Question from Struggling Mid

A

ab24

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Good Morning,

I am a MIDN 4/C currently attending a large public Southern University. I am posting today to ask about some advice that I cannot seem to find an answer to within myself.

For some background: I was a recipient of a 4-year AROTC and NROTC scholarship and just attended New Student Indoctrination at Great Lakes Naval Station this past summer. I am currently studying Computer Science in my college's engineering department. I grew up in a small town, went to a small high school, and did a year of post-secondary education at a small Christian college during my senior year of high school. Essentially, I took a full college course load, lived in the dorms, and had a regular college life except that my transcript was tied to a high school.

Now, I have been preparing for my eventual military career as far back as 8th grade; i.e. sea cadets, volunteering, etc. Part of this preparation process was working as a CSO with my town's police department to get volunteering hours while getting a different perspective of a different career path (this will come into play later). For the most part, I never really had doubts about any of what I was doing. In fact, I was ecstatic to go off into the "real world" and join NROTC at a massive university. I felt like I needed this to develop myself as a person and went in with no hesitation. I even enjoyed my time at NSI despite it being a very difficult environment.

However, now that I've been at my university for a while, I can't say that I've been genuinely happy since I've come here. Now, before I get the stereotypical response of, "ROTC is meant to be hard, suck it up," I want to clarify that ROTC is not causing my problems here, it's the school itself. I have friends, I am involved on campus (two clubs, intramurals, student government), and I'm getting good grades in a very hard major, but none of it feels right to me. I know that this is typically something most freshmen go through, but it was never this bad for me at the university I was previously at. I can't exactly pinpoint what about the school makes me feel this way, but all I know is that I have been miserable for a while and I don't see much improvement happening in the future. I am currently seeing a family counselor about this and am not sure where I go from here.

Part of me really does not want to walk away from ROTC. I take extreme pride in what I do and took extreme pride in preparing for it. If I left ROTC, I would be ashamed to have walked away from a program I fought so hard to be a part of. However, the other part of me knows that how I feel is not healthy and I would be okay pursuing law/law enforcement at my old university. I think an aspect of this change of heart is my involvement with my town's police department. I get excited to work with them and I feel like I would really enjoy working in the field after college. However, if walking away from ROTC during/after my freshman year meant that I would be labeled a quitter to employers and people around me, I would re-evaluate what I need to do.

I still feel like the military is for me, but I am not sure if ROTC at my current university is.

With this issue, I have separate questions:

What are the ramifications of walking away from ROTC after your freshman year? (i.e. barred from enlistment, other commissioning programs, stain on reputation?)

If I was to leave before my contracting date, would I have to tell future employers that I dropped out of ROTC?



With this in mind, I've come to two options I could take. I could either:

A: Stay at my university, study a major I do not feel passionate about, and hope I feel happier down the line.

or

B: Leave my current university, study law or law enforcement at my previous university my Sophmore year, but walk away from ROTC.


This is honestly one of the hardest decisions I have encountered and I would appreciate some advice regarding this.
 
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Only you can answer this one, as I'm sure you know. Until you pinpoint why your unhappy then you're making changes to no real purpose; as those changes may be ineffective. My own opinion is happiness isn't something you find, it's something you bring with you. That being said, have you considered continuing with NROTC where you are and changing your major to something like criminal law? Of course you might lose the scholarship if you got it on the basis of a comp sci major.

There is no financial obligation if you leave NROTC at the end of your freshman year. If you start sophomore year in NROTC then you incur an obligation to pay them back, including for your freshman year.

You wouldn't tell a future employer if you quit the soccer team, or swim team. I see no reason why you would mention you dropped from NROTC.

Speak with your cadre about what it means with respect to later enlisting or commissioning, but I don't believe it will have any efect if you leave on "good terms". If your performance has been poor then that might be another matter. However, the cadre can give you the official response on this as opposed to relying on an old man to take a SWAG at it.
 
Thank you for your response, it really does mean a lot to me.

I have talked to my advisor about transferring to a more "pre-law" track since my school does not offer a criminal law degree (surprising right?). He has said it's likely to be denied since I am a Tier 2 major going to Tier 3 but not impossible. As for losing the scholarship, I would not be able to afford the university I am at currently if I decided to continue with NROTC but forfeit the college. However, I have a full ride at the university I attended last year.

