Reapplicants beware (all academies)

Maplerock

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You were rejected once already. What makes you think that the second time will be a charm?

High school is a much easier place to build a stellar gpa and extracurricular resume than college. You have already put your heart and soul into your application once, and now you have to do it again.

The actual application will be easier. You know the ropes. Heck, you can even use lots of the info on the new applications. You know the congressional part too. If you got a nomination once, you can probably do it again.

The problem is, you have absolutely no control over the admissions committee and the secret sauce they use on the application process. They didn't want you this year, so why would they want you next year? You're probably the same sex and race as last time. You may include a semester of great college grades, but it's doubtful you'll crush the leadership and athletic components. High school is easier for that.

You have perseverance, and everyone loves that. Will that be enough? Maybe. Reapplicants do get in. I'd love to see the numbers though. I've seen the posts from successful reapps. I've also seen posts from folks turned down twice, going for three!

So why write this? To discourage you? No. Just don't get the idea that you'll be automatic. You won't. Remember that there are other ways to get a commission. Maybe that's for you. I imagine there was some great heartache out there after your TWE. If you do decide to work hard and put your faith in the admissions committee, best of luck to you.

I do believe hard work pays off, but sometimes the payoff isn't the one you expect.
 
Wow, this is really painful to read, but ALL of it true. Thank you for this, and best of luck to all Re-applicants! CLASS OF 2023
 
I am not sure I agree with the line of reasoning here. We do know what the "special sauce" that admissions is looking for. They release the class profile each year and the appointment and nomination process is a matter of public law.

The Academies regularly publish that approximately 25% of each incoming class has an additional year of education beyond high school.

The application process also favors re-applicants as they are awarded WCS points for college that are not available for high school applicants. This is why it is difficult for high school applicants to compete from the NWL.

If you participate in ROTC, you may also have an additional nomination source.

The one thing out of your control is who you are competing against in any given year. That can go either way. One of the districts I support in a rather competitive area had five strong 3Q candidates for the Class of 2021. Three of them were admitted and two received TWEs. This year, that same district has no 3Q with a nomination candidates. If the two who were rejected in 2021 applied this year, at least one of them would have been admitted.

I do agree that it is not automatic. A successful semester of college will not overcome a rather weak application but that semester can take a strong candidate and put them over the top.

It is Ok to be sad and mourn about the TWE. You have worked extremely hard and should be proud that you got this far.

The next step is an honest self-assessment on your application. If you are honest with yourself, you know what things you have to improve. A discussion with your BGO/FFR/ALO can also help here.

If the academy is truly your dream, you should never give up. You may have to work harder next year to overcome whatever shortcomings your initial application had.
 
This is the unfortunate truth. Every year we see horror stories of the candidate who had 780 SATs, a 4.0 GPA , was a varsity team captain and an eagle scout, and still got turned down. In that case, what more could they have done? The fact is part of the admissions outcome is beyond the candidate's control.

When I chose to re-apply, I knew I had a weak spot in my application that I could improve on. If I'd already submitted the strongest application I was capable of, I would not have re-applied, because I'd just be hoping to get lucky that maybe fewer people within my district applied or that there are two vacancies to be filled.
 
Appointment to any service academy is in many ways a so-called "crap shoot". Many candidates that don't receive an appointment each year are certainly in the top category of each of the published demographic class profiles as it pertains to academics, leadership, community service, athletics, and test scores. How competitive you are is fundamentally a factor of where YOU fit into the admission committee's vision for any year's freshman class based on the application that represents you.
 
As a college re-applicant, I'll tell you what the secret sauce is. It's service. Plain and simple. Didn't get in the first time? Apply for ROTC or PLC or the like. Every interview I had the second time around asked me what I would do if I didn't get in again. My reply was always that it's about the desire to serve my country and that I would do that by any commissioning source available to me, I just wanted USNA to be one of them.

Whether you're a prior enlisted, college re-applicant, or direct, the Academy is looking for candidates that want to serve above all else, not want to go to the Academy above all else. After some reflection after my rejection I realized that's what my issue was, I said a lot about how much I wanted to go the Academy in my essays and interviews, not a lot about how much I wanted to serve. That got fixed next time around. I certainly believe academics, athletics, and leadership opportunities are important to the application process, but I think they're all secondary to the desire to serve. Just my .02.
 
