ROTC Rules

[scutrules]

The 3 is the number blade they use... at least that's what it is according to all my guy friends.

 

[SCcandidate2015]

The barber will understand when you say it.

 

[Aglahad]

For the army it is no longer then 3 inches on the top and the sides can not be touching the ears. I've seen in the active army people push the limit.....just think neat and clean cut.

As a non-scholarship they MIGHT give you a uniform. In the past they issued everyone ACUs and APFUs, however in the last year or so that practice has gone away along with the budget. Just go with a open mind and don't tell everyone about how your JROTC won the state D&C competition. No one care and it makes you look pretentious bragging about something that is really just fluff.

 

[Jcleppe]

For the army it is no longer then 3 inches on the top and the sides can not be touching the ears. I've seen in the active army people push the limit.....just think neat and clean cut.

As a non-scholarship they MIGHT give you a uniform. In the past they issued everyone ACUs and APFUs, however in the last year or so that practice has gone away along with the budget. Just go with a open mind and don't tell everyone about how your JROTC won the state D&C competition. No one care and it makes you look pretentious bragging about something that is really just fluff.

sg1fan93,
Not quite sure what ROTC Battalion allows 3 inches on top just above the ears. I wouldn't count on that.

 

[Pima]

I would think 3 inches on top would cover your ears, plus if it didn't it would probably mean cutting your hair every other day to guarantee that it wouldn't.

 

[Aglahad]

sg1fan93,
Not quite sure what ROTC Battalion allows 3 inches on top just above the ears. I wouldn't count on that.

It's not the battalion rules, it's the army rules. It needs to look neat and tapered with the the sides not being allowed to touch the ears. As with a fade the 3 inches on TOP is allowed. I usually just get a 3 blade on top and 2 on the sides though. The gist as long as the sides are short, the hair on top can actually be pretty long.

See AR 670-1

 

[Jcleppe]

Again, that may be Army standards per AR 670-1 but I wouldn't count on that being the standard for ROTC.

 

[Aglahad]

Again, that may be Army standards per AR 670-1 but I wouldn't count on that being the standard for ROTC.

If anything the standards I have seen in many ROTC units are incredibly lax compared to AD. If anyone in the cadet CoC within battalion would give me crap I would just toss the AR at them. ROTC batts are apart of the army they can't have their own rules. Sure there is commander's discretion with some little things but in the end regs exists for a reason.

Is your battalion all high and tights or something...forcing high fades? I live in WA and have seen most of the batts, none of them from what I have seen deviate from the norm.

 

[MNDad2015]

If anything the standards I have seen in many ROTC units are incredibly lax compared to AD. If anyone in the cadet CoC within battalion would give me crap I would just toss the AR at them. ROTC batts are apart of the army they can't have their own rules. Sure there is commander's discretion with some little things but in the end regs exists for a reason.

Is your battalion all high and tights or something...forcing high fades? I live in WA and have seen most of the batts, none of them from what I have seen deviate from the norm.

If you took a hair from each new male MSI in DS's battalion (around 21), laid them end to end and measured it, no where close to 3" (maybe a tad over 1" at best). Everyone got the same haircut first day. Made it easy to pick them all out at the battalion picnic last weekend. Didn't see and shabby looking MSII's, III's and IV's either. So much for AR, for them it's a matter of pride and tradition.

 

[Aglahad]

If you took a hair from each new male MSI in DS's battalion (around 21), laid them end to end and measured it, no where close to 3" (maybe a tad over 1" at best). Everyone got the same haircut first day. Made it easy to pick them all out at the battalion picnic last weekend. Didn't see and shabby looking MSII's, III's and IV's either. So much for AR, for them it's a matter of pride and tradition.

Umm you can have pride and tradition with longer hair as long as it doesn't look like garbage. Do a lot of people show up the first day with shaved heads? Sure, they are nervous and don't want to look out of place. I went to LDAC with almost a bald head because it was easier to maintain for 30 days. However, as you will figure out soon the army isn't just shaved heads in a line. Trust me, I have seen tons of MS4s...cadre and AD officers with the 3 in tapered look and it works fine.

Shabby? Neat and tapered with a longer even top. How is that shabby?

 

[Pima]

I live in WA and have seen most of the batts, none of them from what I have seen deviate from the norm.

It all depends where you are at. DS is AFROTC and his entire det., actually look more like the Army AD than the AF AD where it is more common to follow that reg. of longer hair tapered. You would not be able to tell an A/AF/NROTC cadet in civies from one branch to another regarding length of hair/ Go VT and you will see the same regarding how short they keep it. It is just how it is here. It is also common for non-military to wear their hair short. That's the common college student look.