If I did leave, I do not think a lack of performance would be indicated. For the freshman class, I easily have the most unit volunteering/regular volunteering hours and am doing pretty well academics. I hope that would be enough for a positive referral should I decide to go the JAG direct commissioning route.
 
I'm sorry you are going through this, and I think it is brave and wise to ask for help. Of course, as stated above, only you can make the decision. You mentioned clubs, have you been able to find any club or activity at your current school that offers any link to criminal justice or law? Can you reach out to local sheriff/police department and ask for opportunities for ride along and volunteering? Maybe finding something that speaks to what you had a passion for will help you. I am just spit balling here, but thought I would throw some ideas your way.

Is home sickness kicking in? Maybe (if possible) a weekend with mom and dad would help. I know when our daughter first left the state (she was living with family) and did school and work, she got homesick. She isn't a hugging type, but when I pulled in after a 15 hour drive I thought she would never let go. She hadn't realized how much she missed home, us or her brother. She said the visit gave her fuel to finish. I wish you good luck and peace with your decision.
 
ab24 said:
With this in mind, I've come to two options I could take. I could either:

A: Stay at my university, study a major I do not feel passionate about, and hope I feel happier down the line.

or

B: Leave my current university, study law or law enforcement at my previous university my Sophmore year, but walk away from ROTC.
Click to expand...

Is there not an option "C" available? Couldn't you transfer to a public college that has a cross-town relationship with your NROTC battalion? That way you might stay in your major but "fit" better in a smaller school while staying in NROTC.
 
I forgot to mention this earlier but the other two cross town affiliates for my school are relatively large schools as well (both of which I've toured)
 
I'm not sure why it would be different at your school, but at Penn State I know of several mids in my class who have successfully switched from a tier 2 to a tier 3. It does need to be approved by NSTC but as long as you have a solid reason, it shouldn't be a problem.
 
Heatherg21 said:
I'm sorry you are going through this, and I think it is brave and wise to ask for help. Of course, as stated above, only you can make the decision. You mentioned clubs, have you been able to find any club or activity at your current school that offers any link to criminal justice or law? Can you reach out to local sheriff/police department and ask for opportunities for ride along and volunteering? Maybe finding something that speaks to what you had a passion for will help you. I am just spit balling here, but thought I would throw some ideas your way.

Is home sickness kicking in? Maybe (if possible) a weekend with mom and dad would help. I know when our daughter first left the state (she was living with family) and did school and work, she got homesick. She isn't a hugging type, but when I pulled in after a 15 hour drive I thought she would never let go. She hadn't realized how much she missed home, us or her brother. She said the visit gave her fuel to finish. I wish you good luck and peace with your decision.
Click to expand...


Thank you for your response. As for your question regarding clubs or activities, I am currently a reserve police officer with my town's department, hence why I have been becoming more interested in that field.

As for homesickness, I'm not sure if that's part of it or not. My college is roughly 20 mins from my house so I can come home on weekends if need be, but I never experienced this kind of homesickness at my previous university nor did I feel like I needed to come home during my 3 weeks at NSI.
 
Just to spitball another option that may or may not interest you... Can you try to change from a Navy Option to a Marine Option, making the major less important or even unimportant?

Of course if you STILL have a full ride available at least years college then at least that's financially a viable alternative. I would confirm that before making any leaps. You could perhaps pursue OCS upon gradation if that weas something that still interested you at that time.
 
I am sorry to hear of your current struggle, but impressed with the maturity with which you are handling it. My advice would be not to do anything too rash. Things may very well feel different in a few months. I would add a couple of points concerning a possible future career in law enforcement. My perspective is that of a criminal law trial lawyer married to a police detective. I have also taught criminal justice for 20 years at several universities. Law enforcement agencies love to hire former military service members (any branch). Not only would you receive veterans preference points in the hiring process, but you would be highly sought after (assuming an honorable discharge) for your training, discipline, and maturity that you will pick up in the military. It sounds like you might also be interested in pursuing law school. Most people do not understand that you can be accepted to law school with any undergraduate degree. You do not need to major in criminal justice, pre-law, or political science. Law schools are looking for diversity of backgrounds (which is how I was accepted to a top tier law school with a Bachelor of Science in Wildlife-Fisheries Resources.). Your current major of Computer Science would make you desirable in both law enforcement and law school. There is no need to change your major if you enjoy that subject. Good luck.
 