As a college re-applicant, I'll tell you what the secret sauce is. It's service. Plain and simple. Didn't get in the first time? Apply for ROTC or PLC or the like. Every interview I had the second time around asked me what I would do if I didn't get in again. My reply was always that it's about the desire to serve my country and that I would do that by any commissioning source available to me, I just wanted USNA to be one of them.

Whether you're a prior enlisted, college re-applicant, or direct, the Academy is looking for candidates that want to serve above all else, not want to go to the Academy above all else. After some reflection after my rejection I realized that's what my issue was, I said a lot about how much I wanted to go the Academy in my essays and interviews, not a lot about how much I wanted to serve. That got fixed next time around. I certainly believe academics, athletics, and leadership opportunities are important to the application process, but I think they're all secondary to the desire to serve. Just my .02.

While I do agree USNA is searching primarily for those who want to serve rather than those who want to go to the academy, there is some contradiction in what you're saying. Take me for example, a NROTC scholarship MIDN. I have already secured a path to commission and serve. I was turned down by USNA when I applied out of high school. If I chose to re-apply, how can I claim that my overarching motive in applying to USNA is to serve? I already have a path to serve, and one that would allow me to get to my goal quicker than going USNA. For re-applicants in my case, I believe it's more important to identify why USNA is a better fit for them than the officer accession program they are currently a part of.

Claiming all you want to do is serve when you're already on a path to serve doesn't make any sense to me and that is why I wholeheartedly disagree with that assertion.
 
The problem is, you have absolutely no control over the admissions committee and the secret sauce they use on the application process

How competitive you are is fundamentally a factor of where YOU fit into the admission committee's vision for any year's freshman class based on the application that represents you.

I don't agree with either of these statements. The published Class Profile is really a good indicator of the "secret sauce" Admissions is looking at, and I suspect it doesn't change all that much. Unlike "normal" colleges, the Admissions Committee's "vision" does not change radically each year. Sure, the Superintendent does have some influence on the direction the Admissions Board goes, perhaps emphasizing one factor over another, but the process is like a large ship ---it doesn't turn quickly and there is a lot of historical momentum to overcome. The bottom line is that a lot of very good candidates get the TWE because there was someone that had more of the "special sauce" , whether it be grades, SAT's, athletics, leadership positions, than they did.

There is a great sticky at the top of this page that talks about reapplication, and I would encourage anyone who got the TWE to review it. A lot of people reapply and are admitted on their second, and even third attempts. Perseverance may be a factor, but the Candidate should honestly assess his /her strengths and weaknesses. It doesn't make sense to reapply when you really aren't competitive. I frequently hear parents say that "DS /DD wants it so bad" or "DS has been looking forward to this his whole life..", but a comparison to the Class profile reveals that he/she really isn't competitive. Finally, keep in mind that the competition changes every year -- that person with more special sauce is out of the way, but the next year may bring greater (or less ) competition. All you can do is present your best application, then let the chips fall.
 
You were rejected once already. What makes you think that the second time will be a charm?

Dean Latta has been very clear about his regard for reapplicants. When admissions is evaluating candidates, they are looking for evidence of an aptitude and capability for leadership, which can largely be demonstrated empirically. But of course they are also looking for evidence of the candidate's ability to succeed in a collegiate setting with multiple demands on time and energy. This is an inherently predictive exercise, meaning they are examining standardized test scores, performance in AP class, and factoring in the good opinion of junior year teachers to PREDICT academic success at the collegiate level. But the fact remains that nothing is a better predictor of academic success at the collegiate level... than ACTUAL success at that level. So candidates that enroll in a four-year college, simulate the coursework of a plebe, and if possible, simulate (through ROTC, e.g.) the military responsibilities of a plebe become a known commodity to admissions. That doesn't guarantee an appointment, just as the OP said, but it does remove a certain amount of subjectivity which in turn makes the appointment decision - positively or negatively - easier.

