ROTC Scholarship Dilemma

[Pima]

If you look at the military from the AD world, the scholarship route is very similar to their promotion boards. You need to understand that just like college admissions, this is always an in flux system due to the fact that the quality and amount of applicants will change year to year.

One year the candidate may qualify for a scholarship because they have less competition, the next yr they may not. Additionally the members on the boards change, mainly due to PCS's.

Boards are not like the SAT CR/M, they are like the WR, where it is more subjective. The only thing boards are sure about is they have limited funds, thus limited amount of scholarships.

I think they do as good of a job as they can by being as transparent as they can, but the fact is many of the sub-segments for the WCS are not white or black, X amount of points. Do you give more points to the FB player with 4 yrs that is on an okay team, or do you give more points to the LAX player who won district championship, but only played 2 seasons?

 

[aglages]

I think they do as good of a job as they can by being as transparent as they can..

C'mon. How can refusing to tell NROTC candidates when the scholarship boards are scheduled be considered doing "as good of a job as they can by being as transparent as they can..."? IMHO - they can do a better job of being transparent.

 

[Just_A_Mom]

I have to disagree with you on this though. If your experience is back in the days when the scholarship decision was made at local battalion, that was a very different ball game.

These days, the decision is a combination of the CC selection and local PMS "veto right" (for the lack of better words) with the scholarship winners in a position to choose one school among up to 5. In this process, PMSs are rightfully concerned about allocating precious commodity (billet at his/her battalion) only to have the candidates walk away and choose other schools/battalion. Granted, they can fill they spots later when the great scholarship transfer dance starts, but that's not a desirable scenario for them.

In 2006, candidates applied to Cadet command and listed their colleges. They interviewed at the ROTC battalion of their choice. If a PMS decided to offer you a scholarship - he could BUT it needed the blessing of Cadet Command. You could be offered more than one scholarship but could only accept one and you had a time limit - 45 days maybe to accept. If you accepted on early, you could turn it back for another offered later in the process.
It was just as confusing and full of angst as the process now.
My daughter was chased for an interview in late Sept and went in Oct. She was honest and forthright in the interview about her application for West Point. The Col wished her luck and told her he wanted to offer her a 4 year scholarship. It was verbal. In November after the Cadet Command board met - she was sent her written offer for her to accept.
My point is ---- not all PMSs' have the same attitude as the OP.

As far as transparency goes - if the board doesn't know when they will meet they can't tell you. It's not like you have a dozen Colonel's sitting around with nothing to do but review applications and talk about your children. Cadet Command has many responsibilities over and above awarding scholarships. In 2006 and 2007 they extended the application dates because of a lack of applicants. In 2008 - college funds dried up, the war in Iraq eased up. Now they are flooded with applicants.
Cadet Command has always encouraged applicants to apply early, they have always said they are looking for scholar/leader/athletes.
Maybe the next step is to invited parents to the Board meetings.

 

[goaliedad]

I think the military is very up front about what they want in successful ROTC candidates (affirmative action aside). All candidates "game" the system by presenting an application that honestly reflects themselves in their best light. Taking and retaking SAT/ACT test, pursuing varsity athletics and leadership roles, preparing and retaking (if necessary) PT tests.

Transparency of how the system works, and how the various ROTC programs assign/approve college selections wouldn't provide any more opportunities to "game" the system It would just make it clear to applicants how their choices would affect their chance of being approved for certain colleges. The military doesn't seem to mind whether candidates know and understand how their intended majors might affect the chances, why should the college selection process be secret or more prone to "gaming" the system?

BTW - how could knowing when the scholarship boards meet help to "game" the system?

I would suggest that if the scoring system for the application was public and candidates knew that having a 15 hr/wk job yielded X points and being on a travel sport team yielded Y points, some choices of how to spend one's afternoons and weekends would be made to maximize the points awarded.

As to the timing of the boards, actually goaliegirl intentionally delayed her application beyond the first board last year because she knew that she would not have adequate coach feedback to make a school choice had she been selected up front. Turned out not to be necessary, but knowing the board dates and not knowing the likelyhood of early selection did change her submission schedule.

 

[NC Mom]

I just wanted to give a little input into the "Tufts Symdrome" discussed here. My son was an AROTC recipient last year and it was the most nerve wracking time in my life!! He submitted his application in mid-October, along with applications to all 5 schools on his list. By the end of December he had acceptance letters to the first 4 schools, but #5 on his list wait-listed him.

In late January he received the AROTC scholarship with only ONE school on his list. Naturally, it was to his #5 choice where he had not been accepted yet. He did get a phone call from #3 on his list in mid-January asking him if their school was still #3 on his list, or if the ranking had changed for my son in any way. He told them they were still at #3, he had already been accepted to that school and he would love to go there, but his first 2 choices really hadn't changed.

