Reasons why so many candidates do not commission in ROTC?

Tbpxece

Member
I've noticed over the past few years that military service is not viewed as a goal by the iGen crowd. Coupled with delayed entry to adulthood and decreased real-world social interactions, the prospect of professional success being dependent on one's ability to network and take responsibility is not very attractive.
 

Impulsive

Member
Does anyone know if you can be denied into a nrotc unit by applying through the college program application
Generally our experience (and I am sure members here with a ton more experience with NROTC can probably give you more info) has been that it is a good idea to have the same qualifications as a "Scholarship Candidate" or be considered "Highly Qualified" for a SA. Programmers go through the same procedures (less NSI) as a Scholarship candidate, and will do their "indoc" the first three weeks into the school year (5 days a week of PT and Formation along with basic military bearing, a drug/alcohol test, and uniform issue). This sometimes weeds out the ones who are not committed. IMHO, the only way you won't get accepted is if you are extremely out of shape, really flop on your CO interview, or are a liberal arts major (most of the students in NROTC as at the Academy are STEM Majors) and the liberal arts slots are filled. Make sure all info is filled out, do a good interview, and give it your 100% and you will be fine! As a "Programmer" you don't have to commit to anything until the start of your Junior year, then you either need to accept a 2yr Scholarship or attain "Advanced Standing", you can Commission either way.
 
Does anyone know if you can be denied into a nrotc unit by applying through the college program application
Generally our experience (and I am sure members here with a ton more experience with NROTC can probably give you more info) has been that it is a good idea to have the same qualifications as a "Scholarship Candidate" or be considered "Highly Qualified" for a SA. Programmers go through the same procedures (less NSI) as a Scholarship candidate, and will do their "indoc" the first three weeks into the school year (5 days a week of PT and Formation along with basic military bearing, a drug/alcohol test, and uniform issue). This sometimes weeds out the ones who are not committed. IMHO, the only way you won't get accepted is if you are extremely out of shape, really flop on your CO interview, or are a liberal arts major (most of the students in NROTC as at the Academy are STEM Majors) and the liberal arts slots are filled. Make sure all info is filled out, do a good interview, and give it your 100% and you will be fine! As a "Programmer" you don't have to commit to anything until the start of your Junior year, then you either need to accept a 2yr Scholarship or attain "Advanced Standing", you can Commission either way.
Impulsive: NSI is fairly new, but I thought I read that there were some college programmers at NSI this summer.
Also, Indoc is not a three-week program at every institution. I believe the duration can vary. (At my son's institution it was three days.)
While it's true that only 15% of scholarships are reserved for Tier 3 (non-STEM) majors, the other way of looking at it is that 15% of scholarships are reserved for Tier 3 majors, so if the Navy is looking to fill some of those slots, a Tier 3 major wins a scholarship. I don't think that being Tier 3 necessarily"reduces your chances," unless a disproportionate number of applicants are Tier 3.
Programmers often win a scholarship during their freshman year, in which case they are committing at the start of their sophomore year.
 

NJROTC-CC

Member
Does anyone know if you can be denied into a nrotc unit by applying through the college program application
My DS, still only a sophomore in HS, shows little interest in being a STEM major. He is willing to takes his chances for a scholarship as a Tier 3. He is very active in NJROTC and is IMHO a natural leader and loves PT and the whole military aspect of NJROTC. If he doesn't get into USNA or win a 4 yr. scholarship, he will apply to be a college programmer and then his success will be up to him.

But, to answer the quoted question. I believe that you have to apply to the individual NROTC unit to become a college programmer. It is not just a matter of registering for Naval Science 1. So, I believe that you can be denied entry into a NROTC unit as a college programmer. The standards may not be as high as to win a 4 year scholarship, but there still are minimum standards (I am guessing, minimum height and weight, etc.) Once you are a college programmer, you have an excellent chance of a 2 or 3 year scholarship and/or advanced standing if you work your butt off and become an outstanding MID.
 

AROTC-dad

Moderator
5-Year Member
I believe that you have to apply to the individual NROTC unit to become a college programmer. It is not just a matter of registering for Naval Science 1. So, I believe that you can be denied entry into a NROTC unit as a college programmer. The standards may not be as high as to win a 4 year scholarship, but there still are minimum standards (I am guessing, minimum height and weight, etc.) Once you are a college programmer, you have an excellent chance of a 2 or 3 year scholarship and/or advanced standing if you work your butt off and become an outstanding MID.
This is correct based on several NROTC unit websites.

