to not state your opinions as factual.

Welcome to the forums, I see you are a new user. Great (and knowledgeable) people here!

Thanks, been viewing the forum for a while and finally decided to join. Felt like I provided good comments until this post. Obviously facts only come from admissions and I am not trying to sell myself as them. Will rectify that in the future. Also there are clearly people more knowledgeable than me on here and I am thankful that you all could help fix my mistake.

 

[JohnOxford]

In regards to that, the points been made that when Admissions reviews you, simply attending NASS has no impact on your acceptance.

That being said,

I've heard the detailers give / can give reviews or AOR's or something along those lines at the end of or after NASS is completed for particularly bad / good candidates at NASS. Is that true? And does that have any marginal impact on the application process.

Does being awarded Iron Man / Iron Woman on the Awards Night at the end of NASS contribute anything? ( Other than the fact that you likely have a perfect CFA )

Is there anything at NASS, in terms of events or people to speak to that you would be able to interact with to gain something that admissions would notice?

Not sure if these warrant a separate thread, but it does detract the argument from "Does going to NASS help" to "Does doing specific things at NASS help"

 

[THParent]

...I've heard the detailers give / can give reviews or AOR's or something along those lines at the end of or after NASS is completed for particularly bad / good candidates at NASS...

I wish I had a nickel for every time I have read "I've heard..." on these forums. Don't put stock in rumors.

Does being awarded Iron Man / Iron Woman on the Awards Night at the end of NASS contribute anything? ( Other than the fact that you likely have a perfect CFA )

No, and nobody has a perfect CFA. Anyone who can chuck a basketball 102'-0" usually can't run a 5:20 mile.

Is there anything at NASS, in terms of events or people to speak to that you would be able to interact with to gain something that admissions would notice?

Don't overthink this. Just go to NASS, participate, and have a good time.

Not sure if these warrant a separate thread, but it does detract the argument from "Does going to NASS help" to "Does doing specific things at NASS help"

No.

 

[MidCakePa]

You know the scenario where some authoritative type stands there and says, “Look to your left, look to your right. Only one of you will be here in [xx period of time].”

When DD attended NASS, she said the person to her left and the person to her right were awesome, amazing, accomplished— absolute shoo-ins for offer of appointment. Neither of them got in.

 

[usna1985]

the fact of the matter is there is hardly anyone who goes to NASS and then finishes out the USNA application process who doesn't get an appointment.

Won't repeat what the above posters have stated so well. Will add two things. First, association is not correlation. Even if it were true that a higher percentage of NASS applicants receive appointments than those who don't attend NASS (and it's not), that doesn't necessarily mean that NASS helps. For example, it could well be that those who attend NASS are more highly motivated to complete their applications compared to the general population of applicants. If you don't complete your application, you won't receive an appointment. So, there could be association between the two but not correlation or causation. Also, b/c NASS is a recruiting tool, it could be that a high percentage of applicants come from underrepresented areas and we all know that a well-qualified applicant from North Dakota has an easier time than a well-qualified applicant from northern VA or southern MD because there are fewer well qualified candidates in ND.

Second, the reason this site was established years ago was to put out accurate information regarding SAs and related topics. This occurred because another site (which the old timers here frequented) got it wrong so often. People guessed. People offered their opinions as fact. The result was unnecessary anxiety. Voila, this site was established and the long-time posters do our very best to put out the most accurate information we can.

Everyone is free to offer an opinion. But if it's that, or if you're guessing, or if you're attributing what happens at one SA to another, QUALIFY your comments. For example, "It's my opinion that NASS helps you get into USNA," or "This is how it works at USAFA, but I'm not sure it's the same at USNA." That allows people to decide how much weight to give to your statement.

 

[TexasAggie204]

the fact of the matter is there is hardly anyone who goes to NASS and then finishes out the USNA application process who doesn't get an appointment.

