SAT Scores... What's the reality here?

One thing you will notice is that as long as you specify to have your results forwarded, they will update on your application as the highest number (as Christcorp said). DS found that he has a low writing score on his first ACT (it was marked with a * on his application). When he later took it, he scored much better and the higher score showed up without the *. We also found that even though they say they will take scores up to January, they will keep taking scores even later. DS took the ACT again in February and his scores showed up in early March.
 
FutCandMom said:
March SAT results are in... not what DS was expecting... His high scores between Jan and March are Reading 570 Math 610 Writing 570. He was enrolled in one of the top SAT Prep classes in our area... He doesn't know what happened.
DS has Plan B ROTC colleges, but is determined to keep on fighting for Service Academy appointment. GPA 3.75. Resume looks incredible in the EC and Leadership areas.... He was just counting on these SAT scores to go up. Advice? Take more of the SATs and forego the subject test opportunities? How many times becomes TOO much with a red flag going up?
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DD had the same problem. My advise is to take the ACT as well. Multiple people have told DD that some people just do better on one exam or the other. Unfortunately DD ran out of time because we didn't know we could take the ACT. Also FYI spent a lot of money (you have to buy the whole package) on sending DD to Sylvan and I am sure that it differs by location but it was a total waste of money and time. DD actually did better on her own with the Kaplan book. They really didn't focus on what she needed. I wish I would have known about this forum a lot earlier. We have been told on multiple occasions to be competitive you need a min of 600 on Math and Verbal but I am sure it varies by the year depending on how everybody scores. Hope it helps. This forum is awesome, full of helpful information. Good luck.
 
Here is the class profile of the class of 2014. (Last year's entering class; this year's freshman)

http://paulryan.house.gov/UploadedFiles/USAFA_2014.pdf

SAT average math is: 666 verbal is: 640. ACT is 29.7 english; 30.3 math; 30.3 reading; 29.7 science. Bottom line is that you really need to push past that to be competitive. And with 12,000 applicants per year, the scores don't really change.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the Academy takes your highest scores from each section from all of the SAT/ACTs you have taken and uses those sections which are highest, even if they are from different tests...something to keep in mind. So if you took the ACT twice and test 1 was a 36 math and 29 Science, then test 2 was a 34 math and 32 science, your scores on your USAFA portal would show 36 math and 32 science...

Instead of asking if your scores are "good enough," just apply anyway (you can't get in without applying) and keep retaking those tests. Never think that what you have is "good enough." You could be out of the running by being just a few points lower than what you needed on your test to boost your WCS.

Keep taking the tests, your scores should go up after each try, since you will gain more and more experience each time...
 
Strike Eagle said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the Academy takes your highest scores from each section from all of the SAT/ACTs you have taken and uses those sections which are highest, even if they are from different tests...something to keep in mind. So if you took the ACT twice and test 1 was a 36 math and 29 Science, then test 2 was a 34 math and 32 science, your scores on your USAFA portal would show 36 math and 32 science...

Instead of asking if your scores are "good enough," just apply anyway (you can't get in without applying) and keep retaking those tests. Never think that what you have is "good enough." You could be out of the running by being just a few points lower than what you needed on your test to boost your WCS.

Keep taking the tests, your scores should go up after each try, since you will gain more and more experience each time...
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It's called "Super Scoring" and YES, USAFA does precisely that!

Which is why I tell my candidates: "If you can afford to do it, plan on a lot of Saturday's being spent taking EVERY SAT AND ACT OFFERED!"

In 17 years as a "primary duty ALO" I've only told ONE candidate not to take the tests again.

That was when she presented me with her:

760V, 800M
35 Composite

I said "...nah...you're fine with those." :shake:

And then she went to another SA! :yikes:
(and she's burning the place up!) :thumb:

I keep in touch with "my kids!"

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
Thanks for all the input. DS just confirmed he's registered for May SATs and will keep on taking them til they're right.
 