University of Oklahoma NROTC:
The College Program is for incoming freshman or sophomore students who desire a commission in the United States Navy or Marine Corps who have not been selected for the NROTC National Scholarship. If accepted to the NROTC College Program, you will be required to participate in all NROTC events and activities to be eligible for NROTC benefits. During your time in the unit you will be evaluated for academic, physical, and leadership aptitude. At the end of your freshman and sophomore years you can apply for a scholarship.
NOTE: All NROTC College Program students are eligible for IN-STATE tuition.
Source: http://www.ou.edu/rotc/nrotc/college-program

Iowa State University NROTC:
If I meet all the basic requirements am I guaranteed acceptance into the College Program?
No. Acceptance into the College Program is a competitive process. The NROTC staff at Iowa State carefully reviews each application in order to evaluate whether the candidate is likely to complete the program and be selected for a 4, 3, or 2-year scholarship, or Advanced Standing. Competition for the College Program is keen.
Source: https://www.navy.iastate.edu/about/college-program/
 

NJROTC-CC

Member
In addition to the application, here are the requirements of the college program at a local university near me. Note #6.

1. Acceptance is based upon ability to participate in strenuous physical activity and the absence of contagious disease, illness, or history of injury that will or is likely to require medical care or restriction of participation during training exercises or physical readiness testing.

2. Special attention should be given to orthopedic and cardiovascular conditions or complaints.

3. If you have a medical condition that you think may be disqualifying, please research the link below. A current list of disqualifying conditions can be found at: http://www.nrotc.navy.mil/physical_requirements.html

4. There is no provision for “waiver” of the acceptance criteria for participating in the NROTC College Program. Examining physicians may submit appropriate statements for consideration of acceptance when the examiner is of the opinion that the applicant will not encounter any restriction of participation in the program and that the condition in question does not present an unacceptable risk for aggravation or worsening as the result of participation in the activities of the program. Conditions that will require medication or treatment during the period of training should be considered as not meeting the criteria for qualification.

5. Acceptance is conditional and contingent upon your meeting and maintaining the height, weight and physical fitness standards of your assigned service.

6. Final authority for acceptance of applicants is the Commanding Officer, NROTC Unit, University of __________.
 
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justdoit19

Member
My DS, still only a sophomore in HS, shows little interest in being a STEM major. He is willing to takes his chances for a scholarship as a Tier 3. He is very active in NJROTC and is IMHO a natural leader and loves PT and the whole military aspect of NJROTC. If he doesn't get into USNA or win a 4 yr. scholarship, he will apply to be a college programmer and then his success will be up to him.

But, to answer the quoted question. I believe that you have to apply to the individual NROTC unit to become a college programmer. It is not just a matter of registering for Naval Science 1. So, I believe that you can be denied entry into a NROTC unit as a college programmer. The standards may not be as high as to win a 4 year scholarship, but there still are minimum standards (I am guessing, minimum height and weight, etc.) Once you are a college programmer, you have an excellent chance of a 2 or 3 year scholarship and/or advanced standing if you work your butt off and become an outstanding MID.
This is also how DS and myself, who visited our local NROTC unit during a college admissions visit, understood it. IOW...join if forgot to apply NROTC scholarship while applying to USNA. Join if you applied, but didn’t receive a NROTC scholarship. Chances are good that you can receive one as a programmer if you have the right stuff.
 

5centsmom

Member
At my son’s unit at the end of their first year in the program, the 4 or 5 College programmers still with the program all received scholarships. This is approximately half the group of programmers that began in the fall. The other half had faded out over the course of the first semester (if memory serves). So very do-able. None of the initial group of 4y scholarship winners dropped. However there’s still ~3 years to go. Fingers crossed for these MDNs since they’re all working very hard.
 
