Reporting an injury after DoDMERB Exam

It is a failure to disclose. Take anyway you want.
I don't know that I actually dislocated my shoulder, I just think I did and so did an athletic trainer. I was never diagnosed. What would I even tell them my condition is? A doctor never told me what happened to me.
 
Which SA's are you applying to?

If you are seeking to go USMA or USNA with an interest in the Marines, your shoulder is going to be extremely important (rappelling, climbing, etc.) . The other SA's will find it important but not as much. READ the instructions for the SA websites.

If you read the verbiage in the USCGA and USAFA, the instructions are very clear. If you don't disclose, I think you will be always looking over your shoulder. If you disclose and it turns out your okay, you will hopefully pass or get a waiver. If you are truly injured, you need to get help regardless if you serve or not. If you were my kid, I would send you to a doc. I am very surprised that your trainer is not requiring it in order for you to participate!
 
Which SA's are you applying to?

If you are seeking to go USMA or USNA with an interest in the Marines, your shoulder is going to be extremely important (rappelling, climbing, etc.) . The other SA's will find it important but not as much. READ the instructions for the SA websites.

If you read the verbiage in the USCGA and USAFA, the instructions are very clear. If you don't disclose, I think you will be always looking over your shoulder. If you disclose and it turns out your okay, you will hopefully pass or get a waiver. If you are truly injured, you need to get help regardless if you serve or not. If you were my kid, I would send you to a doc. I am very surprised that your trainer is not requiring it in order for you to participate!
USMA, USNA, Army ROTC, and Navy ROTC.
I'm fine now so if I went to a doctor I'm not sure what I would even ask him for.
What injury should I disclose? I don't know what injury I had for sure that's just what I think and the trainer thinks happened. If they ask for medical history for it I'll have nothing because I have never visited a doctor for it and a doctor never told me I hurt my shoulder.
 
I talked to the trainer and he said they do keep records but that what he says amd puts in the records doesn't matter to the military because they are not doctors and only diagnosises given by doctors mean anything to them.
If you're so determined not to report it, then why did you come here for advice? As far as they're finding out if it happens again, I imagine a doctor may very well be able to examine it and determine that it had happened before. Just my guess though.

Would you want them to keep you out now, or would you rather wait on your final DoDMERB prior to commissioning, when you have to pay them back hundreds of thousands of dollars?
 
It is a new injury that needs to be disclosed and evaluated by an ortho. We will not condone your failure to disclose on this forum. I do not understand why you keep pressing us to support your decision on non disclosure to DodMERB. They will send you for evaluation and through the process of re-clearing. Why are you making excuses to hide this? Many candidates have had injuries years ago that healed, and they had to go through the process of getting waived/cleared. What makes you think that you should not have to do the same.
 
I talked to the trainer and he said they do keep records but that what he says amd puts in the records doesn't matter to the military because they are not doctors and only diagnosises given by doctors mean anything to them.
If you're so determined not to report it, then why did you come here for advice? As far as they're finding out if it happens again, I imagine a doctor may very well be able to examine it and determine that it had happened before. Just my guess though.

Would you want them to keep you out now, or would you rather wait on your final DoDMERB prior to commissioning, when you have to pay them back hundreds of thousands of dollars?
I'm not determined to not report it but I would definitely prefer not to. I just emailed the people at DoDMERB and I'm gonna do what they say.
 
It is a new injury that needs to be disclosed and evaluated by an ortho. We will not condone your failure to disclose on this forum. I do not understand why you keep pressing us to support your decision on non disclosure to DodMERB. They will send you for evaluation and through the process of re-clearing. Why are you making excuses to hide this? Many candidates have had injuries years ago that healed, and they had to go through the process of getting waived/cleared. What makes you think that you should not have to do the same.
I am not making excuses you are telling me I should report something that I'm not sure even happened. If I had trouble breathing one time, should I tell them that I had asthma? One time my leg started hurting a little bit, should I tell them I tore my ACL? Am I supposed to diagnose myself with as many conditions as I can possibly think of that there is any chance I could possibly have?

Also you said that you won't condone my failure to disclose then you ask me why I think I'm special which contradicts what you just said, and I don't think I'm special. I just don't want to create a huge mess for myself when I didn't have to.
 
