ROTC, which branch?

[Jcarrick1]

Hello,
I have some questions about the different branches and what exactly comes with going through ROTC. So I guess I’ll start by explaining where I am in the process and exactly what questions I have. So I am currently a senior in high school and I’ve always wanted to join the military specifically to become a SEAL. I received a baseball scholarship from Norwich Univeristy and I accepted it. I am joining the corps or cadets. I am just undecided what branch. While visiting the campus I talked to a couple different NROTC officers and they showed me the numbers and explained just how few cadets get picked for BUD/S. Although I am 100% willing to do whatever it takes to be one of those few cadets picked for BUD/S, I also want to be realistic and explore all of my options. I don’t want to make the mistake of being over ambitious, not getting selected for BUD/S, and then being stuck with a job that I don’t want. I am also very interested AROTC and the Ranger company program that Norwich offers. I really don’t know much about AROTC at all. Just how competitive is the ranger program compared to SEALS? If I did decide to go through NROTC and I wasn’t selected for BUD/S what options would I have? If I was selected for BUD/S but then I dropped for some reason what would my options be? Also I heard a lot of people on campus talking about getting “contracted”. I know about the specific ROTC scholarships but after googling for hours I haven’t been able to find anything about getting “contracted”, does anyone know what that entails? I would also be open to exploring the options that AFROTC offers, I just have very little information on the special forces programs that they offer.

 

[Tbpxece]

Hello,
I would also be open to exploring the options that AFROTC offers, I just have very little information on the special forces programs that they offer.

Combat Rescue Office (CRO), Air Liaison Officer (ALO), Special Tactics Officer (STO) are the three main "special forces" officer career fields open in the AF.

The Air Force has the bulk of their SOF personnel in the enlisted corps (pararescumen, combat controllers, tactical air control party, SERE specialists, special operations weathermen).

For some select AFSC's, there is the possibility to become sort-of special forces by becoming attached to a JSOC unit, but this is rare and is solely in a support role.

A few other career fields/job functions, like EOD, Combat Comm, and Ravens, are sometimes mistakenly viewed as SOF, but they are closer to elite or speciality AFSC's than true SOF.

 

[kinnem]

As you point out the chances of being selected for BUD/S through NROTC are low. I believe the odds are better through USNA. That being said I know of a few NROTC midshipmen who were selected for BUD/S. They all worked extremely hard and were doing extra SEAL like PT every Friday afternoon and evening when all the other kids were at happy hour. It's that kind of difficult.

On either path, as an officer, you are not likely to be kicking in doors. If that's what you want to do, then enlist.

If you don't get selected for BUD/S you'll get another job in the Navy. If you don't make it through BUD/S you get another job in the Navy. I believe Officers only get one shot at BUD/S.

I would add that the order of what you want to do should be
1. Be in the military
2. Be an officer
3. Have a desired MOS, keeping in mind you are not likely to get your first choice.
So, are you willing to serve in any branch if you don't get selected for Special Forces? If so, great. If not, then perhaps you should rethink your plan.

 

[Tbpxece]

As you point out the chances of being selected for BUD/S through NROTC are low. I believe the odds are better through USNA. That being said I know of a few NROTC midshipmen who were selected for BUD/S. They all worked extremely hard and were doing extra SEAL like PT every Friday afternoon and evening when all the other kids were at happy hour. It's that kind of difficult.

On either path, as an officer, you are not likely to be kicking in doors. If that's what you want to do, then enlist.

If you don't get selected for BUD/S you'll get another job in the Navy. If you don't make it through BUD/S you get another job in the Navy. I believe Officers only get one shot at BUD/S.

I would add that the order of what you want to do should be
1. Be in the military
2. Be an officer
3. Have a desired MOS, keeping in mind you are not likely to get your first choice.
So, are you willing to serve in any branch if you don't get selected for Special Forces? If so, great. If not, then perhaps you should rethink your plan.

All of the above applies to the AF as well. Swap out MOS for AFSC, BUD/S with the particular Indoc for each ST/SOF school, and there you go. Enlisted is the way to go for SOF in the AF. You can always commission into ALO/CRO/STO later, and it is much easier to get selected if you are already a PJ/SERE/TACP/CCT. Tryouts for SOF are at BMT.