Advice from a mom of a senior. Take the SAT three times at least - Twice in junior year and once in fall of senior year. Analyze the test results each time and see which types of questions your child did poorly on. If you can afford, get a good tutor to work on those difficult sections one on one with your child. Spend time memorizing VOCABULARY from the College Board or Princeton Review SAT books for the Reading section. (One kid I know went up 140 points on Reading, to close to an 800, just by focusing on the vocab.) Take practice tests and do the practice problems in those books. Try the ACT junior year and do the same thing. See which test seems more appealing to your child. (Mine liked the SAT better, so he only took the ACT once.) Most kids we know improved their scores with age and practice. Good luck!
 
We used a tutor too, from the Princeton review, and our son's verbal went from a 600 to a 740. Better results than he had from taking the sat prep class!
 
I believe the most important factor is which MOC area you reside in. My daughter beat ALL the averages (GPA/ACT'S/Varsity sports/EC's/perfect medical) for the appointees from the 2014 class. IOW she would have been easily in the top half of those who actually RECEIVED appointments. However, the Academy must appoint throughout ALL the states and therefore if you are coming from a MOC that doesn't have a lot of qualified applicants and you meet the min requirements, you will get an appointment over much more qualified applicants. Doesn't quite make sense in the mobile society that we have now (we have lived in 7 different states but settled in Colorado), but it is what it is. So to look at what your chances are, the first thing you would want to know is: how competitive is the area/state I live in?
 
F15 said:
I believe the most important factor is which MOC area you reside in. My daughter beat ALL the averages (GPA/ACT'S/Varsity sports/EC's/perfect medical) for the appointees from the 2014 class. IOW she would have been easily in the top half of those who actually RECEIVED appointments. However, the Academy must appoint throughout ALL the states and therefore if you are coming from a MOC that doesn't have a lot of qualified applicants and you meet the min requirements, you will get an appointment over much more qualified applicants. Doesn't quite make sense in the mobile society that we have now (we have lived in 7 different states but settled in Colorado), but it is what it is. So to look at what your chances are, the first thing you would want to know is: how competitive is the area/state I live in?
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In a nutshell; you are correct. You compete against your congressional district and those who applied from there. (If you received a nomination from your congressman). You also compete against everyone in your state for possibly 2 other slots (If you got your senator's nomination also). If you don't win these appointments, you take whatever nomination you received, and you are then in the national pool. If you don't get an appointment there, then it's over.

You are correct. A person with a 28ACT/1850SAT, 3.8gpa, etc... can receive an Appointment in one district/state, while a person with a 30ACT/1900SAT, 3.95gpa from a different district/state DOESN'T get an appointment at all. That's the way it is. And yes, there IS FAIRNESS to it. All 300 MILLION+ people in the united states (Who legally exist and pay taxes) pay towards the existence and operations of the military academies. In other words, each state has the right to be equally represented at the academies being they are also paying for it. That's why each representative and senator has so many authorized slots at the academy. The national pool is how you wanted it. Everyone left competing against each other, without district/state/etc... into it. It's actually a very fair and accurate balance in giving appointments. Of course it's difficult to explain to the 3.90gpa/30ACT/2000SAT applicant who doesn't get an appointment.
 
i agree with the several posters who said to hire a tutor. And take the ACT. we paid for the 1 on 1 test prep at one of the "big name" SAT prep companies. he took the SAT 4 times unofficially at the center before he actually took the official SAT. each time they figure out what your child is weak in, where they are improving, not improving etc... they also had him work on vocabulary. You get one on one help with what you are weak in. they also advised him towards the end on which type questions to skip because he typically would have trouble with a particular type of question. In the SAT you get penalized for getting a question wrong. By the time he took the official test he had the stamina and had learned how to take the test. when you are not used to it it can be exhausting to take the SAT.

Tutoring is expensive but it pays off not only if you get into an academy but also for merit based scholarships at plan b, c and d; not to mention ROTC. A $70,000. scholarship for 4 years plus AF ROTC scholarship pays for tuition at plan B private school.

