Reapplying to USNA (after a turndown)

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The Navy does “not send its selected appointees to an inferior program for training,” whether NAPS or a Foundation Scholarship prep school partner.

These are not USNA appointees - yet. They are candidates USNA thinks would benefit from the specific programs offered via the SA prep route, and as a vote of confidence in these candidates who were not offered an appointment to USNA in the current cycle but clearly have other attributes USNA values, they are given a free ride at NAPS or a substantial Foundation scholarship at a partner prep school. It’s a key-and-lock alignment. USNA is confident the sponsored prep route is exactly what these candidates need for a successful re-application process, and with successful completion of prep, it is highly likely an appointment will be offered.

There is no such expectation with non-sponsored prep, though successful prep completion can only be a positive. If a candidate is 100% certain that a prep path is exactly what they need to be successful, then it’s a fine way to go - but I don’t believe the SAs go into that level of detail in advising candidates of whether to go prep or college. Unless Admissions is explicit in telling a candidate why they were not successful in their application, self-sponsored prep may or may not be exactly the right path for any given candidate.

It’s not a question of inferiority. It’s what path is best for an individual - for many, attending a 4-year is the right path.
You guys are dancing around logic….first, please stop explaining expectations of a golden ticket vs not having one. It is irrelevant Other than the fact the USNA selected one over the other. Because it is absolutely a question of inferiority.

1) all candidates either:
- get appointed
- get sent to prep
- get TWE

are we in agreement? And each of these are ordered in superior order. The TWE being most inferior.

2) a candidate who gets prep opportunity is rated higher than a candidate who gets a TWE, do we still agree? (I sure hope the answer is yes)

USNA values these candidates and gave them a golden ticket. Superior to TWE

3) so USNA takes candidates who are higher rated than TWE candidates and sends them to a school you are stating is inferior to a four year college for the TWE folks When being considered for admission the following year.
this is where you lose me. That is embarrassing if that is true. and, yes, the navy does send their candidates to an inferior opportunity if we are to believe what you are saying.

and I get it. You keep repeating they “fell short” or “will benefit from one more year”. None of that matters, they were selected and given golden tickets because they were rated HIGHER than the TWEs. So however they fell short, it is less short than the TWEs.


someone selected from USNA to be rated higher than a TWE should be given the best opportunity and if a 4yr is better than a prep school, I fully expect USNA sends their selected candidates to the best school, not the worst. why would they send them to a school that is considered inferior for a TWE to attend?

and maybe you really are reflecting the position of the USNA. I firmly believe that you do not. I don’t believe the USNA would send higher rated candidates to an inferior option for the lower rated candidates. It simply makes no sense and would be embarrassing for the navy if true.

you both have stated, and I agree, that each individual scenario can be unique. Maybe someone needs a year of PT? Maybe someone needs academic growth as you pointed out. Prep school does it all. PT, academics, and military life training. And most of them have college level credits that do transfer even if you still don’t make it. USNA, USAFA, USMA, and others send their selections to these schools because they are better than a four year. Otherwise, they would simply send these valued candidates to a 4 yr And be done with it. to send their selected candidates to these schools and then value the schools lower than alternative schools is a poor reflection on the military and I don’t think the military would be that foolish.
 
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Another consideration is space. There are XX spots at USNA. There are XX spots at NAPS. And there are XX spots at sponsored prep.

Where you as a candidate fall into that placement can vary from year to year…depending on different factors such as how slates are presented (ie principal nom), targeted under represented areas, athletes, etc etc

The total number of spots available, can dictate where a candidate is placed. A candidate could be an offer one year, but could be a NAPS/PREP or TWE a different year.

An appointee/NAPS/sponsored prepster is in the que to attend USNA. All three get them there. And USNA has 3 different options available to them to get them there. The ‘1 yr’ extra candidate will be adequately prepared for USNA (assuming successful completion).

The rest are TWE’s. And in general, as stated by USNA, following a plebe like schedule is the best way to prepare to reapply.

BTW, they are kind of apples and oranges. One group is in que to attend USNA. They are selected. Chosen. The rest are not.

Im lost on this superior/inferior discussion. I really can’t follow it. Maybe it got off track. Maybe it’s a ‘preferred vs not preferred’ discussion instead?? Idk. But UNSA has stated how to best set yourself up for reapplying. And they have XXX spots in different programs to park their appointees they want parked for a year of prepping.

And an appointed candidate is not an superior *person* to a Naps/prep/TWE. AND a NAPS/prep/TWE is not an ‘inferior person’ to an appointee. Every year there are amazing candidates that don’t get appointed. There simply isn’t enough room.
 
