Requesting Help for DS - SAT vs. ACT

thank you very much for that detailed info! it does make things a bit easier to understand.

However, we are NY District 03. But we were specifically told there were no principals given--only competitive slates. I asked Congressman Suozzi myself. FWIW, I was also told at DD's Senator Gillibrand interview that her panel only interviewed between 200 and 250 of her several thousand applicants and at Senator Schumer's interview, we were told only 25 were being interviewed.I Both of the Senator offices also mentioned only competitive slates as well. So i'm not sure who would've nominated a principal in NY. Now... I also suppose I could've been given misinformation, by accident of course.


It's the waiting that's driving me into a crazed parent!!! I know the military is "hurry up and wait"; it's just not what I am used to!
 
following......my DD has an SAT of 1490 (math 760, verbal 730) and ACT composite of 35, math 35, verbal 34 and SAT2's: Math 2 score 770, physics score 800. Our school district doesn't do class rank. She has taken 7 AP exams so far and is an AP Scholar with Distinction (scored a 4 on 5 exams, a 3 on 2 exams) and is currently a senior, taking 4 AP classes which will require 6 AP exams to be taken come May, 2018. She is also a Gold National Spanish Award winner (top 3% in the country) and has 3 NYS-Scholar Athlete awards and a county Sportsmanship Award. She has a competitive CFA (was told by admissions coordinator), passed her medical (DoDMERB qualified status as of today, woohoo) and has a congressional nomination (although still not uploaded in DD's portal yet). She is a co-founder of 2 STEM-related clubs and vice president of 1. Her GPA is 97. Anyone have any insight on a LOA for her? would she even get a LOA since she is now complete (although I don't think USNA knows she's complete since medical and nom are not in portal yet)?

sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread...just trying to give another perspective and gain some insight since "academic LOA" was mentioned with what looks like similar stats/classes.
Amazed, your DD sounds very accomplished and I wish her the best of luck. As many have said on this forum before, don't count on an LOA or early admission. Expect to go the distance until March or April. If she hears something sooner, fantastic!
 
thank you very much for that detailed info! it does make things a bit easier to understand.

However, we are NY District 03. But we were specifically told there were no principals given--only competitive slates. I asked Congressman Suozzi myself. FWIW, I was also told at DD's Senator Gillibrand interview that her panel only interviewed between 200 and 250 of her several thousand applicants and at Senator Schumer's interview, we were told only 25 were being interviewed.I Both of the Senator offices also mentioned only competitive slates as well. So i'm not sure who would've nominated a principal in NY. Now... I also suppose I could've been given misinformation, by accident of course.


It's the waiting that's driving me into a crazed parent!!! I know the military is "hurry up and wait"; it's just not what I am used to!
I would not advise talking directly with MOCS as a parent. The candidate should always be out front and in charge of the process. I didn't go to my son's interviews for that reason. Help them make decisions but, but it is ultimately their responsibility.
 
I agree with Dadx4. But understand the worry and wait. It sucks to finish early and wait for months. Everything will happen the way it's supposed to be. If not given Appointment between Jan 15-Feb 15 you will hear from the Academy what else you need to do. But again your son daughter have to ask. They will not tell you.

If you're from NY03 you should have received a call from Congressman Tom Suozzi himself in mid December. That's when he personally called the Nominated candidates to let them know what SA you were given Noms. Only one Nom per candidate. No multiple Noms like other states. If did not get a call then you will know by the week of Jan 2-5.
 
I wouldn't mess with sending transcripts unless they ask. Unless he has stellar grades in all. Eventually they will ask for all grades but no need to send if they don't ask.
I may not have articulated very well - DS provided transcript from junior year - many APs- all As - ranked 14/410 in class. He has just completed 1st semester of sr year will all As, including three APs (calculus BC, physics 2 and lit/Corp). Should he proactively send these new Sr year grades since they are calculus and physics?
 
In his case yes. He finished strong! And that's excellent. But may not add additional point to his WCS since he's already maxing out in school performance. They may be more interested in his ranking change since his school seems to disclose ranking. Based on your thread he is ranked top 3%. If his SAT or ACT national rank is better he will miss out because he is ranked by his school. So. USNA will use his ranking by his school.