I disagree with the notion that you cannot continue to demonstrate athletic, civic or campus leadership as a college student. There are myriad opportunities to do exactly that. And the things you achieve as a candidate in high school are still relevant and fresh and actively considered during subsequent candidacies.
 
DD had Company Mid Officer that made it after three years of college. Started all over again as a Plebe but tried every year to get an appointment. DS had TWE twice but got his commission through USNR through NROTC and now LT and merchant marine. There are many ways. Try every door.
 
It's hard to see so many highly talented kids get turned down. I've read here that some BGOs have interviewed candidates and that after the interview they felt the candidate didn't truly have the desire to serve, the drive, or some other factor that didn't go over well enough for his/her recommendation. This is only one small example, and by no means am I suggesting any reason or my opinion on why ANY candidate gets TWE, only bringing other ideas to the discussion beyond the basic competition of the slate and pure stats.

So I believe other factors often get overlooked as to why some stellar "near perfect " candidates get the TWE. No one knows how the BGO or other interviews are scored, how the essays are scored and viewed or the LORs from teachers are for a given candidate. IMO these can be a deal breaker in some cases, or possibly just something that doesn't elevate a candidate above the competition, and no one outside admissions will ever know. These are every bit as important and maybe more important than pure stats. All Candidates need to do really well in these areas as well to set themselves apart from sometimes near equal competition. This falls under the "Control what you can control" advice that's often mentioned. So future applicants and reapplicants, continue to excel in all areas of your stats, but also practice your interviewing skills, polish your essays, and stay well acquainted and in good standing with those giving you the required LORs!

I wish nothing but the best for all of those receiving TWEs, and if an SA is where you truly want to be, take all of the advice given to reapplicants and reapply! I continue to be amazed at all of the highly talented kids on this forum , and hope they reach their dreams!
 
I agree with all of Maplerock messages above. I would also add, that while "The published Class Profile is really a good indicator of the "secret sauce" Admissions is looking at, and I suspect it doesn't change all that much.", that's not the whole story as there are plenty of people that are in the sweet spot of the published class profile yet they don't get admitted. Why? In my view, there aren't enough slots available for everyone who fits the Class Profile. Some of it is who is competing with you and whether they are college re-applicants also. See the quote below for a successful third attempt re-applicant.

“After failing to receive a nomination for the second consecutive year in 2016, I was devastated. I truly thought that my chances of going to the Naval Academy were over. I did not think I would apply again because I would be forced to restart my undergraduate degree and forego two years of college education,” explained Mr. Brodowicz. “However, this summer I decided to reapply for two reasons. The first is my burning desire to join the camaraderie and brotherhood within the halls of Bancroft. The second reason for reapplying is the Naval Academy will prepare me to become an Officer and give me the best opportunity to pursue my lifelong goal of becoming a Naval Aviator.”

“What incredible, remarkable perseverance,” said Congressman Pittenger. “Life is hard, and often unfair. Some get knocked down and give up. Those who truly succeed get knocked down multiple times but keep trying. Josh is an inspiration.”
 
You were rejected once already. What makes you think that the second time will be a charm?

Dean Latta has been very clear about his regard for reapplicants. When admissions is evaluating candidates, they are looking for evidence of an aptitude and capability for leadership, which can largely be demonstrated empirically. But of course they are also looking for evidence of the candidate's ability to succeed in a collegiate setting with multiple demands on time and energy. This is an inherently predictive exercise, meaning they are examining standardized test scores, performance in AP class, and factoring in the good opinion of junior year teachers to PREDICT academic success at the collegiate level. But the fact remains that nothing is a better predictor of academic success at the collegiate level... than ACTUAL success at that level. So candidates that enroll in a four-year college, simulate the coursework of a plebe, and if possible, simulate (through ROTC, e.g.) the military responsibilities of a plebe become a known commodity to admissions. That doesn't guarantee an appointment, just as the OP said, but it does remove a certain amount of subjectivity which in turn makes the appointment decision - positively or negatively - easier.

I disagree with the notion that you cannot continue to demonstrate athletic, civic or campus leadership as a college student. There are myriad opportunities to do exactly that. And the things you achieve as a candidate in high school are still relevant and fresh and actively considered during subsequent candidacies.