The tutoring also helped with regard to the ACT's because the material tested is the same but the format of the tests is different. DS did better on the ACT's but still hit mean on the SAT's. DS also had academics, sports, leadership, volunteer, and great other extras. Received a LOA and accepted an appointment so it more than paid off for him. now just like all the other appointees he will be just a basic cadet and in a way starting over building his CV.

Good Luck!
 
Christcorp said:
As others have said, you have to apply. It does you no good if you don't apply. Keep taking the SAT over and over again. The academy will use the HIGHEST score you ever had in EACH category. Even if it means the highest in math last time and CR in a more recent test. It's called superscoring. Also; take the ACT.

ALSO: I don't see anything on there about sports. I know a varsity letter sounds good, but it doesn't count if it's in JrROTC, Band, etc... Those are all good activities to belong to, but if you don't have a SPORT, you're almost not competitive at all. FWIW: I've seen personally an applicant who was 4.0gpa unweighted; #1 in their class; average ACT in the 33-34; SAT in the 2300 area. They DID NOT receive an appointment to the academy because they didn't have ANY sports and very little leadership or EC activities. Not to bum anyone out, but this is the military. It's very physical and all about "Team-Work". That is the basic essential of team sports. It's Physical and it's about "Team-Work". It's the academy's only real way to see if you are a "Team Player" and are physically fit. DO SPORTS!!!
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Not to play devils advocate, but I didn't have any varsity letters on my application, all I had was particpation in track starting my senior year.
 
Hello,

I have received my SAT scores as well today. This was the second time I have taken them. The first time I scored 680M, 610V, and 620W. This time I scored 670M, 620V, and, to my surprise, 750W. Will the Academy completely ignore my Writing score or will they take it into account.

I would also like to ask if someone could please review my current involvement and possibly comment on how I could improve my application and make myself more competitive.

GPA unweighted: 3.62
GPA weighted: 4.11
No class rank since my school does not rank its students.

5 AP Classes taken so far: World History, US History, English 3, Biology, Calculus AB
Signed up for 4 AP Classes for next year: English 4, Gov/Econ, Physics, Calculus BC
6 Honors Classes: Algebra 2, Trig/Precalc, French 2, French 3, English 2, Chemistry

Sports: JV Tennis (9th grade), V Track (9th grade- earned a varsity letter), V Track (10th grade- did not complete season due to injury)
This year (junior year), I am not participating in track due to a loaded schedule. Next year, I plan on trying out for the soccer team and if that doesn't work out then I will be joining track.

EC: Speech and Debate (10th grade), Science Club Treasurer (10th grade), Science Club President (11th grade), Homeroom Representative (11th grade)

Some community service however not involved in any programs such as Girl Scouts or Church youth group.

Once again, my questions: Am I competitive? What can I do to improve my application? Any specific areas to focus on? Any other additional comment would be appreciated.

Thank you!
 
JohnUSAFA said:
Not to play devils advocate, but I didn't have any varsity letters on my application, all I had was particpation in track starting my senior year.
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I don't think I said anywhere that you had to have a Varsity Letter in a sport. I was commenting on the poster's post; that it didn't include any sports. It had varsity letters, but they were in JrROTC. That doesn't count as a sport. They may have had a sport and just didn't list it here, but that's what I was commenting on. Matter of fact, if you click on the link in my signature, and look at the USAFA brochure, it gives the stats for cadets. Only 83% actually received Varsity Letter awards for athletics. So while you don't have to have a varsity letter, it helps. But not having ANY SPORTS is a killer. Especially "Team Sports". They want to see physically fit individuals who are also "Team Players". After all; that is 80% of the military team work and physical activity.
 
ctuma2--

Your SAT scores will be superscored, meaning right now you would have a 680M, 620V, and 750W. All 3 will be listed on your status page (once next year's are up--around July), but whether the writing is as impt. as the others I don't know. I would prep for the SAT and take it again. Also take the ACT, some people do better on it.

