quitting the academy and joining afrotc hopefully
- Thread starter nray25
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I think you're confusing me with nray25, who started this thread. I'm at VT and hes at USAFA. Im not thinking about leaving and never said I was. I'm simply making a point that if someone doesnt like the lifestyle of an academy/senior military college, they shouldnt have to re-think military service. Sorry if it wasnt clear.
100% agree!
One reason I love this forum, I can learn something new everyday!
I just assumed if you left an academy, the military would not want to pay for your education elsewhere, thinking you might leave that program as well.
Nick, our son has recd his NROTC schoarship to Tech, and he loves it there. Of those cadets that you know at Tech who came from an academy, do you know if they find the the CoC to give them more of a normal college experience over the regimen of an academy?
Absolutely. Freshmen year is still strict and probably more like the academy experience. But as an upperclassman it becomes very loose and much more comparable to normal ROTC. The only major exceptions are wearing a uniform to class, living in cadet dorms and going to formation in the mornings.
Unfortunately ROTC wont help with that. But you might get some help from the university. And there's always student loans I guess. I dont know much about the fin aid process. Maybe the other people around here have some good advice.
Good luck
Ugh, hearing that makes me sad, Nray. I know it's hard for us parents to be totally supportive when our kids are not following the path we think they should take. Communication has always been the best policy in our house, and believe me, sometimes our family talks have been very difficult. I'm hopeful your folks will come to realize that the academy is not the only path to becoming an outstanding officer.
Thanks for your input, Nick. During our son's college search, he chose Tech because it seems to be a good balance between the academy life and the typical college ROTC. Being housed with the cadets and having daily life structure are exactly what he wants, but the rigidity of the academy seems a bit intimidating to him right now.
Just_A_Mom
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nray25 - my heart aches for you. Sounds like a bit of a tug of war going on between you and your folks. Perhaps they mean this but also perhaps they are just trying to encourage you to stay.
You need to sit down and talk to them, face to face. Have you talked to your squadron officer (or whatever they call them at afa)? Perhaps this officer can act as a go-between and talk to your parents.
It is going to be very difficult for you to do this on your own.
You will qualify for financial aid as an independent student. You probably won't get an AF scholarship, at least for the first year. The scholarship won't cover room and board and will will have to take out loans. As an independent student you probably will qualify for a Pell Grant which will give you just over $5000/year. You can borrow $4500 subsidized Stafford loan and another $6000 unsubsidized Stafford loan per YEAR.
Educationally - Think twice before giving up this opportunity to get an engineering degree from AFA. Many college freshmen (SA or not) are really frustrated with academics until they get into their major. When school gets better the whole outlook on life gets better.
Also, think about the other opportunities you have through AFA that you won't have through civilian college such as going abroad and summer assignments. You sound committed to leaving, but I hope you don't consider this lightly. Please talk to a counselor, talk to the AF Officers there, talk to your teachers. Don't think that you are the first cadet to feel this way - you are not. Some leave and never look back while others stay and find it gets much better and the bs is easier to put up with.
Parents - Please, please hear what Nick is saying. Do NOT ever tell you child they can't come home if they quit in order to encourage them to stay. That is cruel and will damage your relationship with your child.
I think every parent needs to have a conversation with their child before they go and tell them that if it doesn't work out (for whatever reason) they can always come home and they will support them (at least emotionally).
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nray25, don't forget the chaplains - they are skilled in counseling in these types of situations, and it has nothing to do with their faith group. You don't have to be a regular service-goer; they are there for you. They will help you to think through how to approach your parents and understand their point of view.
Whatever else you choose to do, don't give up on the academics, because that's the portable item of value you can take with you, in terms of course transfers, to other schools, if that's the path you take.
Remember when you were "little," and all you wanted to do was be grown-up, out on your own, responsible for your own decisions? Well, now you are, and learning how to keep your head up and put one foot in front of the other as you journey through challenging portions of your life IS being a grown-up. It is definitely not fun at times. There is also great reward and confidence that comes from facing tough times and figuring out the way ahead.
If you come to know in your heart these are not transitory thoughts, then you have to focus on the long poles in the tent: (1) working on a plan to get your college education (2) speaking as a responsible young adult with your parents to collaborate on a plan (3) keeping your academics up and leaving on your own terms, not doing the self-destruct thing so you get asked to leave.
