ROTC Scholarship Hopeful with questions.

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Lyzenga101, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. Lyzenga101

    Lyzenga101 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2018
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    1
    I am currently a high school senior applying for the AFROTC scholarship for a tech major (either EE/CS or Mechanical).

    My Stats are as follows:
    1430 SAT with 740 Math 690 English/Reading (taking again), subject tests are pending
    3.94 UW, 4.75 W GPA
    Class Rank: 16 of 540ish
    For academic class rank (my school marks GPA down for a sport): 5 of 540ish
    5 on 2 APs, 4 on 3 APs
    Taking 5 APs this year

    Extracurriculars:
    Varsity XC and track captain and on both
    Marching Band Section Leader, Drum Major senior year
    Member of NHS
    Activities organizer for Key Club
    Model UN head delegate
    Engineering mentorship program
    Physics Club President

    Questions:

    I’m taking PFA in coming months, I’m likely to max the run and sit-ups, but will only likely hit 45-50 on pushups. Will this reflect poorly?

    Do the application readers look at senior year at all? Most of my leadership positions are for senior year.

    What scholarship am I most likely to get (type 1 2 or 7)?

    Thank you!
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  2. CitadelN88

    CitadelN88 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2018
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    159
    why will you only get 45 - 50 on pushups if it's coming in a few months? Are you going to let a few pushups stand between you and what $300k in college money?

    I'm willing to bet there is a guy out there with similar stats and abilities to yours knocking out push-ups every day to get that money
     
  3. FutureSoldier44

    FutureSoldier44 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    20
    Yeah Citadel is right, if you are saying that you will only get 50 pushups and you still have a few months, be knocking out pushups everyday and get training them. You can't get better if you don't do them. But other than that, I would say that your application looks good, but don't settle for average on anything; physical fitness, grades, volunteer service or motivation. Always keep grinding with that mental toughness and you'll do great!!!
     
    CitadelN88 likes this.
  4. Dckc88

    Dckc88 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    820
    Likes Received:
    668
    You cannot get one unless you apply. Don’t sweat the small things. I agree with above, control what you can control. But if it ends up at 45-50, then that one piece is not going to be the only thing that would stop you. It all depends how you compare to everyone else and each person will have their own strengths and areas of opportunities. Do you best and go for it!

    Are you 100% set on Air Force? If you would be open to Army or Navy, then try applying there as well. You don’t have to take them. FYI - I gave the same advice to my daughter a few years ago and she didn’t take it. She said she was 100% sure she wanted Army. It has worked out for her, but I am always in the camp of keep your options open, a lot can change in a year.
     
    CitadelN88 and AROTC-dad like this.
  5. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    13,482
    Likes Received:
    1,627
    1. Your SAT is strong as long as you are saying it is best sitting, not super score.
    ~ Unlike AROTC and NROTC, AFROTC does not super score.
    2. Anything you do during your senior year is not included in the package.
    ~ Only exception is updating a new ACT/SAT
    3. Everyone is right, get those push ups up, but make sure it is the correct form. Do the PFA in order.
    ~ If offered a scholarship, you cannot contract until you pass the PFA. They will make sure the form is correct when counting. For example, you get up to 65 for your PFA, and the administrator just counts, but does not look at the form. You get to AFROTC and during the push ups your form is wrong, so the count goes 1, 1, 1, 2,2,3 You in essence did 6 push ups, but only 3 counted. You wasted time and energy because your form was incorrect.
    ~~ PFA is a pass or fail aspect. Fail one part and you failed the entire thing. That means you would not be deemed physically qualified.

    Nobody knows your chances because nobody knows the size of the pool or the pot of gold for scholarships this year. Do you have a strong application? Yes, but remember the breakdown of scholarships. Type 1 is 5% of all scholarships. Type 2 is 15%. Type 7 is the remaining. @80-85% go to STEM. I would think you will get one. I am just not want to give odds or guesses on which scholarship bc I do not sit on the boards.

