Reapplying to USNA (after a turndown)

Chem is the Plebe killer. Physics is the Youngster one.

Just remember, there are a ton of resources on campus, and the professors all hold office hours to assist any student that asks. Unless someone is just atrocious at a subject, there are so many ways to get help. They want you to pass, and will do whatever they can to help you get there. *




* That doesn't mean there aren't some mediocre/questionable professors. You hear stories of those.
 
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I applied for the USNA class of 27 and 28 and will now be applying for the class of 29.

I had the opportunity to work for a D1 sports team during my freshman year of college (often working more than 50 hours a week). I tried to do Army ROTC (my university doesn't have NROTC), but the ROTC lab is held on the same days as our games, so I unfortunately couldn't join. You all might be questioning my motives, but if I don't receive an appointment at USNA, I plan to join the military on a different route (Army Veterinary Corps). I am going to join Air Force ROTC as a sophomore in college. If I explain this to my BGO, will the message be relayed so the admissions board can see this?

Additionally, I tried my best to replicate a plebe-like schedule as much as possible. I took calc 1 this past school year with English and my major's science class (as well as some gen eds). I tried to take calc 2 next semester, but there is absolutely no way it will fit into my schedule if I want to take chem 1, my major's required class, and the AFROTC classes (I have to take double because I am starting as a sophomore). So next semester, I am taking Chemistry 1 (with lab), my science class for my major (with lab), finite math (instead of calc 2), and a history class.

The moral of the story: do you think USNA will hold this against me/view this poorly? With all that being said, it doesn't mean I am any less dedicated to military service, and I really cannot stress enough how badly I want to go to an academy. I hope they understand that I can't put all my eggs in one basket and that life doesn't stop just because I didn't receive an appointment.
 
Chem is the Plebe killer. Physics is the Youngster one.

Just remember, there are a ton of resources on campus, and the professors all hold office hours to assist any student that asks. Unless someone is just atrocious at a subject, there are so many ways to get help. They want you to pass, and will do whatever they can to help you get there. *




* That doesn't mean there aren't some mediocre/questionable professors. You hear stories of those.
The Mids at Kings Point have to take Physics Plebey year because they go out for their sea year 3/C year.
 
I did not receive a nomination for C/O 28 and was turned down 4/16. I knew my chances of direct entry were extremely slim, but frankly was shocked that I didn't receive NAPS (or even NAPS waitlist). I only say this because my profile really seemed to fit what USNA looks for in NAPS, and my BGO thought I had a really good shot. Anyway, onward and upward. I will be a programmer in NROTC and participating in a D1 sport next year, however I learned today that most likely the highest math I will be able to do next fall is College Algebra/Trig. The college I am attending is heavy engineering, so they are pretty strict on Math placement. I will be able to take Chem and essentially mirror the plebe year as much as possible, but wondering if the experts think that this will really hurt my chances when I reapply. My verbal score was just over 700, but was never able to crack 530 on the Math portion (that's the reason for my placement). I did receive a B in pre-calculus, but the university is holding firm. Not trying to be negative, but starting to wonder with my Math scores that my best shot at Annapolis pretty much ended on 4/16 since I know that NAPS and foundation are pretty much out of the picture now. Is it possible that even with the lower math class that improving my SAT scores along with an A in College Algebra will be looked upon favorably, or am I hosed?
 
