Scholarship Moratorium
- Thread starter Marist College ROTC
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Pima
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gojack,
I disagree with one part of your advice.
At least for our DS, once he turned 18 we were left out of the loop, because he was a legal adult.
I understand where this parent is because this is their $$$, but do him a favor, and MAKE him call. This will show:
1. His desires
2. His commitment
Helo parents are not looked upon kindly by the military.
The one thing that is stressed over and over again on the SA site is for the parents not to do the contacting. It is the cadets responsibility. It is their life. Yes, give them guidance and direction, BUT if there needs to be communication and they are over 18, the military will cut the parents out and will not discuss the matter.
18 means legally responsible.
Granted some schools may not take the line DS's did, but the fact is even if they don't, it will look better upon him if he contacts instead of Mommy or Daddy.
Back to the OP.
Jcc123,
You have 2 posters here who are at colleges as AROTC officers (Marist and Clarkson), both are stating there is a moratorium. Both have stated that this yr their incoming class with scholarship recipients were drastically reduced.
The DoD is going through RIFs, SERBS, reduction in SA class size and scholarship awards, etc. Honestly, if it was me, I would say that if there isn't a moratorium on IS, it is dang close to having it. That means IMPO, they better be not a shining star but the Sun.
It could be that your DS is going to a "big draw" school, and thus, they may still get some IS. The questions your DS needs to ask are what will be the % for IS that you expect to be awarded. What was last yrs?
*** Do not ask numbers, you want percentage. In other words, we expect 10 to be awarded. Sounds great until you realize there are 300 up for it.
If they say we expect 15%, but they gave 45% ly, that should also give you a warning.
I wish the best to you. Parent to parent, if he doesn't take control of this maybe that is a sign he truly doesn't want it.
I disagree with one part of your advice.
gojack said:
At least for our DS, once he turned 18 we were left out of the loop, because he was a legal adult.
I understand where this parent is because this is their $$$, but do him a favor, and MAKE him call. This will show:
1. His desires
2. His commitment
Helo parents are not looked upon kindly by the military.
The one thing that is stressed over and over again on the SA site is for the parents not to do the contacting. It is the cadets responsibility. It is their life. Yes, give them guidance and direction, BUT if there needs to be communication and they are over 18, the military will cut the parents out and will not discuss the matter.
18 means legally responsible.
Granted some schools may not take the line DS's did, but the fact is even if they don't, it will look better upon him if he contacts instead of Mommy or Daddy.
Back to the OP.
Jcc123,
You have 2 posters here who are at colleges as AROTC officers (Marist and Clarkson), both are stating there is a moratorium. Both have stated that this yr their incoming class with scholarship recipients were drastically reduced.
The DoD is going through RIFs, SERBS, reduction in SA class size and scholarship awards, etc. Honestly, if it was me, I would say that if there isn't a moratorium on IS, it is dang close to having it. That means IMPO, they better be not a shining star but the Sun.
It could be that your DS is going to a "big draw" school, and thus, they may still get some IS. The questions your DS needs to ask are what will be the % for IS that you expect to be awarded. What was last yrs?
*** Do not ask numbers, you want percentage. In other words, we expect 10 to be awarded. Sounds great until you realize there are 300 up for it.
If they say we expect 15%, but they gave 45% ly, that should also give you a warning.
I wish the best to you. Parent to parent, if he doesn't take control of this maybe that is a sign he truly doesn't want it.
If you read the original post carefully, it says "my BDE (Brigade)". There are 8 Brigades. It is not necessarily the case that every Brigade will handle its budget the same way. I believe OP is in the 2nd Brigade.
http://www.rotc.usaac.army.mil/org.html
http://www.rotc.usaac.army.mil/org.html
Pima
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Dunninla,
Please clarify.
I understand your assumption regarding Brigades, but the fact is the DoD has X dollars. All of them are feeling the pain regarding turning the screws.
If WP is reducing their size for the incoming class (16), why would you assume that they would allow ROTC to remain at their current size?
If you are stating that AROTC scholarships are predicated based solely on the school, than wouldn't that hurt the Army. I.E. 2nd and 8th BDE have the most Ivies, whereas 3rd doesn't. (Harvard, Yale, Penn, Princeton, Columbia, MIT, Cornell, Bucknell, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Berkeley, etc.) Please tell me besides UIC and Notre Dame how many Ivies are in the 3rd. Actually if we were to honest, the Ivies are typically referred to as HYSPPM...Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, Penn and MIT
The majority of cadets applying to an SA will apply to one of these schools that I listed in the previous paragraph.
Are you implying that Eastern Carolina University would be safe from the chopping block compared to the kid at Columbia just because they were in the 4th BDE, compared to 2nd? Are you stating that the education doesn't matter, and they will cut equally across the board?
Please clarify.
I understand your assumption regarding Brigades, but the fact is the DoD has X dollars. All of them are feeling the pain regarding turning the screws.