Won't repeat what the above posters have stated so well. Will add two things. First, association is not correlation. Even if it were true that a higher percentage of NASS applicants receive appointments than those who don't attend NASS (and it's not), that doesn't necessarily mean that NASS helps. For example, it could well be that those who attend NASS are more highly motivated to complete their applications compared to the general population of applicants. If you don't complete your application, you won't receive an appointment. So, there could be association between the two but not correlation or causation. Also, b/c NASS is a recruiting tool, it could be that a high percentage of applicants come from underrepresented areas and we all know that a well-qualified applicant from North Dakota has an easier time than a well-qualified applicant from northern VA or southern MD because there are fewer well qualified candidates in ND.

Second, the reason this site was established years ago was to put out accurate information regarding SAs and related topics. This occurred because another site (which the old timers here frequented) got it wrong so often. People guessed. People offered their opinions as fact. The result was unnecessary anxiety. Voila, this site was established and the long-time posters do our very best to put out the most accurate information we can.

Everyone is free to offer an opinion. But if it's that, or if you're guessing, or if you're attributing what happens at one SA to another, QUALIFY your comments. For example, "It's my opinion that NASS helps you get into USNA," or "This is how it works at USAFA, but I'm not sure it's the same at USNA." That allows people to decide how much weight to give to your statement.

Agree 100% with what you say here, but there is one fact that you may be missing. Sometimes people hear a bit of misinformation from an individual in a position of authority from a SA (let's say from a Field Liaison, or an officer on the admissions team, etc.) and they believe what they're being told (even thought it might not be 100% true). Believe me, I personally have experienced this and, even though I know it may not be 100% factual information, I want to to either believe it or completely discount it dependent on how it "fits in" with my DS plans to attend an academy. This conundrum is not exclusive to the SA admissions process...it's the same for those applying to regular old "civilian" colleges as well. In general terms, the admission system is the system; until it isn't. And there are plenty of examples of when it isn't that could make a person believe what they heard to be factual or not. Just because the SA's are feeders to the US Military, doesn't mean that every person affiliated with the process is singing from the same hymnal. Remember: "there's always one guy who doesn't get the message".

Oh by the way, there is no such thing as "unnecessary anxiety"...it's what drives people like me (and probably most of the members of this forum)

 

[MidCakePa]

+1 to @TexasAggie204. Keep in mind also that people hear what they want to hear. And they'll. -- often subconsciously -- try to square their circumstances with a desired narrative.

For example, "I got into NASS and then into USNA, so yes, going to NASS makes you a better candidate." Or, " I didn't get into NASS and I got into USNA, so no, NASS has nothing to do with your chances of admission."

At that point, best to listen to the authorities. And they say that NASS is an outreach tool, a PR lever. And that any correlation is coincidental but not causal. Everyone will come up with a rationale for their outcome, and some will be true, some not. In the end, what happens happens.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

I've heard the detailers give / can give reviews or AOR's or something along those lines at the end of or after NASS is completed for particularly bad / good candidates at NASS. Is that true? And does that have any marginal impact on the application process.

Does being awarded Iron Man / Iron Woman on the Awards Night at the end of NASS contribute anything? ( Other than the fact that you likely have a perfect CFA )

Is there anything at NASS, in terms of events or people to speak to that you would be able to interact with to gain something that admissions would notice?

"I have heard" ...yes, here, that Detailers do write an eval on NASS participants. Assuming that is true, I would expect that Admissions sees them. The amount of weight they are given is unknown . Keep in mind that the Detailers are Midshipmen themselves (I think 3/C), and doing evals is new and a training opportunity for them. I suspect that any Midshipman eval is unlikely to keep a good candidate out, or get a bad candidate in. That being said, if you go to NASS and are a complete screwup, ie. bad attitude, complete jerk, etc, it's not going to help. (On the other hand, I would expect that any bad traits exhibited are also going to reflect in your Math/English teacher evaluation and perhaps the BGO interview).

I would also expect that the eval is the only feedback that Admissions has on a particular candidates participation, in other words, unless noted in the eval -- Admissions wouldn't know (or care) who the Ironman, and unless you are "that guy" asking multiple questions (which can be good or bad) during the Admissions brief, they won't know one particular candidate from another.

Not sure if these warrant a separate thread, but it does detract the argument from "Does going to NASS help" to "Does doing specific things at NASS help"

This topic has been beaten to death on this Forum, with good information and bad.

