Reapplying to USNA (after a turndown)

ALW72 said:
Thanks for the reassurance! This is just making me nervous because he has truly worked so hard. The school he is attending is nationally ranked for its engineering programs and is known for being one of the most rigorous, especially for his specific areas of study (nuclear and mechanical engineering). Added to the mix is that the school has actually had 4 on campus suicides this semester alone and the university feels like it's in a dark place. I think he is doing pretty well over all (and I am able to see him often), but the whole situation is fairly anxiety inducing!
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Looking at USNA over the past 3+ years via my DS and comparing to engineering programs I've either taught at, hired from, or advised as part of the ABET accreditation process (or have friends on faculty), I think your son is proving that academically he'll be successful at USNA. Everybody takes about the same classes the first two years of any engineering program (USNA included).
 
ders_dad said:
Looking at USNA over the past 3+ years via my DS and comparing to engineering programs I've either taught at, hired from, or advised as part of the ABET accreditation process (or have friends on faculty), I think your son is proving that academically he'll be successful at USNA. Everybody takes about the same classes the first two years of any engineering program (USNA included).
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Thanks so much, very helpful to know...especially coming from a non-engineering background myself! I am an elementary school teacher by trade and my husband is an accountant, so all this chemistry and physics stuff is definitely out of our wheelhouse. It's good to get an insider's perspective on what is normative within the field.
 
ALW72 said:
Me again...I feel like the only person keeping this thread going! So DS is finishing up his first semester and will be able to submit his first semester transcript in the next couple of weeks once grades are finalized. He is just starting finals now. He has worked very hard at the competitive top ranked engineering program where he was admitted and tested into the most rigorous STEM classes required for his major straight out of high school because his AP scores were so high. This is my concern...how high do reapplicant GPA's have to be (especially if you are taking that tough STEM course load)? He's looking at A's and B's, which seems reasonable to me under the circumstances, but is worried about possibly getting a C in Chemistry. He already knows he has an 85 final in the separate lab though and thinks his overall GPA for the semester will probably be a 3.1 or 3.2.

There is just no published information about what types of grades successful reapplicants have during their first semester (which I get could be highly subjective). It just seems unreasonable to ding a kid too hard for a class they are going to have to take again at USNA if they are able to get in, and said class is known for being the initial GPA killer at both schools (USNA and the one he is currently attending). For reference, he had a 4.5 in high school (which wasn't higher only because he took orchestra all four years which wasn't offered as an AP course).

Thoughts?
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Good News! Final grades just posted and chemistry ended up being a C+ (rather than a a regular C) and he ended up with a surprise A- in calculus...netting out to a 3.3 for his first semester in a notoriously tough engineering department. This seems to be a strong performance amongst his peers in the program. Anyhow, he's pretty tired after coming back home and is down 25 pounds (he wasn't big before but apparently the cafeteria food isn't great and he's been running a lot). Now just waiting for nominations to be announced next week...
 
One thing (as with all service academies) is that if you choose to reapply, you will have your career delayed by the number of years after you were rejected.
 
I was already 21 when I finished NAPS and entered Plebe summer. That would have made me 25 if I had stayed and graduated from the Academy.

I still would have been able to retire at 55 with 30 years in, and still would have years to work if I felt like it.

So yeah, even a three or four year slip is not going to affect things that much .......
 
ALW72 said:
We are aware. It didn't seem to hurt President Carter or General Patton too much in the long run though.
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From another perspective (former USNA Battalion Officer and experienced first CO/XO/Dept Hd of many a green ensign), a midshipman or cadet successful re-applicant (or even re-re or re-re-re), is usually that much more mature, has already managed living away from home at college for a year or two, and gained some life, adulting and roommate interpersonal skills. They have also learned to manage disappointment, clearly assess their weaknesses, develop a strategic re-attack plan, execute relentlessly, nurture team member and leadership skills in a ROTC unit, prep school or other college activity. Their humble muscles are far more developed than their hubris muscles, because they know the value of failing to attain a goal and resolving to try again, and deeply appreciate the confidence the SA has shown in their continued development by offering them a seat in the class. That self-awareness will enrich their leadership perspective when their people are struggling with some qualification.

I didn’t care if the new ensign was 21, 22, 23 or 24, I cared about their performance, performance, performance, if they were fair and consistent with their people, leaned forward to learn and were good shipmates. As I am fond of and known for saying, graduating a year or two later with a few more years in the pipeline does not mean you are teetering at grave’s edge. They are not behind. They are with their peers in their commissioning year group, and frankly, no one cares how long it took someone.

If a SA believed there was something awful about spending longer in pre-Comm mode and entering their O-1 career a year or two later than age peers, then they would not admit prior enlisted or re-applicants or those who left to go on mission and re-apply to join a class that used to be 1-2 years behind them. The SA knows these more seasoned midshipmen and cadets add maturity and depth and informal peer leadership to each and every new class.

