Relationship between officers and enlisted

Thanks for the great replies to my question, everyone!

Some of you said that aside from the relationship between enlisted and officers being different between branches, it's also different depending on the jobs you do in said branch. Anyone care to dig deeper on that subject? Are some jobs more "relaxed" than others as far as the relationships between officers and enlisted go?
 
Thanks for the great replies to my question, everyone!

Some of you said that aside from the relationship between enlisted and officers being different between branches, it's also different depending on the jobs you do in said branch. Anyone care to dig deeper on that subject? Are some jobs more "relaxed" than others as far as the relationships between officers and enlisted go?

I will say medical units or hospitals in general are pretty relaxed when it comes to rank within the officer corps alone and in interactions with enlisted soldiers. In the medical world most jobs are considered professions with licenses and certifications on the outside and due to the nature work a lot of the formalities you would see in a regular line infantry company just don't translate over. Especially since many of the officers are direct commissioned (meaning no formal pre-officer training) a good amount, but not all, tend to be sloppy when it comes to military bearing. Doctors and nurses can be notorious for this.
 
Especially since many of the officers are direct commissioned (meaning no formal pre-officer training) a good amount, but not all, tend to be sloppy when it comes to military bearing. Doctors and nurses can be notorious for this.

Never had a problem with them being sloppy officers. I'd rather the military bearing be sloppy than the doctor or nurse work!!! :wink:
 
Thanks for the great replies to my question, everyone!

Some of you said that aside from the relationship between enlisted and officers being different between branches, it's also different depending on the jobs you do in said branch. Anyone care to dig deeper on that subject? Are some jobs more "relaxed" than others as far as the relationships between officers and enlisted go?

I'll comment on this. And I'll give a disclaimer that I'll probably piss off some people too. So let's just get that out of the way. Fortunately, this is an academy (Commissioned Officer) forum, so I won't piss off as many as I could in an open forum.

Today; education is a lot more available to enlisted personnel. Such as American Military University and just about any other online university. In my time however, the air force was the only branch that actually had their own accredited college whereby enlisted members got accredited and transferable college credits for their technical school. (CCAF - Community College of the Air Force). Now; the question was "are some JOBS" more relaxed on the officer/enlisted relationship. Well, in the air force, the highly technical enlisted jobs like electronic technicians, telecom techs, etc... had schools that could be close to a year long out of basic training. Add on additional training for more specialized equipment, and it's not uncommon to be in school for 2 years during your first 4-6 year enlistment. Most of these type jobs practically GAVE you an associate's degree with all the technical training you received. Most of these enlisted basically took a semester or two of GER type classes; e.g. english, history, math, etc... and they had their AAS degree.

Add onto this, that a whole lot more of enlisted personnel have college degrees than most people think. Most people would think that officers are college graduates and enlisted are just high school graduates. That's simply not true. And it's even LESS TRUE today with more online and other college availability. But even in my time; 1978-1999, there were a LOT of enlisted with associates, bachelors, and even senior nco's with grad school degrees.

I bring this up, because many of the technical enlisted personnel, had degrees in Electronics, Computers, Engineering, etc... Nothing against the history, art, or english degrees; but many of the officers ALSO had classes and some experience with the higher math, science, and engineering classes. E.g. ALL Academy grads, even those with a history degree; take engineering classes. So; the point is, many of the more technical enlisted careers, tend to have a lot more in common with the officer corp. They both have college backgrounds; both tended to take a lot of the same type classes; both are more educated all around. As such, it seemed that that had closer "Relationships" too. Fortunately, both being as well educated and experienced, they were most times also able to keep the relationship from being a problem.

So I'm not dogging the enlisted security forces individual; the civil engineer; the admin technician; crew chief; etc... But I am saying that I saw first hand, and noticed over an entire career, that the relationship (Even work relationship) between say a Communications Squadron Electronics tech and their Comm officers was at a more familiar level than many other jobs. This also seems to have extended across duty assignments. I spent a lot of time in Tac-Comm which included working with a lot of pilots, intel, specops, etc... And there seemed to be a different relationship. A friend in the navy was an ET (Electronics Technician) and he said he noticed a similarity in the navy. Basically; the more education you had, the more in common you had with others who had an education. Thus, officers. Therefor, the relationships seemed to be different.