 

[KuzNROTC]

I go to Norwich and can give you a little more insight on your pursuit to being a Navy SEAL.

It is competitive, but if you want it bad enough, it is possible. In fact, we have a senior this year that got a SEAL slot, and will go to BUD/s once he commissions. He is the CO for Golden Anchor Society (another training program here at Norwich, much like Ranger Company). Last years CO for Golden Anchor is at BUD/s right now and in fact is about to graduate (he enlisted though).

You spoke of Ranger Company. Ranger Company is not just for AROTC cadets. Ranger Challenge is the program that is specific for AROTC cadets. Ranger Company is open to NROTC, AFROTC, as well as people non-pursuing a commission. In fact the CO of two years ago for Ranger Company graduated BUD/s last year and is a Navy SEAL (enlisted).

So the trend here is that these programs have produced some pretty "high speed" people. Many students in these programs go on to be Rangers in the Army, or Spec Ops Air Force, Marine RECON, and even Coast Guard rescuers.

One thing I do want to point out though, is that it is MUCH easier to go enlisted special forces in any branch than going officer. Out of those three examples I provided, only one is going officer route, and he isn't even at BUD/s yet.

With enlisted, you just have to show A Navy recruiter your college diploma, your citizenship docs, a clean record, and your PST scores.

For NROTC, you have to have great grades, great PT, great battalion aptitude, and more than likely be in a hard major (the senior who is going to BUD/s is a physics major), since most contracts go to tier 1 and 2.

The dilemma I would say for you that you NEED to answer.

Is it more important to be a SEAL or a Navy Officer?

Going to Norwich will help prepare you for the physical and mental training it takes to go Spec Ops/warfare

I can attest, as I have bee through one of Norwich's training programs (can't say specifically for security purposes).

I never would have thought I could do 500 consecutive burpees, have a 50 lb ruck sack and run to the top of a mountain, run 4 flights of stairs up and down 100 times, or complete 200 pullups in two hours.

But you can.. If you want it enough.

 

[Jcarrick1]

I go to Norwich and can give you a little more insight on your pursuit to being a Navy SEAL.

It is competitive, but if you want it bad enough, it is possible. In fact, we have a senior this year that got a SEAL slot, and will go to BUD/s once he commissions. He is the CO for Golden Anchor Society (another training program here at Norwich, much like Ranger Company). Last years CO for Golden Anchor is at BUD/s right now and in fact is about to graduate (he enlisted though).

You spoke of Ranger Company. Ranger Company is not just for AROTC cadets. Ranger Challenge is the program that is specific for AROTC cadets. Ranger Company is open to NROTC, AFROTC, as well as people non-pursuing a commission. In fact the CO of two years ago for Ranger Company graduated BUD/s last year and is a Navy SEAL (enlisted).

So the trend here is that these programs have produced some pretty "high speed" people. Many students in these programs go on to be Rangers in the Army, or Spec Ops Air Force, Marine RECON, and even Coast Guard rescuers.

One thing I do want to point out though, is that it is MUCH easier to go enlisted special forces in any branch than going officer. Out of those three examples I provided, only one is going officer route, and he isn't even at BUD/s yet.

With enlisted, you just have to show A Navy recruiter your college diploma, your citizenship docs, a clean record, and your PST scores.

For NROTC, you have to have great grades, great PT, great battalion aptitude, and more than likely be in a hard major (the senior who is going to BUD/s is a physics major), since most contracts go to tier 1 and 2.

The dilemma I would say for you that you NEED to answer.

Is it more important to be a SEAL or a Navy Officer?

Going to Norwich will help prepare you for the physical and mental training it takes to go Spec Ops/warfare

I can attest, as I have bee through one of Norwich's training programs (can't say specifically for security purposes).

I never would have thought I could do 500 consecutive burpees, have a 50 lb ruck sack and run to the top of a mountain, run 4 flights of stairs up and down 100 times, or complete 200 pullups in two hours.

But you can.. If you want it enough.

How competitive is it to get a contract? I chose a criminal justice major.
So if I don’t a slot in BUD/S through NROTC I would still have the option going through BUD/S enlisted?