    FWIW, a few things to remember.
    1. If you have any medical issues passed the age of 12, got those records in order. Waivers can take a few weeks or a few months.
    2. AFROTC scholarships are we call 2+2.
    ~ That means if you are not selected for SFT as a sophomore HQ AFROTC has a right to dis-enroll you and thus, you lose the scholarship. They may say on the scholarship paperwork you must maintain a 2.5 cgpa to retain the scholarship, however, in reality for Tech majors to get selected for SFT the avg cgpa is 3.0/3.1 What will you do if you lose that scholarship? Can you afford to stay at your college?
    3. If you want to change from Tech to non-tech you need HQ approval. That is rare. See above regarding % that they want Tech.
    4. Many think that going Tech is the best path to get a UPT slot. This is simply not true. Sometimes it can actually hurt them. For example, if you go EE and in 4 yrs from now they deem EE as critical demand career field, they will take only a few (top few) for rated bc they need them to be engineers. Just saying, go with a degree you truly want in life, not bc you think it can give you an edge, be it scholarship or rated.

    Hope that helps.
     
    migs likes this.
  6. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    13,482
    Likes Received:
    1,627
    I am not opposed to your way of thought, but I too had a child that was AF or nothing.

    The thing is each branch is unique in their mission. If the candidate is looking to do Intel, than I am with you. If the candidate is looking to fly fix wing, than I would say AFROTC and NROTC. If the candidate wants rotor, than AROTC and NROTC. RPAs AFROTC. Cyber all of them.

    Just saying they are 18 and really don't know their true career path, but I hope they do have plan A, B, and C in their mind. DS wanted fixed wing, and never wanted to be on a ship as his plan A. That left AF only. Plan B was Intel, AF has that. Plan C was to go for JAG, AF has that too. Thus, for him it was AF.
    ~ No offense to any other branch, but I do get why some will not apply to all ROTC scholarships.

    My concern is that kids look at the scholarship as a way to afford their dream college without understanding the true cost when they commission. As an 18 yo with that scholarship in hand to pay for your dream school with the major you want, life is great. However, at 22 you commission and they OWN you for at least 4 yrs. You may want XYZ career field, but the military may say you will go ABC career field. You may want to be stationed in Germany, but they say you are going to TX.
    ~ College is 4 yrs, and basically 20 hrs a week in a classroom for 36 weeks a yr. You get to chose where you go for those 4 yrs. The military once commissioned and AD, is 40 hrs+ a week, 52 weeks a yr for 4 yrs to wherever they decide.
     
    Dckc88 likes this.
  7. Humey

    Humey Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Messages:
    932
    Likes Received:
    610
    4. Many think that going Tech is the best path to get a UPT slot. This is simply not true. Sometimes it can actually hurt them. For example, if you go EE and in 4 yrs from now they deem EE as critical demand career field, they will take only a few (top few) for rated bc they need them to be engineers. Just saying, go with a degree you truly want in life, not bc you think it can give you an edge, be it scholarship or rated.

    What Pima said is correct. When the board reviews your record for a UPT (Pilot spot), they dont know what your major is So your major can be anywhere from basket weaving to nuclear science. Having said that, the AF has something called Field Training which occurs the summer prior to Junior year. You must be invited to attend and it is the only way to continue to third year of AF Rotc. My son graduated and commissioned in 2018. 100% of those in his Junior class were invited to Field Training. The following year it was also 100% and from what I hear that was pretty standard for most the country. However this summer, they were talking about have the rate fall to 70-80%. I have no idea what the rate wound up being. However, what they were saying was those with STEM majors were going to have an advantage over those who werent majoring in a STEM program. What that exactly means, I dont know, but i would guess if you have 2.8 gpa, the person majoring in aeronautical engineering with that gpa will have an advantage over the person who majors in Dance Theory with a 2.8. The percentage of people who get invited seems to flucuate during the year so the STEM degree will give you an advantage. Having said that, you should study something you enjoy. Not only will you wind up with a better GPA but it will provide you with the skills you will need later in life.
     
  8. Dckc88

    Dckc88 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    820
    Likes Received:
    668

    Yep totally agree. I have no idea what the OP wants, or why AFROTC is on their radar. Good news is anyone can join ROTC without a scholarship if they are not sure. And even with a scholarship there is time to walk away if it is not what they want. And applying for a scholarship in any branch can be a learning experience, and help the journey overall. No judgement if kids don’t apply to more than one, and no judgement if they apply to all, just a suggestion in case it was not thought about. Hey, my daughter thought 1000% she wanted to be an Army nurse, now she is a communications major and wants MI or FA.
     