My Navy OCS roommate was 29, prior enlisted Storekeeper. I was fresh out of college. We were the Dream Team. I helped her with STEM-based academics and proofread her papers (she had a degree from what used to be called “night college” using Navy Tuition Assistance). She was whip smart about all things Navy, uniforms, grooming standards, getting the room inspection ready, how things were done, and generally learning how to maintain an even keel when people were yelling at you. She had lived “real life,” and she was extraordinarily helpful to me as a role model. She went on to become a Captain in the Supply Corps, with a very successful career, including a corporate career with Home Depot after. I don’t think she spent one minute thinking about the years it took her up start her officer career. Nor did anyone else.
 
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Capt MJ said:
From another perspective (former USNA Battalion Officer and experienced first CO/XO/Dept Hd of many a green ensign), a midshipman or cadet successful re-applicant (or even re-re or re-re-re), is usually that much more mature, has already managed living away from home at college for a year or two, and gained some life, adulting and roommate interpersonal skills. They have also learned to manage disappointment, clearly assess their weaknesses, develop a strategic re-attack plan, execute relentlessly, nurture team member and leadership skills in a ROTC unit, prep school or other college activity. Their humble muscles are far more developed than their hubris muscles, because they know the value of failing to attain a goal and resolving to try again, and deeply appreciate the confidence the SA has shown in their continued development by offering them a seat in the class. That self-awareness will enrich their leadership perspective when their people are struggling with some qualification.

I didn’t care if the new ensign was 21, 22, 23 or 24, I cared about their performance, performance, performance, if they were fair and consistent with their people, leaned forward to learn and were good shipmates. As I am fond of and known for saying, graduating a year or two later with a few more years in the pipeline does not mean you are teetering at grave’s edge. They are not behind. They are with their peers in their commissioning year group, and frankly, no one cares how long it took someone.

If a SA believed there was something awful about spending longer in pre-Comm mode and entering their O-1 career a year or two later than age peers, then they would not admit prior enlisted or re-applicants or those who left to go on mission and re-apply to join a class that used to be 1-2 years behind them. The SA knows these more seasoned midshipmen and cadets add maturity and depth and informal peer leadership to each and every new class.

My Navy OCS roommate was 29, prior enlisted Storekeeper. I was fresh out of college. We were the Dream Team. I helped her with STEM-based academics and proofread her papers (she had a degree from what used to be called “night college” using Navy Tuition Assistance). She was whip smart about all things Navy, uniforms, grooming standards, getting the room inspection ready, how things were done, and generally learning how to maintain an even keel when people were yelling at you. She had lived “real life,” and she was extraordinarily helpful to me as a role model. She went on to become a Captain in the Supply Corps, with a very successful career, including a corporate career with Home Depot after. I don’t think she spent one minute thinking about the years it it her up start her officer career. Nor did anyone else.
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Thanks so much for this insight. Not coming from a military background we have had to research examples to help support and encourage DS along on his journey to achieve his goals, but real life examples like this are so valuable. Regardless of the outcome of his second attempt we feel it will go a long way towards developing resilience and "stick-with-it-ness".
 
IronmanDaremo said:
I was already 21 when I finished NAPS and entered Plebe summer. That would have made me 25 if I had stayed and graduated from the Academy.

I still would have been able to retire at 55 with 30 years in, and still would have years to work if I felt like it.

So yeah, even a three or four year slip is not going to affect things that much .......
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Thanks for sharing this, like I said to Captain MJ real life examples like this are valuable since we don't come from a military background.
 
Oh, and my son was a college re-applicant.

Just got him home on Saturday from finishing his first Plebe semester. He thought classes were pretty easy (except Cyber), and credits a lot of that to having already been through a year of college. Should finish the semester with between a 3.0 - 3.3 GPA, even with all of the other non-scholastic shenanigans he has had to deal with. A year slip could actually be beneficial to some.
 
IronmanDaremo said:
Oh, and my son was a college re-applicant.

Just got him home on Saturday from finishing his first Plebe semester. He thought classes were pretty easy (except Cyber), and credits a lot of that to having already been through a year of college. Should finish the semester with between a 3.0 - 3.3 GPA, even with all of the other non-scholastic shenanigans he has had to deal with. A year slip could actually be beneficial to some.
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I am very grateful for the additional year that DD has in Foundation and she says she is too . Allowed her to live on her own , time management skills , maturity and an additional year of academic prep after almost two years of zoom classes . I keep reading about how difficult Chemistry is , DD and the other Naval Foundation students she is with all seemed to do well in Chemistry this semester , it’s Physics that is kicking all of their butts.
 
Since this thread has been so helpful, I thought I'd add some information from the experience of my DS.

Last year he applied and got the TWE. The rejection was fairly early which probably meant they did not like a couple of his sub-par AP course grades. Overall stats were 3.5 GPA with a rigorous course schedule and load. 32 ACT/1450ish SAT. Lots of leadership including Boys State, volunteer firefighter, competitive hacking team, robotics. State qualifying runner, good but submaximal CFA.

One of the best bits of advice on this thread suggested that if you think a candidate's resume looks good as a graduating senior, think about how good it will look with another year of hard work.

He was fortunate to be awarded a 4 year NROTC scholarship and thanks in part to the advice on this board, worked diligently both in his classwork and within his unit. He took the suggested plebe-like schedule, managed a 3.4 GPA, and earned the position of squad leader in his NROTC unit. He's been nearly maxing his PT, and succeeded at NSI. After so many interviews covering similar topics, I have no doubt that he could recite both sides of the interview without notes.