2) a candidate who gets prep opportunity is rated higher than a candidate who gets a TWE, do we still agree? (I sure hope the answer is yes)

USNA values these candidates and gave them a golden ticket. Superior to TWE
^ There lies the fallacy of the argument. NAPS/Foundation prep is not a "second place award." In fact, there are many candidates getting the TWE who are every bit as qualified or even more so than the NAPS/Foundation prep candidate, and who really doesn't even need further academic preparation. Admission to USNA is competitive, and someone has to get the TWE. If they want to be more competitive on round 2, then they should follow the guidance promulgated by USNA and attend a four year college , if they can.

NAPS/Foundation candidates have something that USNA wants, but are "missing something." Sometimes the thing that USNA wants is athletics, sometimes just a good story and demonstration of grit that USNA thinks will turn them into a good officer, sometimes they spent time in overseas schools, etc. The NAPS /Foundation programs provide that "something", but keep in mind...those candidates may still not be as "good" as the direct admits or those reapplying from a 4 year school. I went to NAPS, albeit a long time ago, and the NAPS administration at the time made no bones about the fact that despite getting through the program, we were still behind many of our better prepared Classmates., i.e. we weren't as academically prepared, but that we had enough to get through USNA.
 
No, I don't agree with that statement.

Lots of TWE's are sent to really qualified applicants who don't need any prep, there just wasn't enough room for them at the table.
Prep scholarships are given to applicants on the bubble/NWL and they go to those who were rated highest.
 
You guys are dancing around logic….first, please stop explaining expectations of a golden ticket vs not having one. It is irrelevant Other than the fact the USNA selected one over the other. Because it is absolutely a question of inferiority.

1) all candidates either:
- get appointed
- get sent to prep
- get TWE

are we in agreement? And each of these are ordered in superior order. The TWE being most inferior.

2) a candidate who gets prep opportunity is rated higher than a candidate who gets a TWE, do we still agree? (I sure hope the answer is yes)

USNA values these candidates and gave them a golden ticket. Superior to TWE

3) so USNA takes candidates who are higher rated than TWE candidates and sends them to a school you are stating is inferior to a four year college for the TWE folks When being considered for admission the following year.
this is where you lose me. That is embarrassing if that is true. and, yes, the navy does send their candidates to an inferior opportunity if we are to believe what you are saying.

and I get it. You keep repeating they “fell short” or “will benefit from one more year”. None of that matters, they were selected and given golden tickets because they were rated HIGHER than the TWEs. So however they fell short, it is less short than the TWEs.


someone selected from USNA to be rated higher than a TWE should be given the best opportunity and if a 4yr is better than a prep school, I fully expect USNA sends their selected candidates to the best school, not the worst. why would they send them to a school that is considered inferior for a TWE to attend?

and maybe you really are reflecting the position of the USNA. I firmly believe that you do not. I don’t believe the USNA would send higher rated candidates to an inferior option for the lower rated candidates. It simply makes no sense and would be embarrassing for the navy if true.
Where is your expert perspective derived from?
Are you a former candidate?
Naval Officer?
BGO
Parent?

No disrespect intended, but the folks politely trying to answer your questions (as you refer to being "logic dancers") include some Naval Officers with first hand experience at USNA, and BGO's.
 
^ There lies the fallacy of the argument. NAPS/Foundation prep is not a "second place award." In fact, there are many candidates getting the TWE who are every bit as qualified or even more so than the NAPS/Foundation prep candidate, and who really doesn't even need further academic preparation. Admission to USNA is competitive, and someone has to get the TWE. If they want to be more competitive on round 2, then they should follow the guidance promulgated by USNA and attend a four year college , if they can.

NAPS/Foundation candidates have something that USNA wants, but are "missing something." Sometimes the thing that USNA wants is athletics, sometimes just a good story and demonstration of grit that USNA thinks will turn them into a good officer, sometimes they spent time in overseas schools, etc. The NAPS /Foundation programs provide that "something", but keep in mind...those candidates may still not be as "good" as the direct admits or those reapplying from a 4 year school. I went to NAPS, albeit a long time ago, and the NAPS administration at the time made no bones about the fact that despite getting through the program, we were still behind many of our better prepared Classmates., i.e. we weren't as academically prepared, but that we had enough to get through USNA.


so you are saying prep scholarships are awarded to candidates who scored lower than a TWE?

the candidates are rated, put on a NWL and USNA sends their prep awards to candidates that are not on the top of the bubble list but instead they choose candidates that have lower scores?
 
so you are saying prep scholarships are awarded to candidates who scored lower than a TWE?

the candidates are rated, put on a NWL and USNA sends their prep awards to candidates that are not on the top of the bubble list but instead they choose candidates that have lower scores?

Exactly .. NAPS/Prep is not the "runners up" or second place list. It is, as I said before, for Candidates where Admissions sees something the want, but just aren't ready for direct admissions. NAPS /Foundation gives Admissions a way to get them prepared for USNA.