 

[kinnem]

Well, Navy is primarily looking for STEM majors. About 85% of HSSP scholarships go to STEM majors. So your chances aren't nil but Criminal Justice is not the best major when competing for a contract, but some folks achieve that goal. I imagine when simply competing for a contract, with no scholarship involved, your odds might increase, but that's just a guess on my part. Assuming you don't commission, and if you contract you WILL commission, then you can still enlist and get into BUD/S through that route.

 

[Humey]

Not trying to be negatives but there are many cases where even if you try your best, sometimes your best isnt good enough. My point being that you need a backup plan and that it should work with branch you want

 

[Jcarrick1]

Not trying to be negatives but there are many cases where even if you try your best, sometimes your best isnt good enough. My point being that you need a backup plan and that it should work with branch you want

I understand that, that’s why I’m trying to explore the options I have in every branch. I know I shouldn’t go looking a combat job, but realistically I would want one. What are my chances of getting a combat job in the Navy if I don’t take the SEAL route? If I went AROTC what would my chances be at getting a combat job if it’s not Rangers or SF?

 

[kinnem]

If you go NROTC Marine Option there is a fair chance to be an Infantry Officer, artillery, armor, or a pilot. Plenty of Marine Options major in Criminasl Justice as USMC doesn't care what your major it. Navy Option has Surface Warfare, Subs, or Pilot available. Your options in Army are similar to Marine Option without the potential sea time. Each branch has a web site where you can peruse the job options for Officers. Suggest you take a more detailed look there.

 

[KuzNROTC]

I go to Norwich and can give you a little more insight on your pursuit to being a Navy SEAL.

It is competitive, but if you want it bad enough, it is possible. In fact, we have a senior this year that got a SEAL slot, and will go to BUD/s once he commissions. He is the CO for Golden Anchor Society (another training program here at Norwich, much like Ranger Company). Last years CO for Golden Anchor is at BUD/s right now and in fact is about to graduate (he enlisted though).

You spoke of Ranger Company. Ranger Company is not just for AROTC cadets. Ranger Challenge is the program that is specific for AROTC cadets. Ranger Company is open to NROTC, AFROTC, as well as people non-pursuing a commission. In fact the CO of two years ago for Ranger Company graduated BUD/s last year and is a Navy SEAL (enlisted).

So the trend here is that these programs have produced some pretty "high speed" people. Many students in these programs go on to be Rangers in the Army, or Spec Ops Air Force, Marine RECON, and even Coast Guard rescuers.

One thing I do want to point out though, is that it is MUCH easier to go enlisted special forces in any branch than going officer. Out of those three examples I provided, only one is going officer route, and he isn't even at BUD/s yet.

With enlisted, you just have to show A Navy recruiter your college diploma, your citizenship docs, a clean record, and your PST scores.

For NROTC, you have to have great grades, great PT, great battalion aptitude, and more than likely be in a hard major (the senior who is going to BUD/s is a physics major), since most contracts go to tier 1 and 2.

The dilemma I would say for you that you NEED to answer.

Is it more important to be a SEAL or a Navy Officer?

Going to Norwich will help prepare you for the physical and mental training it takes to go Spec Ops/warfare

I can attest, as I have bee through one of Norwich's training programs (can't say specifically for security purposes).

I never would have thought I could do 500 consecutive burpees, have a 50 lb ruck sack and run to the top of a mountain, run 4 flights of stairs up and down 100 times, or complete 200 pullups in two hours.

But you can.. If you want it enough.

How competitive is it to get a contract? I chose a criminal justice major.
So if I don’t a slot in BUD/S through NROTC I would still have the option going through BUD/S enlisted?

It is very much possible to get a contract with CJ. We have plenty of people in the battalion that get Advanced Standing with tier 3 majors. You just have to make sure you keep a high GPA to get a contract with a tier 3 major.

If you solely want a combat job, Army or Marine is probably your best bet for something with higher chances of getting.

For a warning though, as an officer no matter what job, your first and foremost responsibility is to manage your soldiers/marines/sailors/airmen. If you want to kick down doors for a living, enlisted is probably the way to go. Some SEAL officers spoke with our unit, and they went and held an office job at the pentagon for some time. Even enlisted, as you climb the ranks, your responsibility increases with the people you lead and work with.

I would go and look at other resources to see what combat jobs entail with every branch enlisted and officer wise. There's usually pipeline descriptions, and everyone else's experience being a SEAL, Army infantry, MARSOC, and so on.