Dean Latta huh? Disagree all you like, but after a turndown (April/May), and the fall semester beginning in August or September, a candidate has about six months to raise grades, increase eca's, and improve physically. Plus, if you take challenging classes, really challenging classes... the potential for a slip in gpa is there.

There are plenty of disappointed reapplicants. I dont have the numbers, but I'd bet significantly more are turned down than appointed.
 
The problem is, you have absolutely no control over the admissions committee and the secret sauce they use on the application process

How competitive you are is fundamentally a factor of where YOU fit into the admission committee's vision for any year's freshman class based on the application that represents you.

I don't agree with either of these statements. The published Class Profile is really a good indicator of the "secret sauce" Admissions is looking at, and I suspect it doesn't change all that much. Unlike "normal" colleges, the Admissions Committee's "vision" does not change radically each year. Sure, the Superintendent does have some influence on the direction the Admissions Board goes, perhaps emphasizing one factor over another, but the process is like a large ship ---it doesn't turn quickly and there is a lot of historical momentum to overcome. The bottom line is that a lot of very good candidates get the TWE because there was someone that had more of the "special sauce" , whether it be grades, SAT's, athletics, leadership positions, than they did.

There is a great sticky at the top of this page that talks about reapplication, and I would encourage anyone who got the TWE to review it. A lot of people reapply and are admitted on their second, and even third attempts. Perseverance may be a factor, but the Candidate should honestly assess his /her strengths and weaknesses. It doesn't make sense to reapply when you really aren't competitive. I frequently hear parents say that "DS /DD wants it so bad" or "DS has been looking forward to this his whole life..", but a comparison to the Class profile reveals that he/she really isn't competitive. Finally, keep in mind that the competition changes every year -- that person with more special sauce is out of the way, but the next year may bring greater (or less ) competition. All you can do is present your best application, then let the chips fall.

You said it, "let the chips fall."

It's a shame to have to rely on falling chips. That profile is top loaded with crazy high scores that allow some low scores to get into the mix. Example: Two candidates that averaged 1350 on the SAT. One had a 1600, the other had an 1100. The public doesn't get a true picture of the innerworkings. All IMHO.
 
suddensam is spot on. Admissions and the Admissions Board are looking for leaders who can survive in a rigorous academic and time-filled environment. The BEST way to prove it is to DEMONSTRATE it...that is the secret sauce! If you are a college re-applicant and seek to be competitive, it isn't just enough to get good grades in plebe-like courses...that must be done while in a time-demanding schedule (that means continuing with ECAs or doing things like participating in ROTC). Most colleges also have summer school...another great option to add a few courses in addition to the fall semester.

I was a college re-applicant...I believe the reason I was appointed was the combination of solid plebe-like courses AND the various ECAs/sports I participated in; not one or the other.
There are no guarantees in any SA admissions process...but you want try to remove as much doubt [to handle the USNA program] as you can from those reviewing your record.
 
suddensam is spot on. Admissions and the Admissions Board are looking for leaders who can survive in a rigorous academic and time-filled environment. The BEST way to prove it is to DEMONSTRATE it...that is the secret sauce! If you are a college re-applicant and seek to be competitive, it isn't just enough to get good grades in plebe-like courses...that must be done while in a time-demanding schedule (that means continuing with ECAs or doing things like participating in ROTC). Most colleges also have summer school...another great option to add a few courses in addition to the fall semester.

I was a college re-applicant...I believe the reason I was appointed was the combination of solid plebe-like courses AND the various ECAs/sports I participated in; not one or the other.
There are no guarantees in any SA admissions process...but you want try to remove as much doubt [to handle the USNA program] as you can from those reviewing your record.

And, even if a candidate has it all, the secret sauce, athletics, numerous leadership roles, work experience, top grades, loaded coursework, excellent test scores, community service, Naval legacy, and well liked by peers, faculty, organizations, there IS still luck that plays a part in the puzzle. It’s a fact. Because all it takes is for that one other candidate to come along and have a bit of advantage (and could even be less qualified) with even a slightly different or more interesting background. Then, it’s gone.