I left out any mention of gaining a commission through other means. Military life, while indeed not the same as at a SA, is a life unlike any other. Deciding whether or not you want to serve in uniform is a different, but inextricably related, decision than the path that takes you there. Military life is not all glory and waving flags, it can be life and death, as well as an everyday job filled with inanities (and occasionally idiotic peers and senior officers). The inanities seem to be getting to you there. Once you raise your right hand to take the oath as a commissioned officer, you cannot walk away if you don't like it. We could fill the forum with posts from former and retired officers/enlisted, spouses, recently graduated cadets and midshipmen, as well as currently serving officers and enlisted personnel, on "inanities, idiotic peers, etc." as well as the tangible and intangible rewards of service in uniform.
I'll be keeping you in my thoughts.
Whatever else you choose to do, don't give up on the academics, because that's the portable item of value you can take with you, in terms of course transfers, to other schools, if that's the path you take.
Remember when you were "little," and all you wanted to do was be grown-up, out on your own, responsible for your own decisions? Well, now you are, and learning how to keep your head up and put one foot in front of the other as you journey through challenging portions of your life IS being a grown-up. It is definitely not fun at times. There is also great reward and confidence that comes from facing tough times and figuring out the way ahead.
If you come to know in your heart these are not transitory thoughts, then you have to focus on the long poles in the tent: (1) working on a plan to get your college education (2) speaking as a responsible young adult with your parents to collaborate on a plan (3) keeping your academics up and leaving on your own terms, not doing the self-destruct thing so you get asked to leave.
I left out any mention of gaining a commission through other means. Military life, while indeed not the same as at a SA, is a life unlike any other. Deciding whether or not you want to serve in uniform is a different, but inextricably related, decision than the path that takes you there. Military life is not all glory and waving flags, it can be life and death, as well as an everyday job filled with inanities (and occasionally idiotic peers and senior officers). The inanities seem to be getting to you there. Once you raise your right hand to take the oath as a commissioned officer, you cannot walk away if you don't like it. We could fill the forum with posts from former and retired officers/enlisted, spouses, recently graduated cadets and midshipmen, as well as currently serving officers and enlisted personnel, on "inanities, idiotic peers, etc." as well as the tangible and intangible rewards of service in uniform.
I'll be keeping you in my thoughts.
Pima
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Nray, my heart also breaks for you.
JIC you do not know our back story, 2 yrs ago our DS had to choose between the AFA and an AFROTC full ride to his 1st choice "traditional" college. Bullet and I sat down with DS for a true heart to heart. We wanted him to go to a school he was going to be truly happy at, nothing else mattered. We feared he was going for the AFA because of making his DAD (an AF O-5) proud or just to get a pilot slot. Neither of these reasons should be a motivation to go to any SA.
We have taken a lot of heat for what we did to him during his SR yr at HS. We made him get up at 6, make his bed, and run at least 3 days a week before leaving for class at 8. He ate dinner at attention, never looking down at his plate, chewed only 7 times, and recite 3 current events for the day along with the lunch menu at school for the next 3 days. When he complained we told him this would be 1/10th of his life next yr. FYI we didn't do it everyday, but I am sure he believes we did! We also sat him down with the curriculum for the AFA regarding his next 4 yrs. He excelled at Math and Science, but his love is government and history. We might have been harsh, but he has never regretted his decision and we are incredibly proud of him.
Too many kids and parents get trapped in the allure of the SA without looking to see if it is a match. I think that is what happened to you.
Maybe your parents just feel that you will regret leaving later on, and if you just dig in you'll get past it. Maybe they worry your career will be over before it starts. Neither of these premises are true. The reality is 25% of any SA class will not graduate. You are not a rarity.
If you go ROTC at a school you love, carry a very strong gpa (at least 3.4), you will still have the chance to get your military dream.
For those that criticize you about drills and formation, IMHO, they are wrong. Yes, you will have to do stuff you hate, but walking the pavement is different than doing a FOD walk.
