Question about Navy Careers

Memphis9489 said:
I have some recent knowledge in this area that I think I should share with anybody who is thinking of pursuing the Medical Corps at the Naval Academy.

There is a directive that limits the service academies to send no more than 2% of their graduates into the medical field (doctors and dentists - no nurses).

However, each service is free to send less (or none), if they so choose. Unlike the Army & Air Force, the Navy has adopted the policy of less in the past few years. It seems they have settled upon no more than 10. Not eleven. Not twelve. It doesn't matter if 30 have preferenced this and would be otherwise a perfect choice for the Medical Corps. They only take 10. In fact, they'll take less than 10 if they are not pleased with the candidates.

One of my sons had an Air Force Academy roommate last year (2/C year). That cadet was striving to become a doctor after graduation. He told my son, who was also trying to get into the Medical Corps, that, at USAFA they take many more into the medical field after graduation - over 20. (By the way, that kid did ultimately get selected to become an Air Force doctor.) West Point, I believe, takes over 20 and identifies them early. This cadet was amazed at how few the Naval Academy permitted.

Does that mean it's easier to become a doctor at USMA & USAFA because they take more than USNA? Not necessarily. There's no way of knowing that. The chance of getting selected for Medical Corps at USNA is so remote - many don't even try. Plus, it's one of the least advertised of the service selection options. (The academy only touts it in their "Fulfill Your Destiny" campaign. Total misrepresentation! Once you get to the academy, you'll barely hear a peep about the Medical Corps) One would need to know how many cadets typically compete for the available slots to determine the probability of being selected. Because it's a more viable option, maybe many more compete for those slots.

Having said that - for the most part, it is a self-selecting process. People fall off the radar screen for countless reasons other than the academy not selecting them. Inadequate grades, conduct/honor issues, unimpressive MCAT score, failed to shadow doctors, no community service activities, poor recommendations from professors, poor interview, etc. When the dust settles, there is very little selecting remaining on the part of the academy since the competition has built-in carnage.

The real discouragement comes when you fall just short of the quota. The 11th and 12th Medical Corps applicants are designated as alternates. They still have to get accepted into a medical school, however. Imagine the motivation to fly off to a medical school interview knowing that, even if the medical school accepts you, the Navy will not permit you to attend.

The irony is this: For many, the only thing standing in the way between them and a career in medicine is the Navy itself. Had they gone to a regular college (i.e. civilian) there would be no such restriction. Colleges do not have quotas for how many of their graduates are permitted to become doctors, or lawyers, or engineers, or anything. Only at a service academy.

Both my sons were lucky - they were selected. But it was very stressful, especially when it comes time to sign your commitment papers prior to beginning your 2/C (i.e. junior) year at the academy. The Navy requires you to commit to them before they will commit to you.

Caveat emptor!
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I find these stats a little disconcerting and inconsistent with the message that we heard during our CVW. Medical is one of the avenues that my son is considering for his future. During our CVW, the admissions team, in direct response to the question about attending medical school following graduation stated that as much as 2% of mids get the opportunity to attend. Where as at USMA, the top 2% of the class gets to compete.

It was one of the deciding factors in my DS making his choice of Navy vs. Army. If the stats you are providing are true then it would appear that the admissions team word smithed their answer to give a more favorable impression than is reality. I call that less than honorable.

In the end, it probably would not have made his choice different but I do not like the idea of promoting one's agenda thru inflated pretenses.
 
In fairness, I believe both points can be true. Up to 2% of each class (about 24 mids) can compete for a med school slot. However, it's up to the USN to decide how many will actually be able to select med school. Given the needs of the Navy, that number may be lower than 2%. In recent years, it's been closer to 10-12 than the ~24, which represents the 2% of the class.

Honestly, things can change. There was a time in the late 1970s when the option for med school was suddenly taken away. Those who had entered USNA with dreams of going to med school directly were suddenly told that this was no longer an option. They had to find something else to do. The program was reinstated about 8 yrs later and people who did not have any aspirations of going to med school when they came to USNA suddenly had that option.

The bottom line is that, when you're in the military, nothing is guaranteed. Ever. No matter how well you do; no matter how many requirements you meet. It may not be fair, but it's reality. Anyone in the military can cite examples of this.

This is why you need to be "flexible." If the only reason you are entering USNA or any part of the military is to be a doctor, pilot, sub driver, SEAL, etc. . . . please realize it may not happen. And you will still have to fulfill your service obligation. Definitely pursue your desires but keep in mind that this is the military and it, not you, comes first.
 
usna1985 said:
In fairness, I believe both points can be true. Up to 2% of each class (about 24 mids) can compete for a med school slot. However, it's up to the USN to decide how many will actually be able to select med school. Given the needs of the Navy, that number may be lower than 2%. In recent years, it's been closer to 10-12 than the ~24, which represents the 2% of the class.

Honestly, things can change. There was a time in the late 1970s when the option for med school was suddenly taken away. Those who had entered USNA with dreams of going to med school directly were suddenly told that this was no longer an option. They had to find something else to do. The program was reinstated about 8 yrs later and people who did not have any aspirations of going to med school when they came to USNA suddenly had that option.

The bottom line is that, when you're in the military, nothing is guaranteed. Ever. No matter how well you do; no matter how many requirements you meet. It may not be fair, but it's reality. Anyone in the military can cite examples of this.