Regarding sending in report card. Many across the nation don't finish Sem 1 until end of Jan. If he's done then send it. Because they will ask for it anyways. USMA Portal will start asking for Sem 7 report in Jan. Getting an LOA at this point is very rare and really doesn't mean much anymore since people are receiving the real Appointment beginning mid Jan. Appointment is what you want now not the LOA. So finish everything that's outstanding in your file. Very few people who got LOA, approximately 10% of the admitted class already revived LOA between mid Aug - mid Dec. for them it is very meaningful since it is before the Nom interviews which Helps MOCs during their selection and also to focus what program and colleges to make applications. I hope this was helpful.
 
USMA made very few LOAs this year. Most LOAs were JROTC/ROTC and Presidential Nom candidates and recruited Athletes. But USMA offered LOEs. Based on what many said in forums about 80% of LOE holders get admitted to the Academy. Also 40% of SLEs gain Appointment to USMA. USAFA about 50-60% of their Summer Seminar Cadet Candidates gain Appointment. USNA NASS about 15%. This is because they admit 2000-2500 to NASS. I hope this was helpful to few new forum members.
 
I agree with Dadx4. But understand the worry and wait. It sucks to finish early and wait for months. Everything will happen the way it's supposed to be. If not given Appointment between Jan 15-Feb 15 you will hear from the Academy what else you need to do. But again your son daughter have to ask. They will not tell you.

If you're from NY03 you should have received a call from Congressman Tom Suozzi himself in mid December. That's when he personally called the Nominated candidates to let them know what SA you were given Noms. Only one Nom per candidate. No multiple Noms like other states. If did not get a call then you will know by the week of Jan 2-5.




Patriot4Life....I guess I should've been a little more clear. I spoke to Congressman Suozzi when he called the house (while my DD was at school since it was before 2pm) to tell her he was nominating her. This did take place mid-Dec. I did not speak directly with either Senator, but rather was asked if I had any questions upon completion of my DD's interview as she returned to me in the waiting area both times. I'm merely reiterating the responses I was given. My DD is handling all of her college/military stuff...I'm just the driver, worrier, high-fiver and occasional lunch-buyer.

Good luck to every candidate- to even contemplate a SA, you are already impressive! No way did I mean to overstep or upset anyone. I apologize if this occurred. And clearly I haven't figured out how to quote properly!
 
No worries. All is good. Your daughter has at least one Nom to one SA and maybe 1-2 more Noms coming. I think your daughter is fine. You should just now enjoy the remaining time with your daughter. She only needs one Nom per school. And one SA to attend in July. If she is already set with an SA she should just inform the SAs when she gets the official Nom and Appointment she wants to take. So it gives other Applicants chance to get their Nom. If she plans on attending Civ college with ROTC same thing. Let the SAs know dinner than later so gives chance to other qualified candidates.
 
Asians are over represented at 7%. Korean ancestry make up about 80% Asians. So tougher as Korean American. National average is 3.5% Asians. Blacks from urban areas are vastly under represented. So good to be from this category. Hispanics are also given priority. White is fine but I would think more advantageous to as female at schools like USMA USNA USCGA but not USAFA. Females are well represented at Air Force due to better life style fixed base and missions. I am not an expert nor represent the views of the SAs but I heard enough from 4 out of 5 SA admissions, grads and alumni societies to share my point of view. Hope this is helpful.

I thought I should edit this previous post with more accurate data comping the Census Bureau. We actually have slightly more female than male in America. Asians are represented at SAs at 6-7% (very close to natl avg), mixed race with Asian and others it shoots up to 14.7%. Whites are represented exactly by proportion at most SAs 61-62%. Blacks 6.5% (about half the natl avg), Hispanics (12% close but under the natl avg), and Native American Indians are not well represented at 0.0001% (could be that not enough apply and not enough qualified applicants). I think the SAs are doing a very good job to balance the racial mix with qualified applicants throughout America and Americans living abroad.