JIC you do not know our back story, 2 yrs ago our DS had to choose between the AFA and an AFROTC full ride to his 1st choice "traditional" college. Bullet and I sat down with DS for a true heart to heart. We wanted him to go to a school he was going to be truly happy at, nothing else mattered. We feared he was going for the AFA because of making his DAD (an AF O-5) proud or just to get a pilot slot. Neither of these reasons should be a motivation to go to any SA.
We have taken a lot of heat for what we did to him during his SR yr at HS. We made him get up at 6, make his bed, and run at least 3 days a week before leaving for class at 8. He ate dinner at attention, never looking down at his plate, chewed only 7 times, and recite 3 current events for the day along with the lunch menu at school for the next 3 days. When he complained we told him this would be 1/10th of his life next yr. FYI we didn't do it everyday, but I am sure he believes we did! We also sat him down with the curriculum for the AFA regarding his next 4 yrs. He excelled at Math and Science, but his love is government and history. We might have been harsh, but he has never regretted his decision and we are incredibly proud of him.
Too many kids and parents get trapped in the allure of the SA without looking to see if it is a match. I think that is what happened to you.
Maybe your parents just feel that you will regret leaving later on, and if you just dig in you'll get past it. Maybe they worry your career will be over before it starts. Neither of these premises are true. The reality is 25% of any SA class will not graduate. You are not a rarity.
If you go ROTC at a school you love, carry a very strong gpa (at least 3.4), you will still have the chance to get your military dream.
For those that criticize you about drills and formation, IMHO, they are wrong. Yes, you will have to do stuff you hate, but walking the pavement is different than doing a FOD walk.
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Thanks for the back story, Pima. Assuming our son receives a USNA appointment, we'll be having a heart-to-heart as well. Of course it's an honor to attend an academy, but we are more concerned about him being truly happy with HIS choice and succeeding wherever he is. It's hard at 17 to make these big decisions, and we are trying our best to stay as neutral as possible.
Pima
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Cronus,
It is very difficult to remain neutral. What we actually did was play Devils advocate, if he said he wanted the AFA we discussed the downside, if he said ROTC we discussed that downside.
I truly believe too many people don't place the negatives in the equation. Something as simple as sleeping on top of your sheets for months is not a joke because it is funny, it is a joke because it is a reality for many. Just as the fact that their 1st yr the cadets are limited to the amount of personal items they can have. For some that is no biggie, because the long term goal is an SA commission, for others, they are willing to take the chance that they can get their military goal via ROTC instead of living the military life at the ripe old age of 18.
I do agree it is incredibly hard for any 17 yr old to weigh these options, especially since this will be for at least the next 9 yrs of their life (4 at SA, 5 commitment).
We are now going through the college process with DD (she is not going military like her brother), but I think it is still the same emotionally for her as it was for him. We have had heart to heart talks with her, and the one thing we impressed upon her is NOTHING IS WRITTEN IN STONE, wherever she attends we want her to realize that it is okay to change her mind, be it for her major or the school itself. There is absolutely nothing wrong to say "this isn't for me". The only thing we did stress is that she will have an ultimate goal, because we are not paying for a perennial student.
It is very difficult to remain neutral. What we actually did was play Devils advocate, if he said he wanted the AFA we discussed the downside, if he said ROTC we discussed that downside.
I truly believe too many people don't place the negatives in the equation. Something as simple as sleeping on top of your sheets for months is not a joke because it is funny, it is a joke because it is a reality for many. Just as the fact that their 1st yr the cadets are limited to the amount of personal items they can have. For some that is no biggie, because the long term goal is an SA commission, for others, they are willing to take the chance that they can get their military goal via ROTC instead of living the military life at the ripe old age of 18.
I do agree it is incredibly hard for any 17 yr old to weigh these options, especially since this will be for at least the next 9 yrs of their life (4 at SA, 5 commitment).
We are now going through the college process with DD (she is not going military like her brother), but I think it is still the same emotionally for her as it was for him. We have had heart to heart talks with her, and the one thing we impressed upon her is NOTHING IS WRITTEN IN STONE, wherever she attends we want her to realize that it is okay to change her mind, be it for her major or the school itself. There is absolutely nothing wrong to say "this isn't for me". The only thing we did stress is that she will have an ultimate goal, because we are not paying for a perennial student.