 

[Tex232]

SEALS are overrated - Rangers lead the way.

 

[Humey]

Not trying to be negatives but there are many cases where even if you try your best, sometimes your best isnt good enough. My point being that you need a backup plan and that it should work with branch you want

I understand that, that’s why I’m trying to explore the options I have in every branch. I know I shouldn’t go looking a combat job, but realistically I would want one. What are my chances of getting a combat job in the Navy if I don’t take the SEAL route? If I went AROTC what would my chances be at getting a combat job if it’s not Rangers or SF?

I would think the Army or Marines would be the best way to go if you want infantry . You dont have to be in special forces to kick doors down

 

[Jcleppe]

If I went AROTC what would my chances be at getting a combat job if it’s not Rangers or SF?

If you go AROTC and commission there are branches that would meet the "Combat job" roll, Infantry, Armor, Field Artillery, even Aviation. One thing to remember about the AROTC and even West Point, you have zero chance of commissioning into either the Ranger Battalion or any of the SOF Branches (SF, Civil Affairs, PsyOps) You can only apply for selection to one of these when you are a 1LT Promotable, about 3 years after you commission. On the plus side you do not need to be branched in any specific branch to apply for SOF, you can apply from any branch in the Army.

 

[Jcarrick1]

If I went AROTC what would my chances be at getting a combat job if it’s not Rangers or SF?

If you go AROTC and commission there are branches that would meet the "Combat job" roll, Infantry, Armor, Field Artillery, even Aviation. One thing to remember about the AROTC and even West Point, you have zero chance of commissioning into either the Ranger Battalion or any of the SOF Branches (SF, Civil Affairs, PsyOps) You can only apply for selection to one of these when you are a 1LT Promotable, about 3 years after you commission. On the plus side you do not need to be branched in any specific branch to apply for SOF, you can apply from any branch in the Army.

I didn’t know that. So the Marines and the Army both select SOF candidates from only those who have been in for at least 3 years? So out of the Marines, Army, and Navy the Navy is the only branch that would send a newly commissioned officer to SOF training, and that’s only if they get a BUD/S slot?

 

[kinnem]

Sure seems that way. I wouldn't base my decision as to which service on that, but to the best of my knowledge that's the case. Nothing wrong with getting a little seasoning before SOF, especially if it's the branch that attracts you.

EDIT: Everyone joins ROTC all hyped up about SOF, or Infantry, or whatever it is. As they learn more many minds change... even minds who were absolutely dead set on SOF when they enrolled. Some find out just how tough it is. Some suffer minor injuries that make them think twice about the strains on the body of these pursuits and look into other jobs. It's good to have goals, just don't get obsessive about them. Be sure you're willing to do other jobs in that service because a zillion things can happen that are out of your control.

EDIT 2: Oh yeah, and before you can get a BUD/S slot you first have to get a pre-BUD/S slot for your 1st class cruise and perform among the top 20 there.

 

[Dckc88]

Since a non technical major is preferred, I would think Navy would be the most difficult from an ROTC perspective and also the least combat options. Both AROTC and Navy Marine Option don’t care what your major is and also have more combat options.

I would think pick the branch that seems to fit overall what you are looking for. If you want to be boots on the ground and have a junior in combat, then it seems clear who has more personnel in that area. Even though with Navy you point out they take “newbies” for special forces, realize there are very few opportunities for that. While special forces for officers in Army and Marines tend to take 3 years, there are many more opportunities and you can still be in a combat role during those three years.

Also know things change. My daughter’s former PMS started NROTC as a biology major with one goal, graduated in AROTC with an engineering degree with a totally different focus and is retiring within the year after a full career, so thinking it all worked out for him. My daughter wanted to be an Army nurse with no reservations, and is now a junior pursuing a communications degree considering MI or one of the combat branches. Pick the service that seems to be the best fit and have the most oppirtunties for your interest, because the needs of that service will be a higher priority than your desire of a certain job. My daughter interviewed a retired Colonnel with 30 years in the Army and when my daughter asked her if she would have done anything differently she said while she might have had the same choice, she would have researched each service more of what their focus was prior to just picking one when starting college. So take the time to research all the possibilities then you can pick the one that seems to fit you best, Good luck and keep us posted.