Prep scholarships are given to applicants on the bubble/NWL and they go to those who were rated highest.
> Is your background with USMA or USAFA ? I am not familiar with the term "bubble" , and don't think USNA uses NWL. If your background is another Service, keep in mind that there are many differences between how the Service Academies do things.
 
Where is your expert perspective derived from?
Are you a former candidate?
Naval Officer?
BGO
Parent?

No disrespect intended, but the folks politely trying to answer your questions (as you refer to being "logic dancers") include some Naval Officers with first hand experience at USNA, and BGO's.

it is a simple question, and I can be a high school janitor and ask this question. I hope that is ok with you?


when I say superior/inferior, I’m referring to scores, not who they are as a person like one person has tried to insinuate.
the navy values STEM classes. Math is a core of STEM And analysis like this is at the core of any math program.

So if a navy officer who mastered math is reading this, then they understand the logical predicament a statement like “4yr > prep” creates when they send their own to prep. why wouldn’t the world’s leading military institution send their own to the best?

I’ve been told that yes, 4yr is rated higher but prep is not inferior
- that is logic dancing because those are mutually exclusive statements. .

and here is the thing. Do I have to reveal who I am to gain clout in your eyes? or can I simply be a janitor and apply common sense?

so feel free to grill me hard on how to clean up puke from the floor. I’m going to ask experts why a prep school is rated lower when they send their own To a prep school.
 
Exactly .. NAPS/Prep is not the "runners up" or second place list. It is, as I said before, for Candidates where Admissions sees something the want, but just aren't ready for direct admissions. NAPS /Foundation gives Admissions a way to get them prepared for USNA.



> Is your background with USMA or USAFA ? I am not familiar with the term "bubble" , and don't think USNA uses NWL. If your background is another Service, keep in mind that there are many differences between how the Service Academies do things.
We may have found the crux of my misunderstanding. You are correct, my background is rooted in the other branches and that might indeed be where the confusion lies.
so bear with me and I appreciate your responses. you say “navy sees something in them” but a TWE could be rated higher. Why wouldn’t they offer prep to the TWE rated higher? Clearly they saw something in the TWE because they were ranked higher. There Wasn’t enough room for direct appointment so I fully understand why they didn’t receive an appointment but that would be the first person I would offer prep to. Wouldn’t you? Why would the navy skip them?
 
They fully reviewed and rated the TWEs. They racked and stacked them and they didn't make the pick from a nomination slate.

But what if a candidate has all the leadership, high athletic chops, volunteer experience, etc. but their grades or test scores are "Meh?" Or they had good grades but didn't take as high level classes as others? Or a smaller, less competitive high school? Other candidates may have out ranked them, but the admissions staff and BGO thinks they have what it takes to make it with a bit more time to cook in the oven. Those are the high school they might select.

Nevermind the whole set of active duty enlisted that make it because they've been out of school for 1 - 3 years. They may just want to give those candidates a refresher to ensure they are not being set up for failure.

As for the quality of classes? I can guarantee I learned more about physics and calculus than I did in the ACC (now Big Ten) school where I eventually got my undergrad degree. In fact, by the end of my NAPS calc class, we were doing Calc III work. I tested into some sort of advanced experimental calc during Plebe summer based on that knowledge. And I didn't take even pre-calc in high school and had been out in the active duty world for two years before.
 
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The long pole in the tent here is USNA wants a broadly diverse class with those who have potential to excel and serve honorably as future Navy and Marine Corps officers. This is also a factor in prep offers. They do not want 100% cookie-cutter resume lookalikes populating a class. Their mission is to produce capable, prepared, new junior officers for a hard path of service not everyone chooses. Admissions has decades of experience in mining the annual crop of applicants. It’s not just “the usual” diversity, it can be home-schooling, unusual family backgrounds, tragic situations, remote ranch kids who have unusual schedules and challenges due to ranch work and access to “normal” HS activities, someone from a District with gosh awful schools which haven’t sent someone to a SA in years, first or second generation in the country, hardship, having to work near full-time to help support family so no cool internships/invitational sports camps/summer enrichment for them, you name it, there are midshipmen and cadets out there whose stories would make your eyes water, and despite those circumstances, they manage to shine a bright enough light that USNA truly sees them. Applicants get sent to prep for all kinds of reasons and with all kinds of applications. Some are likely a gnat’s eyelash from being fully qualified. Some may be un-shiny in academics, but USNA sees the drive, the willingness to overcome long odds, the commitment - whatever it is they see, they are willing to send them to either NAPS or a partner prep school.

I know some of those stories because we have sponsored several midshipmen with extraordinary back stories, whose GPA and test scores were nothing stellar, but when the whole person was looked at - the potential was there. All those mids were successful at USNA and subsequent careers.
 
Prep scholarships are given to applicants on the bubble/NWL and they go to those who were rated highest.
They are given to applicants the admissions team thinks have potential but aren’t quite academically ready. Or to prior enlisted service members who have no recent test scores or have been out of academia for a while.