Now comes the wait. He's got 3 nominations in hand (ROTC, Senator, Rep). I'll update you with the results in 1-5 months.
 
docrottdc said:
Since this thread has been so helpful, I thought I'd add some information from the experience of my DS.

Last year he applied and got the TWE. The rejection was fairly early which probably meant they did not like a couple of his sub-par AP course grades. Overall stats were 3.5 GPA with a rigorous course schedule and load. 32 ACT/1450ish SAT. Lots of leadership including Boys State, volunteer firefighter, competitive hacking team, robotics. State qualifying runner, good but submaximal CFA.

One of the best bits of advice on this thread suggested that if you think a candidate's resume looks good as a graduating senior, think about how good it will look with another year of hard work.

He was fortunate to be awarded a 4 year NROTC scholarship and thanks in part to the advice on this board, worked diligently both in his classwork and within his unit. He took the suggested plebe-like schedule, managed a 3.4 GPA, and earned the position of squad leader in his NROTC unit. He's been nearly maxing his PT, and succeeded at NSI. After so many interviews covering similar topics, I have no doubt that he could recite both sides of the interview without notes.

Now comes the wait. He's got 3 nominations in hand (ROTC, Senator, Rep). I'll update you with the results in 1-5 months.
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Wishing him the best of luck . He sounds like an amazing young man who will have a successful Naval career. Hoping he hears good news in the next few months!
 
Second time applying after getting waitlisted until early June for c/o 26'. I'm one of those that need a CB waiver so pretty anxious..
 
Several have received a TWE today, including my DS. Now time to pivot toward a different route to the same destination. I imagine that since he got as far as 4/12 in the application cycle, he was competitive to a degree. However, we are both aware of the weaknesses in his application, namely a lack of sports (only XC his freshman year).

So, I'm wondering how important his high school record is as a college re-applicant? Does USNA consider the high school transcripts, ECAs, sports, leadership, etc. when they reapply after a semester of college? Or do they focus mainly on what's he's done in that first semester?

Of course, he should get involved in a sport his first semester to improve his competitiveness. But will he still be behind the curve, when compared to other re-applicants who were high school varsity athletes?
 
wnsham96 said:
Several have received a TWE today, including my DS. Now time to pivot toward a different route to the same destination. I imagine that since he got as far as 4/12 in the application cycle, he was competitive to a degree. However, we are both aware of the weaknesses in his application, namely a lack of sports (only XC his freshman year).

So, I'm wondering how important his high school record is as a college re-applicant? Does USNA consider the high school transcripts, ECAs, sports, leadership, etc. when they reapply after a semester of college? Or do they focus mainly on what's he's done in that first semester?

Of course, he should get involved in a sport his first semester to improve his competitiveness. But will he still be behind the curve, when compared to other re-applicants who were high school varsity athletes?
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Sorry to hear about the TWE. My DS got the same notice about the same time last year.

As far as the re-application process goes. In my experience both are important. Your DS will need to provide all the info from high school again along with new recommendation letters from HS and a new personal statement. He will also need recommendation letters from college professors. My DS focused on taking difficult classes his first semester (calc and physics) and getting A’s. He also focused on CFA performance and got better in all aspects of that. He was also part of a school team.

I don’t know if he will be behind the curve compared to applicants with HS sports, but I recommend he controls what he can control.

Hope that helps and best of luck.
 
To be honest ...making it to 4/12 is not really an indicator of competitiveness. The first round of TWE in February is mostly incomplete applications. Admissions evaluates each MOC slate and slowly builds the class between February and March, It was pretty clear from posts on SAF , as well as observing my own Candidates, that many TWE and/or waitlists were issued yesterday.

As to the question about how important High School is to a Reapplicant, I can only say both are important. It is very difficult to establish a strong record academically, and as a leader and athlete in the first 6 months of college alone, so Admissions will look at the whole record. That said, a strong start in college can overcome weaknesses in the HS record, particularly in the case of some with a weaker SAT/ACT score or academic background. There is nothing like actual performance to overcome reservations about academics.
 
Over the past year, I’ve read numerous posts about the Naval Academy “building the class.” Unfortunately, I do not believe USNA published the Class Profile for last year’s class so we are all in the dark about what that class looked like. This mysterious and illusive plan to create the perfect class leaves me wondering whether it makes sense for my DD to reapply. As all the applicants who have been posting, she had exceptional grades, scores, leadership, athleticism, etc. - she was not a recruited athlete, however. I have two questions: (1) Given that women comprise roughly 27% of the past few classes, how many appointments are typically made to women who are NOT recruited athletes?
(2) Additionally, what are the historical numbers for appointments of those who reapply? For example, are there usually 100 appointments made from the pool of reapplications - or 50? Obviously those who attend NAPS or Foundation Prep should be excluded as they have a different path.

Having this information would allow my DD to make an informed analysis of her chances, should she decide to reapply. It was a long and arduous process to go through. If she decides to try again, I would like her to know what she is facing.
 
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