Population 2017 - July Estimate, US Census Bureau
Population estimates, July 1, 2017, (V2017) 325,719,178
Male 49%
Female 51%

White alone, percent, July 1, 2016, (V2016)(a) 76.9%
Black or African American alone, percent, July 1, 2016, (V2016)(a) 13.3%
American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent, July 1, 2016, (V2016)(a) 1.3%
Asian alone, percent, July 1, 2016, (V2016)(a) 5.7%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent, July 1, 2016, (V2016)(a) 0.2%
Two or More Races, percent, July 1, 2016, (V2016) 2.6%
Hispanic or Latino, percent, July 1, 2016, (V2016)(b) 17.8%
White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent, July 1, 2016, (V2016) 61.3%
 
Yes you read correctly. Of course that is an estimate and based on Academy grads at USMA USNA USAFA. Traditionally Korean parents encourage their children to serve the country in the military and have tremendous respect for SAs, status and respect equal to the Ivies. All Korean males in Korea must serve in the Military for 20-26 Months active duty and stay on reserve until their late 30s. But not in Japan China and Southeast Asia, except Singapore. Singapore follows the Swiss Model. Every male serve briefly and stay on reserve for many years. I think Germany no longer has the mandatory 1 year military service.

It is relatively a smaller number when compared to other top colleges where Asians make up 20-50%. UC system has the most Asians. Nevertheless, Asians are still few and small number in ROTC Programs across the country. Probably makeup less than 7% at most ROTC Battalions and Units except the UC Schools. Most Asians still pursue STEM Majors and careers. Over 40% are Asians at most UC Schools. Another interesting data to share with folks in this forum.
 
I redid his ACT to SAT. He will actually get V800 M800 = 1600. Even better! Navy will use percentile on each sections. 99% percentile gets 800. Worst case he will get M770. All good!

Navy ROTC Scholarship will use the same scoring for his scholarship if he applies to NROTC which he should. But the colleges will still evaluate him on his true score her gets on each section so he should continue to take the test until he gets all sections past 30+ including Writing.[/QUO
Ok. LOA is only given for the following reasons:

URM and candidates coming from a non competitive district

Recruited athlete

Strong References

Presidential or JROTC/ROTC Noms

ACT 34 or SAT 1550 and have everything else in leadership athletics and top priority ECs like Eagle Scout Gold Award and Boys/Girls State. National level medals and awards. Extensive service hours.

GPA not a factor but expect you to have all As and Bs. Mostly As. A includes A and A-. Expect candidates to have taken through Calculus and 4 years of Lab Science. Taking many APs not a factor. They don't take SAT Subject tests either. Mostly advance math and science to assess you can handle STEM in SAs. School US National rank and school college admissions rate also weighed.

Class rank is more important than GPA. If not Ranked given then rank taken from ACT/SAT. SAT rank is easier than ACT.

Being a female Is also advantage. And female from URM category even better. Everything counts.

You can still get LOA without CFA Noms DODMERB. But you will need to have passed and gotten all of these if you want LOA to become Appointment.

Only USCGA is pure Merit based like civilian colleges. SAs don't select candidates on pure merit. You can have everything Mentioned on the above and still not get selected because you competitive against highly qualified pool. If you are from Orange County CA or Suffolk NASSAU County New York or Fairfax County Northern Virginia which are some of the most competitive counties in the US you have a very tough battle to fight. You can read these threads through this forum.

NY District 3 had 700 applicants to SAs this year. Only 40 were invited to interview and 4 were given principal Noms. ACT and SAT are as high as 36 and 1600 in these counties.

If your son daughter just applied then it may not be until after the first selection is done you may hear from the SAs. Her score and background looks strong. If she's not from the above counties she should have excellent chance.
Just curious, do you work for USNA?
 
No I do not. I do not represent the views of the SAs nor do I claim to. My assessment is all based on some experience what I heard from grads and candidates in current and past running what I read and evaluation of some private sources and publicly available data. I hope this is helpful.
 
I redid his ACT to SAT. He will actually get V800 M800 = 1600. Even better! Navy will use percentile on each sections. 99% percentile gets 800. Worst case he will get M770. All good!

