Relationship between officers and enlisted

Each branch, vs each base/post, vs each scenario may be different, unique, and handled differently by everyone. But I think we all agree: RESPECT of RANK and POSITION must always be adhered to. No matter if the enlisted/officer are on the same base softball team or are next door neighbors and bar-b-que together every weekend. When the uniform goes on, and it's time to get to business, then the lines of rank, respect, command, and authority are recognized and respected. If both parties understand that, then there probably will never be a problem.
 
What are your thoughts about relationships waay out of your chain of command?

For instance I'm stationed on a joint-base and an Air Force enlisted member E-5 has a relationship with an 0-2 in the marine core. Different jobs, different wings, and very unlikely to ever cross paths on the job. By the way it is not public knowledge if that makes any difference and they both keep it private.

Does this cross the line?
 
Arizona said:
What are your thoughts about relationships waay out of your chain of command?

For instance I'm stationed on a joint-base and an Air Force enlisted member E-5 has a relationship with an 0-2 in the marine core. Different jobs, different wings, and very unlikely to ever cross paths on the job. By the way it is not public knowledge if that makes any difference and they both keep it private.

Does this cross the line?
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From: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/airforce/a/fraternization_2.htm

Dating, courtship, and close friendships between men and women are subject to the same policy considerations as are other relationships. Like any personal relationship, they become matters of official concern when they adversely affect morale, discipline, unit cohesion, respect for authority, or mission accomplishment. Members must recognize that these relationships can adversely affect morale and discipline, even when the members are not in the same chain of command or unit.
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Arizona said:
What are your thoughts about relationships waay out of your chain of command?

For instance I'm stationed on a joint-base and an Air Force enlisted member E-5 has a relationship with an 0-2 in the marine core. Different jobs, different wings, and very unlikely to ever cross paths on the job. By the way it is not public knowledge if that makes any difference and they both keep it private.

Does this cross the line?
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Yes. It crosses the line. Is this a prior relationship? There are plenty of examples of an enlisted couple where one member goes to OCS, becomes and officer and the other remains enlisted.
 
I think they know the answer.

If they are keeping it private, and nobody knows, than it tells you if they know they are crossing the line.

Do these relationships occur? Heck yes! I know several wives that left the AF as an enlisted member on Friday, and was engaged to an officer on Sat.

However, if we are talking about frowned upon, than it is simple ask your friend why they are being private about the relationship? The answer is right there.
 
Yes, it does cross the fraternization line (by quite a bit).

Now, if they keep it secret, it doesn't affect good order and discipline, and (SUPRISE!) they just show up married one day, I doubt their commander's will pursue much action against them.
 
I will also add, beware having a relationship like this.

I am a woman, so don't flame me.

Our friend had a relationship with an enlisted member. They were in different squadrons. He ended it, and she wasn't happy about it.

The 1st thing she did to that O2...contacted his squadron commander and report their affair. It was dusted under the rug, but he saw the cards on the table...FWIC was no longer an option. He left as soon as he could.

There is a very funny side to this story. This occurred during Gulf 1, and they actually shipped him back to Heyford, his base. He took leave and went back home for a few weeks. His Mom contacted the NBA team there, he got courtside seats, and a huge announcement of welcome home our war hero, flew X missions over Iraq was made to the crowd, where he got a standing O.

Little did they know the reason why he was one of the 1st to come home!
 
So just to get a little more info out of this topic, how about a relationship between O's? Assuming that it is across branch's, would you still expect them to keep it hush hush? Or what if its the same branch but different chains?
 
Ambition said:
So just to get a little more info out of this topic, how about a relationship between O's? Assuming that it is across branch's, would you still expect them to keep it hush hush? Or what if its the same branch but different chains?
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It's not really any different than the civilian world. Would you date your supervisor, boss, ceo of the company, etc...? No. So, if you're an officer, just don't date ANYONE in your "Chain of command". UP or DOWN. Date someone in a different squadron, unit, etc... Best thing is to not date ANYONE you work WITH, FOR, or works FOR YOU. This goes for enlisted AND officers.
 
The O's that are not in the same squadron, do not keep it hush hush. Wives in squadrons have monthly coffees. Typically when the guy/gal is deployed, their dating S.O. has been known already for months (1st Fridays, hail/farewells, BBQs, etc), and is invited to attend these functions even if they are not married.

The couples that I know that got married later on late 20's/early 30's typically were 1 of 2 examples.