I did not receive a nomination for C/O 28 and was turned down 4/16. I knew my chances of direct entry were extremely slim, but frankly was shocked that I didn't receive NAPS (or even NAPS waitlist). I only say this because my profile really seemed to fit what USNA looks for in NAPS, and my BGO thought I had a really good shot. Anyway, onward and upward. I will be a programmer in NROTC and participating in a D1 sport next year, however I learned today that most likely the highest math I will be able to do next fall is College Algebra/Trig. The college I am attending is heavy engineering, so they are pretty strict on Math placement. I will be able to take Chem and essentially mirror the plebe year as much as possible, but wondering if the experts think that this will really hurt my chances when I reapply. My verbal score was just over 700, but was never able to crack 530 on the Math portion (that's the reason for my placement). I did receive a B in pre-calculus, but the university is holding firm. Not trying to be negative, but starting to wonder with my Math scores that my best shot at Annapolis pretty much ended on 4/16 since I know that NAPS and foundation are pretty much out of the picture now. Is it possible that even with the lower math class that improving my SAT scores along with an A in College Algebra will be looked upon favorably, or am I hosed?
I wonder if you could retake the SAT over the summer and see if you can get a high enough math score to be placed into calculus. Try emailing your college academic advisor and explaining that you will be retaking the SAT and asking if it is possible to use that score for your placement.
 
Interesting to listen about how the class of 2028 potentially will have a make-up of 40% re-applicants, up from 26-30%:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60iI7N5jRtQ&t=180shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60iI7N5jRtQ&t=180s
I responded to your dupe post in another thread with current discussion thread link:
Thread '40% of class are re-applicants!'
https://www.serviceacademyforums.com/index.php?threads/40-of-class-are-re-applicants.95174/

That is an unofficial source doing a lot of speculating. We will have to wait and see the official class profile come out.
 
DD is working on Fall class schedule now. NROTC scholarship for ME major has her taking Physics and not Chemistry. She will have a full load with the standard NROTC classes to take; English, US Military History, Calc, Intro to Navy Science, and Physics. Chem will push her over 18 credits. Is this necessary? Or should she swap out Physics for Chem?
 
The source is unofficial, but I generally agree with his point: Many, if not most, high-school grads are not ready for challenging college curriculums (not to mention the additional non-academic rigors of an SA). I say this as a college professor who sees a profound difference between college freshmen and sophomores. Freshmen are essentially overgrown high-school seniors -- especially in the covid era -- and they have a lot to figure out. Namely, that what worked in high school won't necessarily work in college. Something does click for most of them during that first year, and they approach things differently as sophomores.

Now, some of you are thinking: "But SA applicants are different. They're the best of the best..." and so on. I don't necessarily buy that, and I say this as the father of an SA grad. Sure, SA applicants as a whole might be better adjusted, but the SAs as a whole are even tougher. So it's all relative, and it makes sense to me that SAs believe a non-direct applicant might be more likely to succeed.

If SAs believe non-directs will do better and become superior officers, it's their prerogative to appoint more of them. As they say, at least at USNA, it's N*OT COLLEGE.
 
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I think I've read through this entire thread and was tempted to start a new one, but decided to be a good forum member and continue the discussion here. I have a son who was not offered an appointment for the class of 2028. He's moving forward with NROTC and is reporting for NSI tomorrow. He's keeping an open mind about NROTC and is excited to begin with his unit. He knows that he has our support either way, but I think his heart is still at the Academy.

I'm aware of the basic recommendations such as taking a plebe-like schedule and the importance of his first semester grades. As a result, he's repeating several classes that he took as AP courses in high school. His thought is that it is better to solidify those concepts and walk away with a strong GPA. Plus, he'll be taking 19 credit hours. He's not afraid of going a non-traditional route and even took the SAT again after graduation, bringing up his score from a superscore 1280 to a single test score of 1430.

What else can we learn from successful reapplicants? How can I best support him as a parent?
 
I think I've read through this entire thread and was tempted to start a new one, but decided to be a good forum member and continue the discussion here. I have a son who was not offered an appointment for the class of 2028. He's moving forward with NROTC and is reporting for NSI tomorrow. He's keeping an open mind about NROTC and is excited to begin with his unit. He knows that he has our support either way, but I think his heart is still at the Academy.

I'm aware of the basic recommendations such as taking a plebe-like schedule and the importance of his first semester grades. As a result, he's repeating several classes that he took as AP courses in high school. His thought is that it is better to solidify those concepts and walk away with a strong GPA. Plus, he'll be taking 19 credit hours. He's not afraid of going a non-traditional route and even took the SAT again after graduation, bringing up his score from a superscore 1280 to a single test score of 1430.