Sports--Honestly you would have been better off competing in track this year even with the loaded schedule (AFA will be "loaded" too and they want to see you can handle it all). The Academy likes to see consistency and growth in activities (start out as a member, or teammate then proceed to a leadership or captain's role etc), not just a year of this, a year of that. You can explain being hurt during track season sophomore year, but by the time you go out for track in the spring as a senior, decisions have been made and appointments are being offered. Hopefully you'll make the soccer team--it is a good sport to show you have experience with being a team player.

Extracurriculars--You need to continue with Science Club (again for consistency etc) but I think your EC's are an area that could use some beefing up. You don't say what your community service is, hopefully you've had a decent amount of hours and can easily talk about your role/constributions during your interview with your ALO.

Good luck, you have time to keep improving your package for your application! Even after you first submit all your information, you will be able to make updates to your file through January or February.
 
DD took the ACT & SAT once. She is not a good test taker...

SAT:Critical Reading 470; Math 570; Writing 500
ACT Scores: English 24: Math 25: Reading 30: Science 25:
GPA: 3.7

Had a ton of extra curricular stuff plus she is an IC.

Anything is possible. Don't give up...

Last semester she was on the dean's list and athletic dean's list.


2014 Like a Machine
 
F15 said:
So to look at what your chances are, the first thing you would want to know is: how competitive is the area/state I live in?
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Just wondering how someone could actually find out how competitive an area/state is? We are very new to this.
 
Let me ask a question. "NOT TO SOUND FACETIOUS". Are you considering moving? Are you thinking about: "Where should I move to, to improve the chances of my son/daughter getting a nomination"? If the answer is No; you don't plan on moving; then does it really matter how competitive your district or state is? Is there anything you can do once you know how competitive your district/state is?

Again; I'm not trying to sound facetious, but many applicants and their parents, spend way too much time on things that they have little to no affect on, instead concentrating their efforts into providing the BEST application possible. If you discovered that your district state had "Average" applicants applying; with 3.8gpa, 1800 SAT, 29 ACT, etc..., would you then decide that because you had a 31ACT and 1900SAT and 3.9 gpa that you "Didn't have to take the SAT/ACT again; or take that AP Chemistry class; because you're already "HIGHER" than the district/state's average??? I would hope not!!

It doesn't matter if you are competing against 1 other person in your district/state or 250 other applicants. You can only control what is directly relevant to you. Your GPA; your SAT/ACT; your leadership activities; your athletic involvement; your physical fitness. Concentrate on what you have control over. Concentrate on submitting the very best application that YOU CAN SUBMIT. Not what others have. Be the best that you can be. Then, have backup choices and options in your basket. ROTC, Civilian Colleges, etc...

There is NO LIST that says: "These are competitive districts/states". But it's pretty obvious which ones are "MORE COMPETITIVE" than others. If you live in an area that is physically close to an Air Force base or military installation, it is going to be more competitive, because there's going to be more interest in the military. If you live in a highly populated district and state, that too is going to be more competitive, simply because you can only compete for a nomination in your district or state. Most districts have the same amount of people, but the state still only has 2 senators. One state has 500,000 people for 2 senators and another state has 10,000,000 people for 2 senators.

Also; the political "Tone" of a district will also tell you if it's competitive. Military service tends to be more conservative in nature. So; an applicant to a military academy in the Berkly or San Fransisco area is probably a lot LESS competitive, because most people in that area aren't as interested. Also; districts that are very "Exclusive". Meaning; wealthy people live there; tends to be less competitive. These people have a much easier time paying for college. And contrary to what some people think, not everyone applies to the academies because they want to serve their country. Many do it because it's "Free College".

Anyway; there's a lot of "IF's" here. But what's most important is; unless you plan of MOVING specifically to a less competitive district/state, then it doesn't matter how competitive it is. Concentrate on the things you CAN CONTROL; not the things you have no control over. Work on your grades, sports, leadership, tests, etc.... Sorry if it's not really what you wanted to hear, but how competitive your district/state are is totally irrelevant. Best of luck. Mike....
 
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