It was an interesting time in our household to be sure. My son accepted the scholarship, with the hopes that he could transfer it to another school. Funny things happen to a kid through this process, though. In late March he did get in to #5 school where he had the scholarship. He decided at that point that maybe this was the way things were meant to be. He did not apply to transfer the scholarship after all, and he is thriving at the last school on his list. He told me that maybe all the stress and worry was all for nothing. This is the hand he was dealt and he is going to make the most of it. I could learn a lot from that boy.

I guess my point is--the "Tuft's Syndrome" is alive and well, but not in every case. My son honestly listed the schools in the order that he liked them. #5 really was his last choice all along, and if they had asked him he would have told them so. Clearly, they didn't pass on him because they thought he would go for something different, but if "Tuft's" were a factor they would have. What is really interesting...the #5 school is a highly competetive school with a very strong national reputation. #3 is a much lower profile school with much more lenient admission standards. To give some perspective--our expenses with the scholarship at #5 school are HIGHER than #3 would have been with no scholarship at all!!!

If you had asked me at this point last year if my son would be attending the school where he is now, I would have said NO WAY. Now, neither of us can imagine him anywhere else. He absolutely loves the school, the battalion, everything. Things really do work out the way they are supposed to, no matter how much worrying or gaming the system we try to do!!

 

[aglages]

.. if the board doesn't know when they will meet they can't tell you..

True. But we do agree that if they do know then there is really no reason NOT to tell you...right?

It's not like you have a dozen Colonel's sitting around with nothing to do but review applications and talk about your children.

That's not how the scholarship boards are scheduled? Wow! If they aren't just sitting around then I suppose it is necessary to actually schedule periodic meetings with these busy officers to review scholarship applications. You don't think that these dozen busy Colonels just wake up one morning and find emails informing them that the Army needs X amount of ROTC officers and they need to get together today and review 2000+ applications...do you? While I'm certain that the Army doesn't know exactly how many ROTC scholarship applications they are going to receive every year, I believe that they have some idea based on historic trends and plan board meetings accordingly. BTW - aren't the scheduled AROTC board meeting dates posted on this site somewhere? We were discussing the NROTC weren't we?

..talk about your children.

Our children? I thought these people were mature applicants that were generally in the top of their classes, athletes and scholars and involved members of the community that filled out lengthy applications including writing essays, taking PT tests and interviews. Good loyal and patriotic citizens that are volunteering to risk their lives for their country. Oh wait...now I see. You refer to them as "children" sarcastically because you don't think they deserve the transparency within the system to know when their applications are being reviewed and if their parents should question the "system" then we must be "helicoptering" and lobbying to be invited to the scholarship boards. More ridiculousness.

Maybe the next step is to invited parents to the Board meetings.

Inform candidates of when the scholarshp boards are scheduled to meet = "Maybe the next step is to invited parents to the Board meetings". Interesting ridiculous leap in logic.

 

[Just_A_Mom]

True. But we do agree that if they do know then there is really no reason NOT to tell you...right?

Nope. Why? When/If they award a scholarship they will let you know. It is only October.

That's not how the scholarship boards are scheduled? Wow! If they aren't just sitting around then I suppose it is necessary to actually schedule periodic meetings with these busy officers to review scholarship applications. You don't think that these dozen busy Colonels just wake up one morning and find emails informing them that the Army needs X amount of ROTC officers and they need to get together today and review 2000+ applications...do you?

That could be the case. Schedules change, people get transferred, stuff happens. Why don't you take a road trip out to Fort Knox or down to Pensacola and ask them what the problem is - instead of continually griping and berating people on this fourm.

While I'm certain that the Army doesn't know exactly how many ROTC scholarship applications they are going to receive every year, I believe that they have some idea based on historic trends and plan board meetings accordingly.

Not last year. As I explained just a couple of years ago they were extending the dates. They were even offering scholarships to freshmen if they walked in the door in August.

BTW - aren't the scheduled AROTC board meeting dates posted on this site somewhere? We were discussing the NROTC weren't we?

No idea. What difference does it make?

Our children?

Geesh. I thought you were treating them as your 'children'. I have not seen any posts by applicants that are overbearing and obnoxious.

 

[dunninla]

griping, berating

ouch........ I think we aglages clarified in another thread that he/she is alternately stomping his/her feet and smiling.

 

[aglages]

True. But we do agree that if they do know then there is really no reason NOT to tell you...right?

Why? When

Why not? Doesn't an applicant who applies to ROTC deserve to be told when their application will be reviewed if/when the ROTC program knows? I'm confused why you think this common courtesy that is extended by both the AFROTC and the AROTC should not apply to the NROTC.

Colonels just wake up one morning and find emails informing them that the Army needs X amount of ROTC officers and they need to get together today and review 2000+ applications...

That could be the case. Schedules change, people get transferred, stuff happens..

Right - more sarcasm undeserving of a response.

Why don't you take a road trip out to Fort Knox or down to Pensacola and ask them what the problem is - instead of continually griping and berating people on this fourm.