But still; those relationships usually never existed within your own chain of command or squadron. Yes, I would call my planning officer (0-2, Lieutenant), L.T. (Yes, the letters L.T); and he'd usually call me Mike. And in a more formal setting, it would be Sgt and Sir. But then, as I said, because we worked together, we wouldn't spend time off duty together. Except for possibly if we were BOTH on the squadron Softball team or bowling team, and we'd have beer together at the game. But most CLOSE friends, who were officers, e.g. pilots, social actions officer, etc... were usually neighbors and such where our social life never mixed with work, because our paths rarely ever passed each others. But again; each branch... each base...... State Side vs Overseas.... etc... all create different and unique situations and scenarios.
 
I can only speak to my experience... I was a Marine. We probably are by far the most formal when it comes to the line between officer and enlisted. We always addressed each other by rank. We do not call Lts "L.T." they are sir, ma'am or Lieutenant. Staff Sergeants are Staff Sergeant, not Sergeant. First names pretty much do not exist in the Marine Corps. We would never address each other that way, even peers. I think for the most part from what I can remember peers call each other by their last name and when in front of the Marines we would call each other by our ranks and last name. Sometimes some of the more senior officers would call the junior officers by first names when in officer only environments, counseling, or socializing.

As far as socializing, mostly we stuck to our peer groups. There would be BBQs, etc alot of times where SNCOs and Officers (or senior officers and junior officers) would socialize together, but there always tended to be a bit more reservation to it for all parties. If it was hosted at an Officer's house then the SNCOs tended to disappear early and vice versa.

Its not right or wrong, it is different. It is part of what makes the Marine Corps, the Marine Corps.
 
I just remembered one story... We were deployed overseas and were able to take some Marines for R&R for a weekend. Myself and a SSgt were sent to ensure no one got arrested while on libo. We were in a location where we were trying to keep a low profile, so no military gear or ranks were allowed. I actually had to sit down and memorize all the junior Marines first names. The Marines were so uncomfortable calling myself the SSgt by our first names I thought they might implode. Finally when we checked into the hotel and visited a few places we magically became a school trip and myself and the SSgt were the professors and they called us Mr. and Ms. They were much more comfortable with that.
 
Where it gets very interesting is when the services interact with each other or overlap.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it's a disaster. :eek:
 
Where it gets very interesting is when the services interact with each other or overlap.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it's a disaster. :eek:

So then it's just like when my southern wife and my Yankee family get together??!!!?? :eek:
 
I just remembered one story... We were deployed overseas and were able to take some Marines for R&R for a weekend. Myself and a SSgt were sent to ensure no one got arrested while on libo. We were in a location where we were trying to keep a low profile, so no military gear or ranks were allowed. I actually had to sit down and memorize all the junior Marines first names. The Marines were so uncomfortable calling myself the SSgt by our first names I thought they might implode. Finally when we checked into the hotel and visited a few places we magically became a school trip and myself and the SSgt were the professors and they called us Mr. and Ms. They were much more comfortable with that.

Haha, great story.
 
I just remembered one story... We were deployed overseas and were able to take some Marines for R&R for a weekend. Myself and a SSgt were sent to ensure no one got arrested while on libo. We were in a location where we were trying to keep a low profile, so no military gear or ranks were allowed. I actually had to sit down and memorize all the junior Marines first names. The Marines were so uncomfortable calling myself the SSgt by our first names I thought they might implode. Finally when we checked into the hotel and visited a few places we magically became a school trip and myself and the SSgt were the professors and they called us Mr. and Ms. They were much more comfortable with that.

What Marines fail to realize is.... people can spot Marines a mile away, with or without uniforms. The high and tight. The rigidness of their pooly dressed civilian selves.

They've have to grow out their hair, add a few points, slouch and get some style.... something tells me just not using ranks didn't do it! :biggrin:
 
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I can only speak to my experience... I was a Marine. We probably are by far the most formal when it comes to the line between officer and enlisted. We always addressed each other by rank. We do not call Lts "L.T." they are sir, ma'am or Lieutenant. Staff Sergeants are Staff Sergeant, not Sergeant. First names pretty much do not exist in the Marine Corps.