What else can we learn from successful reapplicants? How can I best support him as a parent?
Presumably he has read this during his research on reapplication:

He can earn a ROTC nomination from his NROTC PNS, to go with the usual 4 he is reapplying for (3 MOC, VP), plus any others. He should update his essays for applications all around to demonstrate growth, new personal insights, etc.

He should think strategically about this, commit to giving 100% as a forward-leaning, hit the deck running new midshipman. Always early to scheduled events. Always a hard worker with a positive attitude. Always a strong performer at fitness events. Emerges as both a reliable team member and peer leader. Always well-groomed with a squared-away uniform. Academically, does what he needs to do, with no loitering around the borderline. Volunteers for unit projects or the ones no one wants to spend time one. Be the midshipman known to help others who might be struggling rather than shine a light on himself. Keep his mouth shut about USNA reapplication until he has established himself and built a strong, top-performer reputation in the most junior group at the unit. Do not let the first interaction with the PNS or chain of command be, “Sir or ma’am, I need you to nominate me for USNA.” There may well be others, and the PNS’ endorsement via a nom will be the professional opinion of a senior officer.

I’ll page @GWU PNS (emeritus) for former-PNS insight of how this can be strategically and tactically accomplished in the most professional way.

And, your son should allow himself the mental room to fall in love with his unit, the school and realize he has found his tribe, and not worry one bit if he decides to let USNA go. That is perfectly fine. NROTC, just like USNA and OCS, produces outstanding, good, mediocre and poor officers. His goal should be the first, on the path that suits him best.

As for you supporting him, it’s time for your own transition from active parenting to trusted consultant, available as needed. A practical thing to do is to teach him how to make his own travel plans, a basic life skill for any military officer. You can still be the bank. He can start building miles/points in affinity programs on his own.
 
"And, your son should allow himself the mental room to fall in love with his unit, the school and realize he has found his tribe, and not worry one bit if he decides to let USNA go. That is perfectly fine. NROTC, just like USNA and OCS, produces outstanding, good, mediocre and poor officers. His goal should be the first, on the path that suits him best."

Beautifully said!
Thanks from all of us, Capt MJ!!
 
I am reapplying from last year after a turndown and I had some questions regarding the SAT. I submitted a 1220 last year and I took it again after graduation and have a 1360 (710 r/w 650m) now. I could do better on the math but I would have to take it again during the fall. I was thinking that college grades are much more important and I should focus my time on that rather than studying for the SAT in September/October. 650 is not ideal but I'd rather have that with an A in Chem and Calc rather than a 690 with a B in both of those subjects because I decided to study for the SAT while trying to study for chem and calc. Should I retake the SAT though if I could do a little better? Also, how many reapplicants actually complete the application?
 
Presumably he has read this during his research on reapplication:

He can earn a ROTC nomination from his NROTC PNS, to go with the usual 4 he is reapplying for (3 MOC, VP), plus any others. He should update his essays for applications all around to demonstrate growth, new personal insights, etc.

He should think strategically about this, commit to giving 100% as a forward-leaning, hit the deck running new midshipman. Always early to scheduled events. Always a hard worker with a positive attitude. Always a strong performer at fitness events. Emerges as both a reliable team member and peer leader. Always well-groomed with a squared-away uniform. Academically, does what he needs to do, with no loitering around the borderline. Volunteers for unit projects or the ones no one wants to spend time one. Be the midshipman known to help others who might be struggling rather than shine a light on himself. Keep his mouth shut about USNA reapplication until he has established himself and built a strong, top-performer reputation in the most junior group at the unit. Do not let the first interaction with the PNS or chain of command be, “Sir or ma’am, I need you to nominate me for USNA.” There may well be others, and the PNS’ endorsement via a nom will be the professional opinion of a senior officer.

I’ll page @GWU PNS (emeritus) for former-PNS insight of how this can be strategically and tactically accomplished in the most professional way.