Navy ROTC Scholarship will use the same scoring for his scholarship if he applies to NROTC which he should. But the colleges will still evaluate him on his true score her gets on each section so he should continue to take the test until he gets all sections past 30+ including Writing.

I'm confused how this would make sense. I'm at a 35 math & 35 English which I was told would equate to a 1560, and I have a 1530 currently. Why would 99th percentile on the ACT get 800 when 800 on the SAT is a higher percentile than 99?(I forgot the exact number, but 1530 is around 99.6) Wouldn't a 36 equate to a 800?
 
I redid his ACT to SAT. He will actually get V800 M800 = 1600. Even better! Navy will use percentile on each sections. 99% percentile gets 800. Worst case he will get M770. All good!

Navy ROTC Scholarship will use the same scoring for his scholarship if he applies to NROTC which he should. But the colleges will still evaluate him on his true score her gets on each section so he should continue to take the test until he gets all sections past 30+ including Writing.

I'm confused how this would make sense. I'm at a 35 math & 35 English which I was told would equate to a 1560, and I have a 1530 currently. Why would 99th percentile on the ACT get 800 when 800 on the SAT is a higher percentile than 99?(I forgot the exact number, but 1530 is around 99.6) Wouldn't a 36 equate to a 800?

I'm not sure breakitbuyit, but I can tell you that if my DS had your outstanding scores, life would be much less confusing. Congrats!
 
I'm confused how this would make sense. I'm at a 35 math & 35 English which I was told would equate to a 1560, and I have a 1530 currently. Why would 99th percentile on the ACT get 800 when 800 on the SAT is a higher percentile than 99?(I forgot the exact number, but 1530 is around 99.6) Wouldn't a 36 equate to a 800?

Apply to Navy ROTC Scholarship with ACT and you’ll find out! But with your current SAT score doing the Math and comps are meaningless. You have already surpassed the respectable! Just focus on finishing your final semester strong and enjoy the rest of your Senior year and spend quality time with your family and friends. You’ll need them even more in your Plebe summer and Plebe year! Good luck Candidate.
 
I'm throwing this out to the forum for DS, because you all are incredibly experienced and have been so helpful during this process.

So... DS has SAT 1480 (740/740) single sitting (and best superscores), and that is the high score on his portal. DS just got ACT from December - 34 Math, 35 English (both high scores), but not so well on Science (28 - highest score 29) and Reading (24 - highest score 27).

Send to USNA? Are only Math and English considered? Thoughts appreciated before we make that decision. Thanks for the help.
My DS's ACT and SAT scores were not as high as your DS's scores, but he showed improvement with each try. We submitted all scores, 4 ACT and 1 SAT, to show his commitment to improve them. His SAT happened to be his better test. Thankfully his Math and English scores were his best subjects. Never got his Reading score above a 26. In every other aspect, he was well-qualified and had a great overall application. He put his heart into his essay and had excellent references from his squad leader at Summer Seminar. His LOA was granted in October, and he accepted his offer of appointment last night! So - be happy with those great scores your son received and make sure all the other pieces are complete and speak to the overall person he is. I was a little hung up on my DS's test scores not being ultra-competitive, but it turns out the Naval Academy wants him for more than just his test scores! He is on Cloud 9. Best wishes to your DS.
 
Yup. USNA only use ACT Math and English. I would only send the ACT. USNA will internally equalize his ACT to SAT. His current ACT will = SAT V800 M760 = 1560. So don't send the SAT.

Good luck. He will get an Academic LOA. If everything else looks top notch. Meaning his Leadership Athletics ECs have to be all excellent. SAs don't weigh your GPA much. Class Rank is more important. But you should take the most advance math at your school like AP Cal and Physics. And hit Precalculus and AP Cal and Physics over 90. 90 = A at USNA.

You should never advise anyone “he or she will get an LOA”. So much subjectivity and unknowns for you to offer this expectation. My DS had similar stats, great leadership, GPA, rank, team capt, etc. Did not get LOA. Got wait listed for 2020. Did not receive appointment. 2021 college reapplicant and is now doing great on superintendents list academically after first semester at USNA.

Please don’t get applicants and/or their parents expectations too high based on test scores. Many more than you think carry the same weight.
 
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