I am not saying that these are the norms, I am saying that we need to make sure that no new cadet enters with a philosophy of what is common in WA is common in TX or VA or anywhere else.

If anything the standards I have seen in many ROTC units are incredibly lax compared to AD.

Is that the image you want to portray to members here regarding AROTC? You realize you are saying that AROTC is not truly giving their cadets an inside look at the AD world because they are lax.

Again, for our DS they get inspected constantly. DH who served for 21 yrs AF AD, 7 yrs with constant interactions with the Army (jump ALO 82nd, PME Ft. Leavenworth, Pentagon JROC), they did not have inspections regarding uniform and hair cuts like they do in ROTC.

If anyone in the cadet CoC within battalion would give me crap I would just toss the AR at them.

Is that your attitude regarding the military? I have an issue, so I will fight you on it in an aggressive manner? SA (not Service Academy, but sit. awareness) will be a big issue regarding your success in the military.

Old joke. Major comes up to a Lt. and argues with them. The Major tired of arguing, places his hand on his shoulder, and asks the Lt. to do the same thing.

He than says 1,2,3 flip! Who wins he asks as they reveal their shoulder boards? Oh I do! RHIP!

Welcome to the military!

FWIW, I am not disagreeing that 3" can look neat and not shabby. It was the attitude that you appear to be portraying with your comments about throwing regs at a cadre.

Let me ask you, at your rank would you respect a new cadet whom threw the book at you to defend their position? Or would you read them the riot act for not respecting you as a leader in the CoC by throwing a book of regs at you? It is always amazing how perspectives change as people work up the ladder. What they thought when they were below that person as inane, seems to be perfectly suitable to do when they are in the same position later on.

 

[MNDad2015]

Thanks Pima, I was irked by the throw the book at them comment, too.

agalhad, no one in his battalion showed up the first day with a shaved head. That happended as part of the first day of AROTC orientation. Heck, last September, DS showed up for his PMS interview sporting a mohawk. Both he and ROO asked right away if that was a tradition for his HS football team; response to both, "Yes Sir!". Again, pride and tradition.

FYI, I wear my hair a lot shorter than what you describe, and trust me on a hot, muggy and windy day it can get real shabby looking in no time flat.

 

[USMCGrunt]

With all due respect (and I really mean that!) I hope this conversation is going to wind down. The original question on hair length was 2 weeks ago. I recognize that comments have been offered for the benefit of future readers but it has digressed into an argument. Regs are regs but most units hold incoming members to higher standards and will insist on shorter hairstyles (yes this comes from years of observation and experience). Without unit guidance ahead of time, show up looking sharp with a FRESH haircut and then adapt as necessary.

 

[Pima]

I am a woman, and I can tell you that my hair is short, 3" marker, tapered, and the top still has to be placed behind my ears. I just can't see 3" not hitting the top of an ear. Just me. (aglahad, not implying you are exaggerating or lieing, just saying for me, 3" would hit my ears).

Our DS who has a full ride AFROTC scholarship appeared at his college AFROTC det in the winter of his SR yr with his hair long and curly. He commented that this will be the last time for the next 20 yrs I can have it long, so I am going to keep it this way until I can't!

As I stated earlier, if you can afford to get cut often (every other week) than go for it. If you are a traditional college student where money is tight and it is between paying for a haircut or going to Chipotle's, you probably will go for the short hair cut to keep you in regs for a longer amount of time than the salon cut. Plus, one thing you will quickly learn if your college has a large det/BN/unit...somebody in the dorm will have shears. You will all show up at their room the night before inspection and have them do it for you.

I honestly don't care either way, it's not my hair

 

[Pima]

USMC,

My apologies to you and others for being a part of the digression regarding this thread.

Sometimes, a lot of times, I lose sight and get caught up in the minutia where it really doesn't mean squat.

 

[America's Finest]

ROTC batts are apart of the army they can't have their own rules.

As long as they don't cause a breach of Army regulations and only add to them, the detachment is free to make their own rules.

And +1 to Pima's response about throwing a book at your CoC. Things like that should be handled tactfully.

 

[Pima]

I have 3 fears now.