 

[A6E Dad]

this is correct, there is in fact an evaluation done by the detailer at NASS, and that eval is included in the Admissions board brief - it is along the lines of an overall score (ie. 1-5) and a one line statement. as with all the other things in the candidate's record, the board members can click on a link and see the full eval that was submitted. the same applies to letters of rec, personal statement, etc etc. As posted above, extreme outliers (really great candidates, or really big jerks) can get noticed, but those same people will likely get noticed elsewhere as well (bgo interview, etc)

in terms of impact on the overall application, it's pretty minor. a very outstanding evaluation can add a few RABs (additional points added to the WPM based on subjective criteria), but not enough to move the needle much. The same points are added for all sorts of things, so it remains true that NASS on its own is not enough to make a significant difference

 

[usna1985]

For NASS participants, don't stress over the evaluation. First, it's being written by someone who was a plebe a week prior and covers 4 days of activities. Thus, it doesn't carry anywhere near the weight of comments from teachers who've known the candidate on a daily basis for a year or more. Second, the main issues that will attract attention from the NASS squad leader are effort and motivation. Someone who shows up motivated, participates fully in all activities, tries to help out classmates, has a good attitude and is in reasonable shape will be more than fine.

 

[ThePatternisFull]

Just my two cents. NASS is a recruiting and awareness tool for USNA period. Does it help you get an appointment...NO! You have the opportunity to complete your CFA. The evals by the detailers are not given much weight. Remember the detailers were in the attendees shoes a little less than a year ago. The evals are practice for them. Folks there is no magic formula or spell that can say if candidate A does this and attends that they will be offered an appointment. This year my "TOP" candidate is going to WP USNA sent TWE. The candidate who received and appointment and is attending is the least qualified IMHO. Also 2 other candidates who did attend NASS also received TWE's. The father of one was a USNA Grad and a Department head at USNA! So much for legacy. ADVICE for all candidates just put together the best package you can and the chips will fall where they may. DS was turned down for NASS eventhough I am a BGO. I know his package is strong but even I can not tell him he is guaranteed an offer or not!

 

[Cptn.Boca]

Got rejected from NASS but secured an appointment. Just a case in point.

 

[Therese_In_Denver]

Question for the thread; do MOC staffs understand everything you've explained above? We have a brand new congressman whose staff admitted that they are doing a totally paper process because they can't get their fillable PDFs to work. The presenting staffers were earnest and bright young recent college grads who did not seem to understand a lot about SAs. The two senators are seasoned and have done this for several terms. DS doesn't know whether he needs to explain the NASS Outstanding Overall Candidate award in essays, or he just trusts that it will be noticed and focuses on other things in the essays?

 

[NavyHoops]

It really depends on how your MOC does their boards. Most MOCs do a panel interview. Have seen panels consists of grads, vets, local community leaders and MOC staff. I have never seen a board without grads on it (but doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened) and they would know the award. The SAs also have briefings with staffs to ensure they get the info they need.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

do MOC staffs understand everything you've explained above?

Had to laugh at the Question. The cynical answer is that I suspect many MOC staffers, particular with a new Congressman, don't have a clue about the Admissions process. That said, a lot depends upon the priority the MOC him/herself puts on the Service Academies, and the longevity of the staff. I'm sure each of the Service Academies makes Admissions briefings available to the MOC and staff, but the question is whether they avail themselves of the opportunity.

 

[Therese_In_Denver]

do MOC staffs understand everything you've explained above?

Had to laugh at the Question. The cynical answer is that I suspect many MOC staffers, particular with a new Congressman, don't have a clue about the Admissions process. .

OK...with that in mind, DS worked a one-sentence explanation with it into an essay response that appeared on all three MOCs apps. I kept asking, "why did you win the award?" That's what came out in the essay.
I'm thankful for this process even if he doesn't get in. I cannot imagine an essay for U of CO bringing tears to my eyes as do essays for SAs nomination. The depth of the introspection this SA goal requires allows parents a closer look at the men/women our candidates are becoming.

 

[Dr. Strange Love]

The depth of the introspection this SA goal requires allows parents a closer look at the men/women our candidates are becoming.

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The process just kind-of builds on itself over time, a lot of colors and a lot of layers. There is something always new too. It’s fun to watch on this forum.
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