hellofriend123
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My district is pretty competitive as its in Northern Virginia, and my congressman has a ranked slate. Assuming the worst, if I was ranked 10 would I still have a chance for an appointment?
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ElectedTuna
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You never know what could happen, maybe the other candidates aren't medically qualified, choose another school, or possibly didn't even necessarily want a nomination to West Point.
I wouldn't stress over it if it's not under your control.
hellofriend123
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You're right there's a lot of possibilities. Just gotta be patient, thanks!
5Day
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The SA will pick one to win the slate. Starting at the top of the list and works its way down to get the MOCs appointment. Everyone else on the slate, if qualified, will compete on a national basis and they will compete based on how the SA ranks them and not the MOC. For example a MOC could rank you 10 and the SA could rank you first in the nation. The top candidate from the MOC would get an appointment and you, since you are ranked top in the nation, would get an appointment out of the national pool. After the MOC slate is determined, every MOC nomination is the same no matter what type of slate was submitted.
If you are 3Q and have any type of NOM, you are in the running for an appointment until you hear otherwise from WP. No one on here can rate your chances for getting an appointment. Until you get the TWE (or an appointment), you are still being considered.
Is it also the case that if #1 on the slate gets an offer to USMA and that #1 candidate decides to decline it to go elsewhere, USMA does not have to go back to the slate and offer #2? In other words, after they offer #1, there is no requirement to go back to the rest of the slate and make an offer if a candidate from the slate has previously declined.
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I disagree. I believe the MOC can rank his slate any way he wishes, but unless he designates a principal nominee, the academies can select any nominee they wish from the list.
And, even if he does designate a principal, the academy will find a nomination for someone they really want.
And, even if he does designate a principal, the academy will find a nomination for someone they really want.
A ranked slate is actually a "Principal with Numbered Alternates' slate.
That means the MOC ranks his choices 1-10 and designates a principal. WCS is not taken into account on this type of slate.
If 3Q'd, the Principal is offered the appointment. If not not 3'd, then the next candidate on the slate is reviewed for an offer. If that candidate is not 3Q'd, then the next candidate on the slate is reviewed for an offer, and so on down the list until the highest number on the numbered slate is 3'Qd - who is then offered the appointment.
@hellofriend123 - if you were ranked 10th and all the 9 above you were not 3'Qd, then yes you would get the appointment - assuming you are 3Q'd. . If one of the 9 above you is 3'Qd and is offered the appointment, then you would go on the NWL.
That means the MOC ranks his choices 1-10 and designates a principal. WCS is not taken into account on this type of slate.
If 3Q'd, the Principal is offered the appointment. If not not 3'd, then the next candidate on the slate is reviewed for an offer. If that candidate is not 3Q'd, then the next candidate on the slate is reviewed for an offer, and so on down the list until the highest number on the numbered slate is 3'Qd - who is then offered the appointment.
@hellofriend123 - if you were ranked 10th and all the 9 above you were not 3'Qd, then yes you would get the appointment - assuming you are 3Q'd. . If one of the 9 above you is 3'Qd and is offered the appointment, then you would go on the NWL.
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I am still unclear of what happens when the appointment is offered to #1 and they decline. On a ranked slate, do they have to go back to that slate after the #1 declines it and offer another person? On an unranked slate, if the first person is offered declines, does the SA have to go back to that MOC slate and pick another? Or, is it once one offer is made, there is no requirement to go back to the slate?
If they have no requirement to go back to the slate and grab another, a MOC can really screw up his constituents by giving multiple noms to one individual for multiple academies. That rock star can only go to one academy. If there is no requirement to go back to the slate, then USMA is free to fill the class how they want and a 3Q'd candidate who was also on the slate with the rock star may not get in when competing nationally.
It is my understanding that WP is not obligated to go back to the slate if an offered candidate declines. They've met their requirement to the MOC -they offered an appointment to someone on their slate.
There are pros and cons to each type of slate. The MOCs are well informed of the differences between the slates and are free to choose which they prefer.
OK. That was my understanding as well. That is an argument for senators and house members to coordinate. I can appreciate now why our local rep said they would limit their nominations to only each applicant's #1 choice. In some cases (heck, maybe in a lot of cases) there can be a big difference between being 3Q'd and being competitive nationally.