This is why you need to be "flexible." If the only reason you are entering USNA or any part of the military is to be a doctor, pilot, sub driver, SEAL, etc. . . . please realize it may not happen. And you will still have to fulfill your service obligation. Definitely pursue your desires but keep in mind that this is the military and it, not you, comes first.
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I can appreciate your point. Especially about the needs of the military, been there, done that, got the tshirt. However, I also appreciate hearing realistic answers as opposed to what might happen. At the least, the admissions personnel could have caveated their answer with the same language you used providing realistic stats rather than best possible outcome. Especially when that best possible outcome is presented as the only answer.

In the end, this is probably the only item that I could criticize the USNA admissions team for. As stated previously, I found the USNA admissions process to be far superior to the other two and I am partial (USMA '86).
 
It was one of the deciding factors in my DS making his choice of Navy vs. Army. If the stats you are providing are true then it would appear that the admissions team word smithed their answer to give a more favorable impression than is reality. I call that less than honorable.
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I presume your DS had a medical interest long before both of you attended CVW (since it was a factor in the decision) and it didn't spark when that question was asked. A quick check at the service assignment statistics for the last few years (posted online) would have shown that only about 10 MIDN received billets to medical school and that could have aided in a more informed decision. I agree that there could have been a little more transparency added on to the statement of fact (up to 2% of each class can go to medical school). But I would hope in considering all the factors in deciding between USNA/USMA, that attendance at medical school, wasn't the highest of priorities. Even if the slots are available, there are so many other external roadblocks (MCAT, actually doing well in math/science courses, being accepted to medical school, favorable recommendations, etc.) that could factor in well before the number of billets become an issue. And as you are aware, who knows if the program could even be further reduced (or cut). I really don't think anyone should be deciding to attend a SA with the expectation that they are a shoe-in for competitive programs (i.e. medical, SEALs, SPECOPS, etc.) -- in fact, they should assume that they will not make the cut, so that a reasonable alternate is available -- and if they do make the cut, well then it is "icing" on the cake and at least there was a backup plan in place.

Just my two cents.
 
We may be beating this Medical Corps issue to death - but right now it's fresh on my mind.

First of all, the process of getting accepted into a medical school only begins once the academy has informed you that you've been selected for the Medical Corps. That happens shortly after the academic year begins your 1/C year. The midshipmen who are selected are informed of their service selection much earlier than their classmates precisely because they have to get going with their medical school applications. And even that is getting somewhat of a late start. There's no point in applying to medical school (applications are not free) if you're not selected for Med Corps.

Secondly, it's really not that difficult to get accepted into a medical school after the academy has vetted out the selectees. At a minimum, USUHS (Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences), at Bethesda (i.e. Walter Reed) has a very consistent record of accepting academy graduates who apply. The United States Naval Academy looks pretty good on your record and makes you standout from all the other applicants.

If, for some strange reason, the selectee does not get accepted into any medical school by early May, their selection for Medical Corps will be revoked and another service community will be assigned. I'm not sure that has ever happened, however.

The other scholarship program is called HPSP (Health Professions Scholarship Program). This is where the military pays for your medical training at a civilian medical school. You still must get accepted to that medical school, however.

All the Med Corps selectees qualify and usually receive both scholarships. From what I can tell, roughly half of the 10 usually decide to go the USUHS (military) route and the other half go the HPSP (civilian) route. The additional military obligations are different. There are other significant differences, not the least of which, when you are in the HPSP program, you are on inactive reserve status; which basically means you're not in the military.

If anybody wants any more details on any of this, you can PM me. Right now, I'm very up to speed on this stuff. There's no point in going into any greater detail since this is usually not the primary interest of most candidates applying to USNA.
 
I know when students win the rhode scholar, you go to Oxford for a year to continue your education. Does this also apply to other fellowships such as Stanford Graduate Fellowships Program in Science and Engineering? Or it is apply to only the scholars programs listed on their website?
 
USNA2017 said:
I know when students win the rhode scholar, you go to Oxford for a year to continue your education. Does this also apply to other fellowships such as Stanford Graduate Fellowships Program in Science and Engineering? Or it is apply to only the scholars programs listed on their website?
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There are some who, immediately after graduation, continue their education in some post-graduate program. Very few, though. The Navy has to approve it. If it is paid for by some organization *other* than the government (like a Rhodes Scholarship), no addition military time is accrued; however, their 5yr obligation for their USNA education will not begin until they finish their post-graduate education. If government tax dollars pay for the education, additional military obligation will be tacked onto their USNA obligation.
 
USNA2017 said:
I know when students win the rhode scholar, you go to Oxford for a year to continue your education. Does this also apply to other fellowships such as Stanford Graduate Fellowships Program in Science and Engineering? Or it is apply to only the scholars programs listed on their website?
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The people who are identified to compete for Rhodes/Marshall Scholarships and other prestigious continuing education programs are identified very early on. Most of us get culled from that herd by about, oh, the six week marking period plebe year.

Those who don't get one of those (but are still part of that group) often are selected for IGEP, which essentially means you go to the civilian grad school of your choice and get your master's before doing anything related to the Navy/USMC. I have classmates studying now at Harvard, Princeton, and (I think...pretty sure) Stanford. A bunch of others just finished up master's programs at Georgetown, Maryland, and a couple other schools through VGEP (different from IGEP), which is also a very good deal.

I"m not trying to discourage you, but these are not just things you can randomly apply for firstie year: candidates are identified pretty early and the number gets winnowed down pretty far by decision time.
 
What determines if you are eligible to compete for scholar programs? Is it soley gpa or are there other determining factors?
 
BZ and Congrats to Memphis9489 and his twin Firsties on their acceptance into Med School :thumb:......where are they headed and when do they start ?
FLY NAVY
 
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