Does anyone know if you can be denied into a nrotc unit by applying through the college program application
Generally our experience (and I am sure members here with a ton more experience with NROTC can probably give you more info) has been that it is a good idea to have the same qualifications as a "Scholarship Candidate" or be considered "Highly Qualified" for a SA. Programmers go through the same procedures (less NSI) as a Scholarship candidate, and will do their "indoc" the first three weeks into the school year (5 days a week of PT and Formation along with basic military bearing, a drug/alcohol test, and uniform issue). This sometimes weeds out the ones who are not committed. IMHO, the only way you won't get accepted is if you are extremely out of shape, really flop on your CO interview, or are a liberal arts major (most of the students in NROTC as at the Academy are STEM Majors) and the liberal arts slots are filled. Make sure all info is filled out, do a good interview, and give it your 100% and you will be fine! As a "Programmer" you don't have to commit to anything until the start of your Junior year, then you either need to accept a 2yr Scholarship or attain "Advanced Standing", you can Commission either way.
Many College Programers went to NSI (1o% of SD Consortium's NSI 2 group.) in 2019. Note the Marine Corps is still open to all majors, and after consuming Fick's memoir and Mattis's most recent I understand why!
 

justinpham3139

New Member
Generally our experience (and I am sure members here with a ton more experience with NROTC can probably give you more info) has been that it is a good idea to have the same qualifications as a "Scholarship Candidate" or be considered "Highly Qualified" for a SA. Programmers go through the same procedures (less NSI) as a Scholarship candidate, and will do their "indoc" the first three weeks into the school year (5 days a week of PT and Formation along with basic military bearing, a drug/alcohol test, and uniform issue). This sometimes weeds out the ones who are not committed. IMHO, the only way you won't get accepted is if you are extremely out of shape, really flop on your CO interview, or are a liberal arts major (most of the students in NROTC as at the Academy are STEM Majors) and the liberal arts slots are filled. Make sure all info is filled out, do a good interview, and give it your 100% and you will be fine! As a "Programmer" you don't have to commit to anything until the start of your Junior year, then you either need to accept a 2yr Scholarship or attain "Advanced Standing", you can Commission either way.
okay thank you
 

justinpham3139

New Member
Many College Programers went to NSI (1o% of SD Consortium's NSI 2 group.) in 2019. Note the Marine Corps is still open to all majors, and after consuming Fick's memoir and Mattis's most recent I understand why!
I was wondering about the san Diego unit because I am interested in applying to Cal State San Marcos as a Global Studies Major and trying to see if I am able to join the NROTC college program application.
 

AROTC-dad

Moderator
5-Year Member

Impulsive

Member
Many College Programers went to NSI (1o% of SD Consortium's NSI 2 group.) in 2019. Note the Marine Corps is still open to all majors, and after consuming Fick's memoir and Mattis's most recent I understand why!
I should have been more specific.....you are correct, Programmers "can" go to NSI if offered by their unit. But there is NO Requirement to go to NSI as a Programmer as there is with scholarship winners. It is up to the student and the unit to decide and make the arrangements. Also, for Programmers, the Yr 2 Summer program is NOT guaranteed, Scholarship MIDNS get the first shots and if the option(s) a Programmer wants are full, there is no requirement they must attend. The only requirement is, attendance in the summer program heading into your senior year, and either a 2yr Scholarship or Advanced Standing to continue. This is what we were told and our son understands, it may be different at different schools/units.

Also what you said re: distance between schools needs to be considered. Our DS currently has to drive almost 30 minutes each way every time he has duty, or attendance at PT or Class. So the need for a car may be a consideration, as is transit time between class and NROTC requirements. Make sure the unit understands and will work with you as to schedule. Talk to the Unit!!
 

kinnem

Moderator
5-Year Member
I should have been more specific.....you are correct, Programmers "can" go to NSI if offered by their unit. But there is NO Requirement to go to NSI as a Programmer as there is with scholarship winners. It is up to the student and the unit to decide and make the arrangements. Also, for Programmers, the Yr 2 Summer program is NOT guaranteed, Scholarship MIDNS get the first shots and if the option(s) a Programmer wants are full, there is no requirement they must attend. The only requirement is, attendance in the summer program heading into your senior year, and either a 2yr Scholarship or Advanced Standing to continue.
This is correct for all schools. The one part I would potentially take exception with is summer training. I believe one has to be under contract (i.e on scholarship) to attend summer training between Sophomore and Junior years. Of course, as my wife will tell you, I have been known to be wrong from time to time.
 

ProudDad17

Member
This is correct for all schools. The one part I would potentially take exception with is summer training. I believe one has to be under contract (i.e on scholarship) to attend summer training between Sophomore and Junior years. Of course, as my wife will tell you, I have been known to be wrong from time to time.
You are correct. Only mids on scholarship or advanced standing attend summer cruises. The 1/c cruise between junior and senior year is currently the only mandatory cruise to attend. There was talk of making Seat Trials mandatory, but we saw what happened there this past summer. I will be curious to see what happens with this program.
 
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