1. Military, but not in their squadron...nurse, JAG, CE, etc
2. Someone's sister in the squadron. At Elmendorf in the 90th, there were 5 weddings in 4 yrs. All of the brides were introduced to the groom when visiting her family.
~~~ It is funny, you are all best friends until you start dating their sister!

Let's be honest if they didn't expect you to meet someone and fall in love, as long as it is not in your chain, than they would have never made the joint assignment rule for married couples.
 
Ambition said:
So just to get a little more info out of this topic, how about a relationship between O's? Assuming that it is across branch's, would you still expect them to keep it hush hush? Or what if its the same branch but different chains?
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Even cadet land has its fraternization rules. For instance, here at USCGA only 4/c can date 4/c, 3/c can date classmates and 2/c, 2/c class can date 3/c, classmates, and 1/c, and 1/c can date 2/c, their classmates, and O-1's who were in the class ahead of theirs.

Not too sure how it works at usafa, usna, or usma though.
 
I wish I could save this thread and return in 4 years right before I go to my first duty station.

Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app.
 
Art.Perea said:
I wish I could save this thread and return in 4 years right before I go to my first duty station.

Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app.
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No need. Luckily people have been figuring out the relationships long before SAF existed. You'll know what's appropriate and what's not before you get to your first duty station. How you approach those relationships, however, will be up to you. :thumb:
 
It's not like it's really much different than the civilian world. In a company, it's not a problem dating your peers. But you wouldn't date your supervisor. And in reverse, you wouldn't date a subordinate. If you did, one of you would eventually find a different position at the company or find a different job. Same with fraternization. You probably won't see the VP of marketing (Or the commanding officer) hanging out and partying with the folks in the mail room (Or the airman living in the dorm).

I don't know why people have so many questions about this. You don't date the person you work for or who works for you. Technically, a commissioned officer shouldn't be dating another military person who isn't a commissioned officer. However, if those two individual's jobs have nothing to do with each other, they never interact at work, and there is no PDA (Public Display of Affection) while in uniform; it it very unlikely that too many people will care.
 
Christcorp said:
However, if those two individual's jobs have nothing to do with each other, they never interact at work, and there is no PDA (Public Display of Affection) while in uniform; it it very unlikely that too many people will care.
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Maybe it's not as big of a deal in the Air Force. I know of one classmate who dated an enlisted member of another unit. Someone found out and she's not longer in the Coast Guard.

It's a fire I wouldn't play with... at least the Coast Guard.
 
LineInTheSand said:
Maybe it's not as big of a deal in the Air Force. I know of one classmate who dated an enlisted member of another unit. Someone found out and she's not longer in the Coast Guard.

It's a fire I wouldn't play with... at least the Coast Guard.
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Army policy prohibits "dating, shared living accommodations other than those directed by operational requirements, and intimate or sexual relationships between officers and enlisted personnel."

I can't download the actual requlatoin, but per Defense.gov " Air Force policy states the following:Officers will not form personal relationships with enlisted members on or off duty." Perhaps, in Air Force, it's not inforced . . .

http://www.defense.gov/specials/fraternization/

My advice to cadets/midshipmen are do your research properly. For cacual conversation "read it on the internet," "John/Jane told me," "Someone told me," "that's how we always did it," and etc works fine, but for regulatory matters the only thing that matter is what is written.
 
I know what the regulations say. I referenced that. However; I'm saying that such relation can and do happen. Whether it becomes a problem is totally up to the individuals. In colorado, a friend of mine is an officer. She is stationed at one of the air force bases. She's been dating an enlisted man in the "Army", stationed close by. They keep their private life private.

Until recently, you weren't allowed to openly be gay. Yet, the military had plenty of gays in the military. Not arguing what the regulations say. I do know what they say. But if an officer and enlisting are dating, and they keep it private, and their jobs never bring the two of them together, then there's a good chance that no one would ever know. I know my friend is talking about marriage; but they are talking about one of them getting out of the military. Not because of regulations, but because it's hard enough to do a "Joint spouse"; it's even harder when the 2 are in different branches of the military. And for what it's worth, it's not fraternization if an officer and enlisted are married to each other.
 
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Christcorp said:
. . . I'm saying that such relation can and do happen. Whether it becomes a problem is totally up to the individuals. . .
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I don't this agree with you, but what I am concerned about is about young folks extracting wrong information/not realizing what the conseqences are.

Say, you are a squadron commander and you overheard one of your CPTs talking about a sexual encounter with an enlisted soldier, what do you do? I will be first to admit that I don't follow all the rules myself.
 
It's not a matter of always following the rules. Do you know how many officers and enlisted are married to each other. A LOT. You give an example of "Over hearing". Well; that's the problem. If you keep your private life private, and the two careers don't intersect each others, then usually nothing is said. In ALL branches of the military.

Granted, the larger percentage of married officers and enlisted is because BOTH were enlisted and one received their degree, got accepted to OCS, and got commissioned. And NO, the military doesn't require one of them to get out or get a divorce. Another common method is one being active duty and the other being in the guard. But it's not uncommon for both to be active and married. And it's quite unlikely that they met and decided to get married without spending any time together first.

All I'm saying is this is no different than the civilian world and it's no different than pre-2012 gays in the military policy. I'm simply stating facts. Right or wrong, you all make your own conclusions.
 
Christcorp said:
All I'm saying is this is no different than the civilian world and it's no different than pre-2012 gays in the military policy. I'm simply stating facts. Right or wrong, you all make your own conclusions.
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And I'm saying I know more than one homosexual member of the military who was kicked out because someone DID find out.

But everything is that way. Kill someone. Steal a car. Rob a bank. Cheat on a test. It's all fine and dandy until someone finds out. Then, you're screwed.

Same think with don't ask don't tell. Same thing with relationships between officers and enlisted.

You CAN lose your job over it. I've seen it. You've seen it. Just because it's in private doesn't make it right. Just because not everyone believes it's wrong doesn't mean you won't be shown the door when it is discovered.
 
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