I am not making excuses you are telling me I should report something that I'm not sure even happened. If I had trouble breathing one time, should I tell them that I had asthma? One time my leg started hurting a little bit, should I tell them I tore my ACL? Am I supposed to diagnose myself with as many conditions as I can possibly think of that there is any chance I could possibly have?

Also you said that you won't condone my failure to disclose then you ask me why I think I'm special which contradicts what you just said, and I don't think I'm special. I just don't want to create a huge mess for myself when I didn't have to.

I certainly understand and agree with your position. If it were me, prior to reporting, if your told to report, is to actually go see a real live doctor. As you said, there's no point to opening a can of worms that does not exist.
 
Sorry..Never said that you think you are special. Do what you want. It is clear you have made your decision. We can only offer advice as to what others have gone through and what "we" feel is the right thing to do. You opened up your own "can of worms" by posting this on the forum. I'm not sure what you want from us. Do you want us to support your position, or give you advice on doing the right thing? I'm hard when it comes to integrity and honor code issues. It is, what it is. I'm old school Navy with a strong moral compass. With that in mind, you can process my comments on that level. Best of luck with whatever decision you make.
 
Kiddo- I am not sure you should report it. I do not think it will be "uncovered" during background checks. IF your shoulder is fully functional and pain free and IF you are fully returned to all activity without a change, then I don't think it needs to be reported. You did not see a doc, you have no diagnosis. As I understand it, once you are in the academy, your medical records are a bit of a clean slate going forward. They don't substantially go back in time or through old records unless there is specific reason to suspect a pre-existing condition. And- even if that happened for this shoulder deal, what would be found? Nothing- according to your posts.

Please let me know what dodmerb advises. Was your inquiry to dodmerb confidential?
 
Kiddo- I am not sure you should report it. I do not think it will be "uncovered" during background checks. IF your shoulder is fully functional and pain free and IF you are fully returned to all activity without a change, then I don't think it needs to be reported. You did not see a doc, you have no diagnosis. As I understand it, once you are in the academy, your medical records are a bit of a clean slate going forward. They don't substantially go back in time or through old records unless there is specific reason to suspect a pre-existing condition. And- even if that happened for this shoulder deal, what would be found? Nothing- according to your posts.

Please let me know what dodmerb advises. Was your inquiry to dodmerb confidential?
No it wasn't confidential they required me to put my name and the last 4 digits of my social security number in my email so I'll just have to do whatever they tell me to.

I'm fully functional right now but I'm kind of worried that it might pop out while I'm at an academy/ROTC or while I'm serving. 10 years is a long time and even though I'm fully recovered the odds of me dislocating it once in 10 years are probably decent. I've only been alive 17 years and it's popped out once. 10 isn't that much smaller than 17.

They might be able to find stuff by talking to my friends and teachers because half the school was at the game and saw it happen.
 
Listen, I'm not trying to bust on you. I ran into some folks while on active duty that lost everything they worked for because of a similar situation. I'm just trying to keep you on a straight path, not a crooked one. Sorry if it upset you.
 
The rest of my post disappeared. What it said was- if the non reporting thing is eating you up, that's probably your gut telling you that you are concerned it could still be a problem in the future (or would be found out). In that case, so you can sleep and not get an ulcer, report it.

I am curious what dodmerb will tell you.
 
Listen, I'm not trying to bust on you. I ran into some folks while on active duty that lost everything they worked for because of a similar situation. I'm just trying to keep you on a straight path, not a crooked one. Sorry if it upset you.
Thanks for the help. Don't worry I'm not upset.
 
The DoDMERB instructions state the following:

"MEDICAL STANDARDS. Throughout this enclosure, ICD, CPT and HCPCS codes are
included with most medical conditions and procedures, usually parenthetically, to aid cross-
referencing. Unless otherwise stipulated, the conditions listed in this enclosure are those that do
NOT meet the standard by virtue of current diagnosis, or for which the candidate has a verified
past medical history.
The medical standards for appointment, enlistment, or induction into the
Military Services are classified by the general systems described in sections 3-3031 of this
enclosure."

OP, you have not been diagnosed nor do you have a verified past medical history, so as of right now, you do not have a disqualifying condition, and if you don't see a doctor about it, you won't have a disqualifying condition regarding your shoulder. I don't think they could "get you" for failing to disclose your shoulder injury since you did not fail to disclose a disqualifying condition.