    AROTC-dad likes this.
  9. Lyzenga101

    Lyzenga101 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2018
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'm not completely set on Air Force and will apply to AROTC and NROTC. Thanks for your advice!
     
  10. Lyzenga101

    Lyzenga101 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2018
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thanks for your reply.

    I really do want to join the armed forces and it's not just a way for me to go to a school of my choice for free. My brother is going through the ROTC and I have been talking to him quite a bit about it and it really sounds like something that I really want to be a part of -- I really do want to be an officer serving my country.
     
  11. Lyzenga101

    Lyzenga101 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2018
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thank you for your response.

    I would be going into a tech major either way so I am not motivated by what they want or what I think they might want. And in regards to push-ups, I have been training with my brother, who is also in ROTC and the leader of PT for his det., and he says I have great form. I just really need to push myself for the next couple months and work at push-ups.
     
    Dckc88 likes this.
  12. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    10,547
    Likes Received:
    4,080
    Drop and give me 20. Nearly anytime and any place. Frequently.
     
  13. Dckc88

    Dckc88 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2015
    Messages:
    820
    Likes Received:
    668
    A couple more things, is your brother AF, Army, Navy ROTC? Also, while you are going through the process of the applications, I suggest you set up visits at local colleges, (if your college choices are too far away to travel to, if you can visit your college choices, that is best). Visit each ROTC program, ask lots of questions. And like Pima suggested, do think about what it is you want to do, does not have to be exact, but in large terms. That might make your decision a little easier. Good luck to you and keep us posted.
     
  14. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    13,482
    Likes Received:
    1,627
    Just some clarification.
    1. UPT
    ~ Unless something changed last yr., they do know your major. However, it is broken down to Tech or Non-tech. Tech gets an edge from a gpa aspect because they expect that their classes are harder than basket weaving. Hence, this is why you will see for UPT and SFT a lower cgpa for Tech majors compared to non-tech. Tech avg @ 3.0, non-tech closer to 3.4 From there they look at the major if it is on the critical list.
    ~~ Critical manning has impacted tech majors. I have seen yrs where they will take a limited percentage of engineers. One yr it might be EE and the next it could be CE. The point is when these cadets were candidates for a scholarship as a HS senior did not know in 4 yrs from now when they are up for the rated board that their major would be considered critical and due to that fact their chances can change. It happens, so beware and make sure you are willing to be an engineer too. I think it was only 3 or 4 yrs ago that the AF only took @25% or less of all EE candidates for UPT, because ADAF said EE was considered critical. I have also seen here CEs get hit that way too.
    2. SFT board meets SOPHOMORE yr (AS200/250).
    ~ The major is not part of the selection. Again Tech gets an edge. For SFT it is broken down into 4 groups. Tech/rated, non-tech/rated, tech/non-rated, non-tech/non-rated.
    ~~ Yes, it has been 100% for many years now, but as you can see I have been here long enough to see the pendulum swing. DS's class had 55%, following yr, 90%. Yr after that 93%, yr after that 58% with a 17% selection rate for non-tech/non-rated.
    ~~~ The thing to remember is that ADAF does a 5 yr personnel plan. This is tied to ratios. Enlisted to officers. Company grade compared to Field compared to Flag. IF they are seeing too many O1s coming down the pipeline in 2 yrs, than they will slow down that spigot USAFA is in that pipeline, but unlike AFROTC there is no break point like SFT, it is rare for them to DOR as a C2C (jr), thus, come Feb of your AS200 yr (soph) when the SFT boards meet, ADAF has a pretty strong number of how many will commission from USAFA. They take that number they need to commission your yr group, minus USAFA, leaving them with a number they need. HOWEVER, there is a third prong to the manpower equation...OCS/OTS. They will leave some room for that commissioning source too.
    ~~~~ OBTW the one thing that is truly masked for SFT selection is if the cadet is on scholarship or not. The board does not have a clue.

    Not trying to be Debbie Downer. My goal is the more informed you are regarding this path, the better you will feel regarding your decision.
    ~ I bleed AF Blue, but I would also say that unless your ultimate goal is to fly fixed wing, look at AROTC and NROTC too because they do not have that make or break SFT option. I say fixed because that is the AF. Look at how many F35s the AF is getting compared to the Navy. Look at their airframe options for fixed. Now, if you said RW, I would say go NROTC or AROTC.