I give a ton of credit to re-applicants! The process can absolutely suck the life out of candidates and their families. To go at it a second or even third time, wow. The thought even wears me out as a parent!!

I’m grateful to God that the different path given to my DS is an exceptional opportunity. :)
 
You were rejected once already. What makes you think that the second time will be a charm?

High school is a much easier place to build a stellar gpa and extracurricular resume than college. You have already put your heart and soul into your application once, and now you have to do it again.

The actual application will be easier. You know the ropes. Heck, you can even use lots of the info on the new applications. You know the congressional part too. If you got a nomination once, you can probably do it again.

The problem is, you have absolutely no control over the admissions committee and the secret sauce they use on the application process. They didn't want you this year, so why would they want you next year? You're probably the same sex and race as last time. You may include a semester of great college grades, but it's doubtful you'll crush the leadership and athletic components. High school is easier for that.

You have perseverance, and everyone loves that. Will that be enough? Maybe. Reapplicants do get in. I'd love to see the numbers though. I've seen the posts from successful reapps. I've also seen posts from folks turned down twice, going for three!

So why write this? To discourage you? No. Just don't get the idea that you'll be automatic. You won't. Remember that there are other ways to get a commission. Maybe that's for you. I imagine there was some great heartache out there after your TWE. If you do decide to work hard and put your faith in the admissions committee, best of luck to you.

I do believe hard work pays off, but sometimes the payoff isn't the one you expect.
I would like to say that I was rejected from a service academy last year. I decided it was the only place I wanted to go so I decided to attend a prep school as a post grad to get my GPA and test scores up. I got my GPA up and my test scores got better by a couple of points. I reapplied again this year and got accepted right away. Admissions really does like to see you do an extra year if you were rejected the first time because it shows you have the drive and motivation to be a part of the academy. I would encourage anyone who has the minimum requirements and really wants to attend a service academy to consider doing an extra year and reapplying again.
 
Are chances lower for reapplicants??? Talked with Usna counselor a while ago and she said that # of reapplicants is around 2000-5000. If around 80 reapplicants were selected (not including NAPS kids) are the odds lower? Or are most of these reapplicants probably not improving on their previous application?
 
Are chances lower for reapplicants??? Talked with Usna counselor a while ago and she said that # of reapplicants is around 2000-5000. If around 80 reapplicants were selected (not including NAPS kids) are the odds lower? Or are most of these reapplicants probably not improving on their previous application?

I think it is pretty well established that USNA looks favorably on reapplicants. That being said, there are too many variables involved to determine whether the chances /odds are higher or lower. A weak candidate is always going to be weak candidate, and chances aren't going to improve significantly with reapplication unless there is some material change (for example, weaker SAT's, but go to a tough college and kick a$$). On the other hand, a strong candidate that's in the running until the end, then goes to Plan B college (with or without ROTC) and does well in STEM, will have an upper hand. I think the most important step in any consideration is an honest self-appraisal of strengths and weaknesses, and what can be done to address them.
 
Are chances lower for reapplicants??? Talked with Usna counselor a while ago and she said that # of reapplicants is around 2000-5000. If around 80 reapplicants were selected (not including NAPS kids) are the odds lower? Or are most of these reapplicants probably not improving on their previous application?

The data is not really available to make a fair comparison. The Academies typically count everyone that opens a file as an applicant and that does not mean that much.For an example, in four congressional districts in Texas, I see 173 "Opened" files for the class of 2022 at USMA. As that really breaks down, more than half of the list did nothing except answer the preliminary file then only about half of those kids complete their file. So now we are around 40 applicants and that gets reduced again through the nomination process. A list of 173 quickly gets cut to 30 or 40.

Re-applicants have an advantage if they had a strong application to start with. If they were close and just got beat out by a stronger candidate, the extra college boost can push them over the top, BUT as many others have said, that extra semester of college will not guarantee an appointment for a weaker applicant. The applicant has to be committed to at least maintaining and most likely improving.

An honest self-assessment can really tell you all you need to know. Admissions can help confirm what you need to improve but the data is all published for the assessment.
 
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