It is a new injury that needs to be disclosed and evaluated by an ortho.
If you don't disclose, I think you will be always looking over your shoulder.

This is just my opinion, and I'm just a candidate so take it with a grain of salt, but I disagree with this. The OP's condition is not disqualifying just as a paper-cut is not disqualifying. What injuries are supposed to be reported? Should all injuries be reported? Should paper-cuts be reported? In my opinion paper-cuts shouldn't be because a paper-cut will not disqualify a candidate. On the same token, I don't think the OP must report their condition because it is not disqualifying according to the instructions.

On the USCGA website it says "Failure to disclose pre-existing disqualifying conditions can be grounds for separation from the Academy"

If the OP decides to not disclose the condition they cannot separate him for that reason because he did not fail to disclose any disqualifying conditions.

On the USAFA website it says " Note that the medical qualification for Academy entrance is based on the assumption that your DODMERB medical examination reflects your true medical status. You can ensure this by IMMEDIATELY reporting any change in your medical status "

The OP's medical status wouldn't change based on his injury since it is not disqualifying, so he did not fail to report a condition that would change his medical status.

By not telling DoDMERB, I do not see any rule that the OP is breaking and I see 0 risk associated with not reporting it. Even if they were to do background checks and find out that he was injured(and I would be shocked if they actually went back to his school and started questioning people about a shoulder injury), it wouldn't matter because he did not fail to disclose a disqualifying condition. Whether it is ethical or not to keep the injury a secret is another question, but not reporting the injury does not seem to break any of the rules.

 
frenzymondo - where did you day you got your legal degree? Let me know how that works out for you.

Meanwhile here is my take. OP suffered an injury that MAY be disqualifying. OP should not report it blindly but it is incumbent on him to determine if it IS medically disqualifying. If it is he should report it. If its not then his conscience is clear. Avoiding an examination just to say he doesn't have a disqualifying condition is not a smart move health wise or otherwise. Just my 2 cents.

As usual the decision is OP's.
 
frenzymondo - where did you day you got your legal degree? Let me know how that works out for you.
I don't have a legal degree but based on the instructions the OP would not be breaking any of the rules by not reporting it so it wouldn't make sense that he would get in any trouble for not reporting it. I could be wrong that's why I said things like "I think", "I'm just a candidate so take it with a grain of salt", "does not seem" and "I don't think".
OP should not report it blindly but it is incumbent on him to determine if it IS medically disqualifying. If it is he should report it. If its not then his conscience is clear.
If the OP reads the instructions he can determine that his case is not medically disqualifying since he has not been diagnosed and he doesn't have a verified past medical history."conditions listed in this enclosure are those that do
NOT meet the standard by virtue of current diagnosis, or for which the candidate has a verified
past medical history."


Here are the full instructions:
http://dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/613003p.pdf

If the OP goes to the doctor, I think it is just about a gaurenteed DQ. D225.00 says History of any dislocation, subluxation, or instability of the shoulder History of any dislocation, subluxation, or instability of the shoulder. There was a person on here that dislocated their shoulder their freshman or sophomore year and fully recovered but was still disqualified for it. I had a shoulder subluxation my junior year, fully recovered, and right now I am DQ'd for it(I could get a waiver but that isn't a guarantee). They didn't even ask for more information about it they just DQ'd me. The OP had a shoulder dislocation(which is more severe than a subluxation) in his senior year and fully recovered.
 
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Now my shoulder is ok but the trainer is still making me wear the brace to make sure it doesn't pop out


Minnesota,

There are a couple of absolutes for you to deal with:

-If your shoulder were OK, you wouldn't be wearing a brace.

-If the shoulder dislocation was not diagnosed by a doctor, then it didn't happen and you are within your rights to not report it.

-Any later claim of ignorance, particularly after this discussion, would be disingenuous, prevarication, dissembling, dissimulation...you pick the word.

-If the dislocation did happen, diagnosed or not, there is a greater likelihood of it happening again. The likelihood increases with each incident. This is the exact progression with my shoulder starting more than 40 years ago. This is why, untreated, it is a disqualifier. That is also why the trainer has you in a brace.