You said it yourself: "I have been preparing for my eventual military career as far back as 8th grade."
It's only 4 years. Get the degree. Commission. That's how it's done.
 
There's risk in staying in as well: even after four years at school the needs of the service may place you some distance from a law enforcement role for another year or four. Maybe try looking at other options for how you can serve. Do you need to stay Navy? Someone above suggested Marines, but around here there's a local MN National Guard unit that's MPs, for example. If you get the degree where you're comfortable, get into a career where you're comfortable and then bring those skills back to the table and they could be quite welcome.

A huge part of growing up, moving from a gangly 15 year old to a 20-something adult, is figuring out who you are and what's important to you. You're in the middle of it now, and sometimes it'll feel like you can't see very far in any direction. Don't be so concerned about how others will judge your path, just determine what you need to do and start moving. Be persistent and try to be creative in assessing what you want. Like someone said once, you have a much better chance of getting what you want once you know what you're looking for.
 
BTW, you are not unique in questioning “who am I? What am i?” It’s part of growing up. All my kids have gone through this. My two now adult kids changed their pathways many times before settling in. So this is a normal thing.

Sometimes we have to just hunker down and moved forward. Opportunities will always present themselves. You won’t be stuck doing XXX for the rest of your life. I think sometimes we have to quiet our minds...and forge ahead. Overthinking things can be a pain in the you-know-what. But it’s also hard sometimes to quiet those “what-if” thoughts.

My advice to my own child would be to stay the present course u til a decision HAD to be made. Your outlook may change by then. And if not? The time spent reflecting may make the other path more obvious.

Sometimes we can get so caught up in the present moment, that we loose sight of the fact that this moment won’t matter in a few short years. It will be only a story about how you got where you are.

I tell my kids “you can quit, but not today.” Inevitably it’s a different outlook tomorrow, and there is no quitting.

Also I know you are talking to a counselor. Maybe also try another resource? A chaplain perhaps? Advisor? For another perspective.

Wish you the best!!
 
If it was me, I would choose A. Finish what you started. I read somewhere that the average person changes careers at least 3 times in their lifetimes. Once you complete your service commitment, you can use your computer science degree somewhere in law enforcement. Maybe, return to college and major in law enforcement in grad school.
 
+1 on SunnyCal. I'm going on my third career with 10 years as an Air Force officer. I got my engineering degree not because I absolutely loved engineering, but because it would open up a number of doors. I was able to go into marketing/general management with my leadership and engineering experience with top companies, and am now going into teaching high school science.
Only you can make the decision, but it is hard to pinpoint what exactly you are having an issue with other than your attitude towards the school. To throw in the towel now may not be the right thing - try to finish the year and then reflect. Building up personal fortitude is an important attribute in both your development as an officer and as a career professional - adversity is part of everyday life.
Best of luck to you
 
I sounds like you might be feeling a bit lost in the environment of a large university and struggling to adjust. You went from a small town, small high school, to a small university to now a large university with a difficult major and the added stress of NROTC. My kids also grew up in a small town (about 22,000) and a small high school and went off to large universities. One NROTC; one no ROTC. DS is a 2/c now and adjusted pretty quickly. DD is a freshman and having some difficulty with the new environment. My advice would be not to focus on how big the entire university is, but look at the smaller pieces you are a part of; the NROTC unit, others in your major, members of your clubs and sports team. It's kind of like walking into the kitchen after Thanksgiving dinner to clean up. If you look at the entire job to be done, it's overwhelming, but if you break it down piece bu piece, it's manageable. I'd suggest you stay the course and give yourself some time to adjust and see how you feel towards the end of the school year. As has been mentioned above, the first year is no obligation.

Also, as a police officer for nearly 25 years, I will echo that prior military experience if a plus in law enforcement hiring. I'll also say that a criminal justice degree really doesn't have much benefit (that is what my degree is in). A computer science major though would be highly beneficial in this world of high tech crimes. I imagine the FBI for one would seek these degrees. I know a high percentage of FBI agents have accounting degrees as well.

Best of luck finding the right path for you.
 