My DS is at USNA. I’ve been on the forum for years. I have never in my recollection seen a report from USNA admissions released here telling us how they select prep candidates. They don’t release much regarding the admission process.

I don’t recall any admissions staff posting here.

How are you so sure there is a ‘bubble’ and that prep offers come off of the NWL?
Some prep offers are made early. Not at the end. Solely because USNA sees potential but recognizes a year of rigorous academic preparation is needed to round out that candidate.
 
Why wouldn’t they offer prep to the TWE rated higher? Clearly they saw something in the TWE because they were ranked higher. There Wasn’t enough room for direct appointment so I fully understand why they didn’t receive an appointment but that would be the first person I would offer prep to
You are asking me to walk into the realm of "why" .....which is way above my paygrade ! :). However, CAPT MJ has been inside the tent, and her explanation is consistent with my understanding. Keep in mind, the original purpose of NAPS was to help outstanding enlisted members get the academic background necessary to succeed at USNA. That has evolved over time, and prior enlisted are only a small portion of NAPS, but the thought process is the same.

But what if a candidate has all the leadership, high athletic chops, volunteer experience, etc. but their grades or test scores are "Meh?"
^ That was me, 40+ years ago; I had good tickets, but "meh" grades -- they didn't think I had the academic chops to make it through USNA, and they were right. As I've posted before -- I got my A$$ handed to me academically at NAPS, and would have failed out if I had gone direct to USNA. However, I learned how to study and learn, and did well. Yes , there were people who "ranked higher" that got TWE, and I am very thankful that Admissions saw something in me and gave me the chance.
 
^ That was me, 40+ years ago; I had good tickets, but "meh" grades -- they didn't think I had the academic chops to make it through USNA, and they were right. As I've posted before -- I got my A$$ handed to me academically at NAPS, and would have failed out if I had gone direct to USNA. However, I learned how to study and learn, and did well. Yes , there were people who "ranked higher" that got TWE, and I am very thankful that Admissions saw something in me and gave me the chance.
What is commonly not understood is that building a CLASS at USNA is not a matter of choosing the smartest 1200 or so people who applied or even the smartest in each nomination slate PLUS the smartest of those who are left. It also includes athletes, diverse populations and those who are deemed to be of very high potential as LEADERS for the Naval Service and the nation. Sometimes they need some additional academic growth.
Another thing that is behind the curtain so to speak is the candidates actual "Whole Person Multiple" which is not disclosed, even to BGOs. Someone may think that a particular candidate is better than another because how THEY view the stats but that is most assuredly not the same quantification as the Whole Person Multiple which is the actual figure used to compare candidates. Suffice it to say, it is a lot more than comparing SAT scores and GPAs.
 
What is commonly not understood is that building a CLASS at USNA is not a matter of choosing the smartest 1200 or so people who applied or even the smartest in each nomination slate PLUS the smartest of those who are left. It also includes athletes, diverse populations and those who are deemed to be of very high potential as LEADERS for the Naval Service and the nation. Sometimes they need some additional academic growth.
Another thing that is behind the curtain so to speak is the candidates actual "Whole Person Multiple" which is not disclosed, even to BGOs. Someone may think that a particular candidate is better than another because how THEY view the stats but that is most assuredly not the same quantification as the Whole Person Multiple which is the actual figure used to compare candidates. Suffice it to say, it is a lot more than comparing SAT scores and GPAs.
Yessss!
 
OldRetSWO said:
What is commonly not understood is that building a CLASS at USNA is not a matter of choosing the smartest 1200 or so people who applied or even the smartest in each nomination slate PLUS the smartest of those who are left. It also includes athletes, diverse populations and those who are deemed to be of very high potential as LEADERS for the Naval Service and the nation. Sometimes they need some additional academic growth.
Another thing that is behind the curtain so to speak is the candidates actual "Whole Person Multiple" which is not disclosed, even to BGOs. Someone may think that a particular candidate is better than another because how THEY view the stats but that is most assuredly not the same quantification as the Whole Person Multiple which is the actual figure used to compare candidates. Suffice it to say, it is a lot more than comparing SAT scores and GPAs.



This concept seems difficult for many to understand and, in some cases, accept.
 
DS's new application number has populated in his portal! He didn't have to change the password or anything. No email, but it's all there...let's hope this is a luckier number than the last one and that the waiver Gods are feeling kindly...
 
Son was the same this cycle. Everything populated from his 25 app into the 26 one. And they get their candidate number early.
 
Son was the same this cycle. Everything populated from his 25 app into the 26 one. And they get their candidate number early.
It's been nice because the application (essays and recommendations aside) are almost already done since he was able to start working on it as soon as the preliminary period opened up. It feels a lot less overwhelming this time.
 
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