-Until you are properly diagnosed and treated, you will not go one day without thinking about it. You will not do any physical activity without holding back ever so slightly or a lot. My first was at 17, jacking around on a now illegal ride at the State Fair. My second was at 19, wrestling with my roommate. My third, at 21, was waterskiing. I was not thinking about it when it happened. The first two times, the shoulder was reduced at the hospital. The third time, it popped back in. I had the surgery at 22.

-Nowadays, the surgery is so successful and minimally invasive, that the injury can be waiverable. I had the good fortune of having surgery just when they started repairs without using pins. Thirty-seven years later I have total mobility, total strength, and most important, total confidence in the shoulder.

-If you continue on the non-treatment path you should devote your life to properly rehabbing the shoulder. The trainer, unless he/she is a physician or physical therapist, is unqualified to give you a proper regimen. You can't go to a physical therapist without a diagnosis, so you'll have to research it on your own. As much as you strengthen the muscles around the shoulder, the "damage" has been done and the greater likelihood of recurrence still exists.

-It would look really funny if you showed up for your first PT wearing a shoulder brace.

I wish you the best of luck!
 
I can't say enough that I agree with cb.

Here's something that many don't get....this will not be your last DoDMERB exam. You will do it again just prior to commissioning. Thus:
1. If you re-injure it again, you may be deemed DQ prior to commissioning.
~ 4 years down the drain.
2. If you forgot that you acknowledge this in HS for the exam, but acknowledge 4 years later that you knew of this issue than you are risking your commission impo.
~ ROTC may require you to pay back the scholarship. They will see it as you lied from the beginning, and that means the scholarship is void. It is a legal contract. Don't believe me, there was a poster here that said on their HS DODMERB they smoked MJ 1x. Go the scholarship and came clean that it was 3x. He was booted and handed a bill. That was for Marijuana. Do you think they won't do it for an injury that you hid, but thought you had.

Go to a doc and have them clear you.

frenzy.

We always say here that it is a case by case scenario. You got a DQ, but that doesn't mean they will get it. they may get a remedial. They may get the DQ, but go to a specialist (doc) that was prior military and can submit a finding that is written in a way that they get a waiver. They may decide to hire DoDMERB consultants.

I am with kinnem and the other posters. I think your advice is misplaced. I think it teeters on lieing by omission.
~ Just me, but a true officer lives and dies by their integrity. His injury may mean he could risk a mission later on because he did not acknowledge this aspect at 18.
~I am just saying that what I am reading from you is: Don't acknowledge it at all. Don't go to a doc, because chances are you will have to do...OMG... a waiver like you!

Again, this is a ROTC candidate, and we do not know which branch. Heck, he could be easily cleared via a waiver by AFROTC for flying a desk, but not flying a plane. He could be cleared to go Guard or Reserve Army, but not AD.
 
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by virtue of current diagnosis, or for which the candidate has a verified
past medical history.

Frenzy, the OP NOW has a verified PAST MEDICAL HISTORY (do you have now or have you ever had....), it does not matter whether or not he has seen a doctor. I agree 100% with cb7893. When you have a shoulder dislocation "pop right back in" you know it and there is no question about it. It's a very painful and obvious injury that anyone, even without a medical degree can determine, even the OP. And I have a feeling he knows it too, but does not want to face the reality. I can understand him trying to rationalize it, but as for you, you know all too well that there is no mistaking such an injury. In another post you said you were DQ'd for a minor subluxation for which you did not have surgery nor physical therapy and have no issues. You maxed out on your CFA and played football and basketball without a hint of problem and you were still DQ'd. The reality is, the OP had a dislocation, even if minor, and just because he did not see a doctor and decides not to report it to DodMERB, it doesn't mean it did not happen.

To the OP: the reason you are even asking this question tells us all that you know that you may be DQ'd because of it and you are having a hard time dealing with that reality.We can all understand that, Frenzy more that anyone, but the right thing to do is report any change to DodMERB. If you are DQ'd and you are competitive enough, a waiver will be requested and you can go from there. No one will ever fault you for doing the right thing and it takes courage to do that in the face of a decision that will affect the rest of your life. I think you did the right thing by contacting DoDMERB and asking them. They will guide you down the right path. Please let us all know what happens and please don't take my next comment to be flippant because I mean it with the most sincere sentiment, if it takes a year and you have to reapply, you will have a great subject to write about for your essay. I wish you best of luck, but I have confidence that you will shine no matter what.
 
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