All the advice you've received so far has been on target....I'm just going to add this....before making a decision, assess some of the communities available to you in the Navy where computer science and law enforcement might coincide....I know my son listed aviation as a top choice, but he listed cyber-security and also intelligence as other options....it might be something you have an interest in.

You didn't say if the other university that you attended had a NROTC unit, so I'm assuming they do not...otherwise, if they did, I would recommend looking at options to see if you can transfer the scholarship to that school...it may not be possible as this point.

Also, I know several who changed from Tier 2 to Tier 3 majors without losing their scholarships, so that is also an option.

At the end of the day, you need to decide what is right for you. It sounds to me like the school may not be the right fit...and that's okay...but you are only a freshman and the next three years could be very long if it's not the right fit. I know a couple of students who found that the school of their dreams became a nightmare once they were enrolled - and you may be doing okay now as far as studies and academics...but as the course load gets more difficult, that may become a challenge if you are not acclimated to your school.

So words of advice DS1 gave to DS2 to help with the adjustment to school....maintain multiple friend groups....and spend time with all of them...you have the dorm friends, you have the NROTC friends, you have the intramural sports or clubs friends, you have the study group (those in your major) friends....hang out with all of them and keep them all close....they will help with the adjustment and establishing some common ground.
 
kinnem said:
Just to spitball another option that may or may not interest you... Can you try to change from a Navy Option to a Marine Option, making the major less important or even unimportant?

Of course if you STILL have a full ride available at least years college then at least that's financially a viable alternative. I would confirm that before making any leaps. You could perhaps pursue OCS upon gradation if that weas something that still interested you at that time.
Click to expand...

+1. My DS is very interested in pursuing Navy ROTC. However, he has no interest in pursuing a STEM major. I thought about pushing him to study computers to try to increase his chances of getting a scholarship. Then, I thought better of it. Just like you, he wants law enforcement some day. His great grandfather and great-great grandfathers were New York City cops. I will advise him to pursue what ever major he chooses. If he doesn't get a scholarship, then he will prove himself as a college programmer and earn a 3 year scholarship. If he wants to go Marine Option, that is up to him. You MUST follow your heart. You cannot let the Navy force you to study something that does not interest you.
 
@ab24 - great advice, counsel and suggestions above.

Allow me to take a different spin, when I read your posts, I sense confusion: undetermined depression, stay/drop ROTC, questions on a major. You then leap to solutions for one or multiple of these.

I suggest you seek to get to the bottom of your frustration/ depression. During my first read of your posts, I immediately wondered if you were suffering from goal accomplishment. Sometimes, people who are singularly focused on a goal and then achieve it find themselves "lost" for a bit. In your case, it seems you were a high potential student and driven to earning an ROTC scholarship to a big University. You achieved it and may now be struggling a bit.

If that is the case, you now need that next goal to focus on.

Good luck.
 
First off I'd like to say thank you all for spending your time on giving me advice. There are a lot of people who wouldn't give this sort of thing the time of day.

To address some points:

- My previous university did not have a unit nor was it a cross-town affiliate. As for the degree itself, the reason I mention criminal justice in particular is because some states require at least 2 years towards a CRJ or equivalent degree in order to be qualified for hire, and I would most likely double major in CRJ and a technology degree.

- As for switching to the Marines, I am not confident that would solve my issue to be honest. I feel like my problem resides more in the school itself, as I would be thrilled to do ROTC at my previous university if it was availible (it isn't).

- I will not be making a rash decision any time soon. I know myself well enough to know that I will continue through this year at least and then see where I am at in the spring/summer.

- As for communities, I know after ROTC I am only able to commission into unrestricted line communities like Surface Warfare, Subsurface Warfare, etc. While these fields are great opportunities, there is no community that you commission into after ROTC that is directly involved with law/law enforcement.

- The dept I currently work for has expressed interest in hiring me after college on multiple occassions, usually to which I mention that it will be at least four years before I would be looking for a job there.

I think right now, I just need to finish out the year and go from there. I will be contacting my adviser towards the end of second semester because I do not want any one in the unit getting the impression that I'm on the fence this early. After doing a little more research I noticed the JAG direct comissioning program seems more like a better fit for me. It would allow me to go to my old university, get my masters, then serve in the Navy after going through OCS. If leaving ROTC would not have a negative effect on being eligible for this option, I would most likely want to explore that route further.

Again, thank you all for your advice.
 
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