1. We will lose aglahad
~~~ I don't want us on piling on him and making him feel that he is swimming up stream with his philosophy regarding Haircuts.

USMC reminded me of that!

It is his opinion that in WA it is perfectly acceptable. We need to respect his perspective.

2. We have shown the worst of us as posters.

3. ROTC candidates walk away with the illusion that BN/CoC/Units are not training cadets to be AD officers and just let them coast without HQ guiding and directing.


AGLAHAD,
I hope that we don't lose you and you think we are against you point blank. I hope you will see that some see this life differently than you.

America's Finest,

I think that one thing many candidates get shocked by when they become cadets (SA or ROTC) is the idea of how they have yet to grasp being tactful in approaching a situation.

JMPO, that is really where the rubber meets the road regarding success in the military.

Look at the most successful officers in the military. It wasn't being the smartest or the best at what they did, but how they interacted with leadership. McCrystal, and Clark quickly comes to mind for the Army.

 

[Aglahad]

Alright I am going to close up my last comment addressing concerns with my posts.

1. I never said anything about cadre, I said cadet chain of command which can sometimes be overbearing and aggressive for no reason

2. Sure you can show up with a shaved head to make a professional impression. Go ahead. In fact my head is shaved 99% because I like the low maintenance. However, there are options in case you still want to look like a normal college student.

3. Throwing the regs at cadets isn't literal. Just informing then that you are following regulation according to AR-670. If the COMMANDER'S discretion is different then by all means do what he says. However, in MY experience I have never seen that happen

4 With male haircuts a fade tapers the sides (1 or 2 blade) to the top, so 3 inches can be done to look neat

5. His questions was regarding rules. So what? He shows up in regulation with a proper army haircut. What is the worst that can happen? Go cut it? Its not the end of the world. Cadre probably wouldn't bat an eye anyways and on a plus he could keep his hair longer

7. His question was vague I understand that. I have noticed AFROTC focuses on D&C and inspections a lot more than the army (where as army is more tactics/ operations planning). I gave my AROTC opinion


All my info is coming from 4 years of ROTC along with various schools like CTLT, LDAC etc. I am quite surprised that people were almost aggressive in their responses by questioning my military bearing (which I received an E in at LDAC). My goal is to ease new cadets burdens by reducing stress, working them up over a haircut detracts from your ROTC as well college experience. I don't know what ROTC experience you all personally have but I have given what I have seen and heard from cadets around the nation. Furthermore, if a new cadet can't come to a AROTC orientation without getting blasted for his haircut (even though its within regulations) what impression will have for the rest of the army's regulations and how they are followed?

Bottom Line: If a cadet is *****ed out at orientation for a haircut, that person is not a mentor but a tyrant. If you take ROTC that seriously as an MS4 ( I can see MS1/2s) then you need to take a long hard look at your life.



****I mentioned WA because one of the users is from WA.... traditionally most cadets I have encountered are from the South.
No, I will not leave I have a pretty thick skin lol. I am here to help cadets with questions about AROTC. Like I said, I might of jumped the gun since the question was vague about which branch of ROTC and that can factor into grooming standards.

 

[Pima]

We are getting too hot here, and time to get some perspective.

Fact is internet forums do not illustrate intonation, and the delay time between posts can raise the ante regarding POVs.

Aglahad,

Your recent post illustrates where you were coming from, but prior to that we were left with: "If anyone...I would throw the book at them". Now you are saying it wasn't literal it took hours for us to know it was not literal, so some of us jumped the gun

Just as in this post you stated ; I said cadet chain of command which can sometimes be overbearing and aggressive for no reason. Are you implying that the cadet chain of command is pushing it too far and not following what AD Army wants for new officers regarding how they are trained?

I am sure you don't mean to have it appear as negative as I am reading it due to lack of intonation or your ability to reply ASAP.


Right now it reads in a very negative light regarding your perception of AROTC.

I am also sure you didn't mean to Diss AFROTC with this statement:
His question was vague I understand that. I have noticed AFROTC focuses on D&C and inspections a lot more than the army (where as army is more tactics/ operations planning).

Did you mean to say to every poster that the AFROTC program is about inspections and not teaching tactics/operation planning? I highly doubt it, but that is how it came across.

Many, many of these posters are very new to forums and some take what is said as gospel regarding what other posters would do in those circumstances.

JUST SAYING!

OBTW, I constantly do the premise of please take my post and throw it in the circular filing cabinet, because I try to understand that forums can give the wrong perspective of what I intended.

 

[Aglahad]

In no way am I downgrading AFROTC, once again I am just going off of my experience as well as mutual interactions with AFROTC cadets. I am sure they have operations planning like us however I have noticed the inspections for them were almost weekly and very stringent. AROTC just places more emphasis on infantry tactics (for obvious reasons).The core of the ROTC curriculum surrounds the operations order and the SQD/PLT level tactics which follow. Now there are running jokes among the ROTC branches regarding what each branch does for training but I will abstain for fear that people will take it the wrong way.

My thesis for the young soon to be cadet (if he is AROTC) would be to show up within regulations and you can't be wrong. If they tell you different there you change your hair and drive on. However, they can never tell you that you were wrong.

My perception of ROTC is mostly positive: good and bad times like anything else in life.

However, I agree with USMC in that we have digressed from the topic. I am sure the OP has found his answer or is already past orientation of his respective ROTC branch.