Its not right or wrong, it is different. It is part of what makes the Marine Corps, the Marine Corps.

+1 NavyHoops.

I had a guard unit on a Navy base at one point. Very small unit with an "all ranks" club. I don't remember a single situation where the line was crossed - even when closing down the club. The officers tended to stay together and leave early (to let the Marines have some space). There would be mixing on the pool tables, etc but the protocols of familiarity were always followed.

Even more interesting - perhaps - was that the Marines had intermural teams that competed on base. Although there were Navy Officer teams, I played on the Marine teams. I never "assumed" the role of team captain - deferring to an enlisted man each time. Despite this closeness, despite the heat of the competition, I don't recall a single time that the formality was breached with me or competition. We all referred to each other by rank.

I will add that the Marine basketball, volleyball and softball teams won the season championships every year (usually against the Navy Officer team in the final game)!! :thumb:
 
LITS, agree with you. Marines are easy to spot a mile away! And not all of us are bad dressers! Hahaha!

And I actually spent several years in the Joint and Coalition world. I took over a detachment that had about 20 servicemembers - 10 airmen, some Brits, sailors, soldiers and one other Marine. I think the Airmen thought I was going to be some drill instructor. I did change a few things around and to be honest I raised the leadership and accountability standard on them. In the end things ran smoothly and we had no issues. There were some growing pains, but it worked.
 
A question for those who have served or are currently serving in the Navy: When on a ship, is the enlisted-officer relationship more formal than when at a liberty port? Also, do enlisted usually refer to officers as "Sir/Ma'am" or "Lieutenant" or their respective rank?
 
I'm not navy, I'm air force. But on the addressing of rank vs sir or ma'am, in the air force, its an unwritten among many enlisted, or it use to be anyway, that if I said yes major, I showed that I respected their rank. If I said yes sir or ma'am, I respected the individual. But I am willing to concede that cultures do change. It wasn't uncommon to say sir or ma'am to another enlisted either. I still say sir or ma'am to my mom, dad, elders, boss, etc. But if I used your rank, then I was showing respect to the rank, not necessarily the person. Respect of rank is an entitlement. Respect of the individual is earned. I only bring that up for the soon to be new officers. Some will think that because they are an officer, they automatically deserve and have earned respect. Rank and the officer are 2 different things. I knew a major who finally caught on when he noticed many of us addressed him as major, yet, a young lieutenant we said sir to.
 
Typically, for the Coast Guard it was "Mr/Ms" until you got to, sometimes Lt. Cmdr, but usually once you got to Cmdr or Capt you would be referred to by your rank or position...

On my cutter the executive officer was a Lt. Cmdr. We would call him "XO"... my boss was a Lt. We would call him OPS.

But generally it's Mr. NAME until you're a senior officer (which in the Navy and Coast Guard is a Cmdr and Capt.).
 
Hands down, the USMC leads the pack when it comes to military bearing. I used to work as a GS civilian in a Marine office. Even my boss (O5) would stand ramrod straight and sound off like a Pfc. when knocking on his boss’ (O6) door.

I believe its actually written down that for the ENS-LT are adressed as Mr./Mrs./Ms. and LCDR and up are addressed by rank. My memory is a little hazy though and that may be more formal occassions like a receiving line.

As we can already see there are a lot of “it depends” answers to this question. A big part of the answer for you specifically will be answered once you know your people.

I have found it effective before to be more of a peer than superior. I was a wardroom of one with only E6 and below in my unit. It became a noticeable void not having a Chief to handle day to day issues and by being more of a peer to a couple of high-potential E6s and getting to know them socially I was able to mentor them more effectively and they began filling the Chief void quite well in short order. They had an abundance of natural leadership abilities but had just spent too much time in the “leadership eclipse”. The nature of our unit relationship with our gaining command also made it helpful to have an us vs. them mentality and being more social with my sailors helped that along also. I wouldn’t recommend it for every situation, it was the only time I had been that social with my sailors but it worked for me there.

BTW … “case study” is just another name for “sea story”.
 
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