From my understanding as well, WP is not obligated to go down the slate, but early in the process, they would most likely go to number 2 or 3. Last year, my DD was told by her RC that if the principal declined, she would get the offer since she was ranked number on the slate by WCS. Now if it is early June and they are passed #4 on the list, this is where they would most likely look somewhere else to fill the class but again no one knows for sure.
The best advice is that you are still competing. It does not matter where your MOC put you on his list if you are not the principal. Your WCS ranks you on the NWL and their is no numerical component in the WCS that accounts for where your MOC ranked you.
The best advice is that you are still competing. It does not matter where your MOC put you on his list if you are not the principal. Your WCS ranks you on the NWL and their is no numerical component in the WCS that accounts for where your MOC ranked you.
5Day
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Unless someone here is on USMA admissions we do not really know how they handle a ranked slate. We do know that USMA must admit a minimally qualified principal nominee, but how they select from the rest of a ranked slate or a competitive slate is just assumption and based on USMA policy that is not public. Here is what is public and the regulation that governs from the CFT https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/32/575.3
(a)Congressional / Gubernatorial Nomination.
(1) Up to 10 nominations may be submitted for each vacancy. Nominating authorities may use one of three methods of nomination:
(i) Name 10 nominees on a totally competitive basis,
(ii) Name a principal nominee, with nine competing alternates, or
(iii) Name a principal nominee, with nine alternates in order of preference.
(2) The priority that a fully qualified candidate may receive when considered for appointment is actually governed by the method of nomination used. For example, a principal nominee who is found minimally qualified must be offered an appointment. Conversely, the same individual nominated on a totally competitive basis, may be ranked as one of the least qualified nominees for that vacancy and, consequently, may not be offered an appointment. Many nominating authorities hold preliminary competitive nomination examinations to select their nominees. Those selected are required to be actual residents of the geographic location represented by the nominating authority.
(a)Congressional / Gubernatorial Nomination.
(1) Up to 10 nominations may be submitted for each vacancy. Nominating authorities may use one of three methods of nomination:
(i) Name 10 nominees on a totally competitive basis,
(ii) Name a principal nominee, with nine competing alternates, or
(iii) Name a principal nominee, with nine alternates in order of preference.
(2) The priority that a fully qualified candidate may receive when considered for appointment is actually governed by the method of nomination used. For example, a principal nominee who is found minimally qualified must be offered an appointment. Conversely, the same individual nominated on a totally competitive basis, may be ranked as one of the least qualified nominees for that vacancy and, consequently, may not be offered an appointment. Many nominating authorities hold preliminary competitive nomination examinations to select their nominees. Those selected are required to be actual residents of the geographic location represented by the nominating authority.
Just to be clear - according to the info that you've given, your MOC submitted a "Principal with Competing Alternates' slate which lists the Principal and then the rest on the slate are ranked by WCS. Different that what the OP's MOC submitted.
So, in your DD's case, if the Principal was not 3Q'd, then the candidate on the slate with the highest WCS and is 3Q'd - would be offered the appointment. All the rest that are 3Q'd would go on the NWL.
In the OP's case - it DOES matter where the MOC put them on the list.
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What I explained is according to how the Admissions Department explains the process.
Nothing I said contradicts what you cited.
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I do not believe this is the case.
As stated earlier, you'd have to be on the committee to know for sure, but my feeling is that after the principal the academies give the appointment to whomever they choose. That being #2 or #10 on a ranked slate.
I believe that within the law, they will do as they please without concern for MOC lists or wishes (after principal).
What I explained before comes straight from the Admissions Dept. Is there a specific situation that leads you to believe otherwise?
The slate that USMA 1994's DD was on (based on the info they gave) was that their MOC did not submit a ranked slate. They submitted a Principal with competitive alternates (unranked). Therefore on that kind of slate, the Principal is offered the appt - if 3Q'd. If not 3Q'd, then they offer to the next candidate on the slate with the highest WCS that is 3Q'd.
The OP's MOC has a different slate - Prinicpal with ranked.
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Right. I don't think they were given the real scoop. There is a public answer and a private SOP. All in my humble opinion.
I think the difference is that even though the MOC submitted a ranked slate, if the principal accepts, the ranking from the MOC has no future bearing. All qualified candidates go on the NWL and that ranking is by WCS. That is what I was trying to convey.