Ahhh...now this is the good stuff. How dare I question how decisions are made? Did you want to question my patriotism along with my parenting technique?

While I'm certain that the Army doesn't know exactly how many ROTC scholarship applications they are going to receive every year, I believe that they have some idea based on historic trends and plan board meetings accordingly.

Not last year. As I explained just a couple of years ago they were extending the dates. They were even offering scholarships to freshmen if they walked in the door in August.

They don't know exactly ANY year. That is why they continue to review all applicants until April and sometimes beyond. They can accept fewer or more applicants at the end of the review process based on their needs and the quantity of applicants/acceptances.

BTW - aren't the scheduled AROTC board meeting dates posted on this site somewhere? We were discussing the NROTC weren't we?

No idea. What difference does it make?

Although clearly nothing is difficult for you to argue, it is impossible to support your claim that ROTC programs cannot publish their scheduled scholarship board dates when both the Air Force and Army has miraculously found a method to do just that.

Geesh. I thought you were treating them as your 'children'. I have not seen any posts by applicants that are overbearing and obnoxious.

I'm sorry that you think my posts are both overbearing and obnoxious. Perhaps in the future I could PM you my intended posts for your review before posting them publicly? While I may never attain your blind acceptance of all that is military, hopefully I can learn to post with as much sensitivity as you have demonstrated.

 

[educateme]

those of us who would like to see more transparency are not requesting the Army to publish an interview scoring guide that will allow the candidates to game the system by working 10 hours in 3 years so that s/he can say, "yes, I worked" and have the box check marked, or anything like what goes on behind the closed the door, etc. We are not even asking them to publish the OML scoring guide. (even though it turns out that this is available online somewhere because some battalion put it on their web site, so it cannot be a top secret)

We are talking about basic things like, how the "rolling selection process" works, how many times they meet, and when the deadlines are for submission for each board, etc. There is NO reason why these should not be widely available. Granted, they may change the schedule. If so, all they have to do is to change the date on the web site.

When you go to the official AROTC application site, it's still saying, the application dead line is Jan XX 2010. Students who took it at a face value (and why wouldn't say?) had no idea that they already missed a couple of boards and in fact their top choice battalions may no longer have any spot left by the time these students happily submitted their application thinking they beat the deadline.

Meanwhile, when my son called the ROTC advisor, he told him all about the rolling selection process and why it is advantageous to apply early. So again, it's not a top secret, was NOT meant to be maintained a secret to discourage the students from gaming the system.

The fact that the Army did not publish such basic information on their web site is creating a very uneven playing field between the students who thought all they needed was on the official web site and those who started to poke around all over the place or those who are getting a lot support from their parents who have the mindset to know how to "work" the system.

I am thinking about my son's best friend, who is no less qualified than my son to be a terrific officer but completely missed the opportunity last year because he believed he was doing everything right by following what was on the official web site.

The current system is actually favoring students like my son, who is "in the know" so perhaps I shouldn't complain since it gave him a competitive edge.

 

[bruno]

ok folks - a brief word of caution here- this thread has strayed somewhat from a fact based informational thread to one that is more opinion based and maybe belong more in the off topic area.
If you are trying to help candidates navigate the vagueries of the ROTC Scholarship process, you can help do so by keeping this thread on topic and not be sniping at each other over the relative merits of the ROTC applications and web sites. If you want to express your opinion to the Army / Navy/AF etc on the relative merits of their web sites ; you probably would have more influence if you told them rather than debating the other members of the forum. If you have to express that opinion - put it in off topic or military news forums which aren't generally sought out as information sources by the intended audience of this forum (ie... this is a "how to" and "what and when to" type forum desgned to aid potential candidates- not an opinion forum)
- keep it civil and keep it productive. Thanks

 

[Lee2015]

My son and I will revisit his list (if it's not too late).

I think there is still time to make the switch. PMS from my daughter's #7 choice called last week and told her that he wants to offer her the AROTC scholarship but couldn't because that school was not one of the top 5. Well, daughter is so busy and hasn't had the time to login and change things around. Then the PMS emailed her this evening and said that he looked at her file and noticed that school was still at the bottom of the list. He said if she was still considering the school she should make the change before Sunday because the board will convene Monday--needed to be done before then.

@educateme, thanks for the wonderful synopsis.

 

[ulysses]

I think there is still time to make the switch.

Thanks for letting me know. My son was able to log into his application last night and revise the order of his schools. Much appreciated!

 

[havana brown]

I am talking about ranking of the schools, not the ROTC battalions. I have never seen ROTC battalion rankings. I heard that they used to rank battalions in the past, but they don't do that anymore.

My son's school, North Georgia College, has been ranked #1 battallion two years in a row.

 

[aglages]

My son's school, North Georgia College, has been ranked #1 battallion two years in a row.

That's great!! Where are the AROTC Battalion rankings posted?