And, your son should allow himself the mental room to fall in love with his unit, the school and realize he has found his tribe, and not worry one bit if he decides to let USNA go. That is perfectly fine. NROTC, just like USNA and OCS, produces outstanding, good, mediocre and poor officers. His goal should be the first, on the path that suits him best.

As for you supporting him, it’s time for your own transition from active parenting to trusted consultant, available as needed. A practical thing to do is to teach him how to make his own travel plans, a basic life skill for any military officer. You can still be the bank. He can start building miles/points in affinity programs on his own.
Thank you for such thoughtful comments and suggestions. We're taking every word to heart.
 
I am reapplying from last year after a turndown and I had some questions regarding the SAT. I submitted a 1220 last year and I took it again after graduation and have a 1360 (710 r/w 650m) now. I could do better on the math but I would have to take it again during the fall. I was thinking that college grades are much more important and I should focus my time on that rather than studying for the SAT in September/October. 650 is not ideal but I'd rather have that with an A in Chem and Calc rather than a 690 with a B in both of those subjects because I decided to study for the SAT while trying to study for chem and calc. Should I retake the SAT though if I could do a little better? Also, how many reapplicants actually complete the application?
Kid got in with a 1250 (630/620). It not all about the standardized test scores. He's a math major maintaining a 3.0 GPA rising into his 2/C year.
 
So I got turned down from being on the waitlist for NAPS. Here is some info about me as I am planning to re-apply next year and want to make sure my app. is even better.

I called them today after hearing about the turn down. Thy told me to take classes that translate to their freshman year classes, I told them that I was now committed to a college, so they told me to just do the best in the classes they offer and try to make them as similar to freshman year. (they told me dual-enrollment online classes arent needed). In addition, they said that the biggest factors that hurt me were my CFA and SAT scores. My CFA was mid for the most part (8 pullups, ~40-45 pushups and situps, 7:07 mile time). Currently I am working out a ton at the gym and at my job (beach surf camp instructor) and am starting to see progress. My SAT scores really sucked my highschool career (1040, both english and math were about equal with a difference of like 10-20). But I did state that I had to deal with adversity that was valid at the time and a unique life experience (was told to state that again most likely for the second application). For this, I am as of yesterday doing work on my SAT to make sure it is all good (DSAT now) by enrolling in this really good online course (Acely, its really good). They said my Grades were good and not really an issue, but one thing I fear is that they are going to see my senior grades from first semester. I got a C in Calculus and a C+ in Biology, my math teacher was brand new and could not control her class and my bio teacher was purposefully difficult. But second semester I got a A- in Calculus and a B- in Biology. Do you recommend I take any courses to make up the poorer grades first semester? Or does Second semester prove my true capability.


That was my explanation here is my game plan:

Over this summer (and already) work on SAT and Fitness for better scores

Get high grades in the college I am going to (I've been told the college I am going to is a lot better at getting high scores compared ot my high school, I got accepted into a Catholic College Prep school that is very strict and difficult in academics for preparation towards college)

(NROTC is not offered there, and Los Angeles does not have any cross-town NROTC programs as I have called both UCLA and USC, if I am wrong, someone please let me know if there is an NROTC program I can enter in Los Angeles)

Be involved in leadership anywhere possible that I am interested in

I am personally reading old navy books (1938-1950) to show additional proof of interest in the navy (books are good to read in general too)

I already have a letter of encouragement to re-apply for next year

Get into club or intramural sports (Water Polo and gym/weightlifting for sure. Cycling, sailing, or MMA practice without fights if possible)

And overall be a good students


Here are my questions (I will copy some from the paragraph summary I wrote):

Is there any cross-town NROTC in Los Angeles to attend?

Do you recommend I take any courses to make up the poorer grades first semester? Or does Second semester prove my true capability.

I have senior teachers that are willing to write letters of rec. for me towards the naval academy, does it matter whether or not I do a Senior vs College Freshman letter of rec?

Thoughts about my current status and plan?

Is there any advice or things I should in addition look for?
(and was this the right thread to post on?)
 
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