If WP is reducing their size for the incoming class (16), why would you assume that they would allow ROTC to remain at their current size?
If you are stating that AROTC scholarships are predicated based solely on the school, than wouldn't that hurt the Army. I.E. 2nd and 8th BDE have the most Ivies, whereas 3rd doesn't. (Harvard, Yale, Penn, Princeton, Columbia, MIT, Cornell, Bucknell, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Berkeley, etc.) Please tell me besides UIC and Notre Dame how many Ivies are in the 3rd. Actually if we were to honest, the Ivies are typically referred to as HYSPPM...Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton, Penn and MIT
The majority of cadets applying to an SA will apply to one of these schools that I listed in the previous paragraph.
Are you implying that Eastern Carolina University would be safe from the chopping block compared to the kid at Columbia just because they were in the 4th BDE, compared to 2nd? Are you stating that the education doesn't matter, and they will cut equally across the board?
Slightly off-topic, but nowhere did I imply that I intended to call the battalion myself. All these conversations have occurred between my son and the cadre - hence the phraseology "he is being told...". Minor point, but whoever decided to pursue that line of thinking sort of derailed the purpose of the thread.
My question still stands - is there anywhere I can look for independent confirmation of a scholarship moratorium, or is that information not available to the general public?
My question still stands - is there anywhere I can look for independent confirmation of a scholarship moratorium, or is that information not available to the general public?
Slightly off-topic, but nowhere did I Imply that I intended to call the battalion myself. All these conversations have occurred between my son and the cadre - hence the phraseology "he is being told...". Minor point, but whoever decided to pursue that line of thinking sort of derailed the purpose of the thread.
My question still stands - is there anywhere I can look for independent confirmation of a scholarship moratorium, or is that information not available to the general public?
My question still stands - is there anywhere I can look for independent confirmation of a scholarship moratorium, or is that information not available to the general public?
Pima
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gojack,
Please don't think i was insinuating anything regarding your child or your family. I was stating a general statement regarding how it may be viewed by the command.
I want to clarify something here regarding our views. We are 2 opposite sides.
Mine is about How ROTC views the parent, and yours, IMPO is about How the school/govt views parent
You are 1,000,000 % correct the school will keep you involved. That doesn't mean ROTC will.
I apologize if you believe I insulted your family or your child, that was not my intention.
My intention was and is to say that it is your child's job to contact and discuss this issue with them regarding the scholarship. Not you, the parent.
As a parent, you should guide and direct on how to work the system, but when the person answers the phone on the other side, they should hear:
Hello, Sgt. Smith.
This is Cadet Jones.
Can you please answer a few of my questions, or direct my call to someone who can regarding IS scholarships?
The conversation should not be:
Hello, Sgt. Smith.
This is Cadet Jones's Mother
Cadet Jones is an incoming non-scholarship freshman.
Can you please answer a few of my questions regarding his opportunity next yr for a scholarship or direct my call to someone who can?
That was my point when I said I disagreed about a parent contacting the unit.
Contact the Bursar or the FA office, in case there is a "lock issue", but leave ROTC issues to your child.
Please don't think i was insinuating anything regarding your child or your family. I was stating a general statement regarding how it may be viewed by the command.
I want to clarify something here regarding our views. We are 2 opposite sides.
Mine is about How ROTC views the parent, and yours, IMPO is about How the school/govt views parent
You are 1,000,000 % correct the school will keep you involved. That doesn't mean ROTC will.
I apologize if you believe I insulted your family or your child, that was not my intention.
My intention was and is to say that it is your child's job to contact and discuss this issue with them regarding the scholarship. Not you, the parent.
As a parent, you should guide and direct on how to work the system, but when the person answers the phone on the other side, they should hear:
Hello, Sgt. Smith.
This is Cadet Jones.
Can you please answer a few of my questions, or direct my call to someone who can regarding IS scholarships?
The conversation should not be:
Hello, Sgt. Smith.
This is Cadet Jones's Mother
Cadet Jones is an incoming non-scholarship freshman.
Can you please answer a few of my questions regarding his opportunity next yr for a scholarship or direct my call to someone who can?
That was my point when I said I disagreed about a parent contacting the unit.
Contact the Bursar or the FA office, in case there is a "lock issue", but leave ROTC issues to your child.
@PIMA,
I am saying that the 8 Brigades probably have the ability, within their jurisdiction, to take the Budget allocated them by Cadet Command to decide how to get the most bang/$ within their Brigade. The COL in command of 2nd Brigade will not likely have exactly the same ideas about how to meet his/her Brigade's budget as the COL in 5th Brigade might.
I'm not clear what you're asking when you bring in the subject of Ivies. I don't have access to Cadet Command's internal memos, so I don't know how much they value (and allocate budget for) a Cadet graduating from HYPSM (that's the acronym you were looking for) vs. Texas A&M vs. UC Berkeley. I suspect Cadet Command values an Engineer from NC State over a PoliSci major from Harvard, but again, I cannot read their minds.
Regarding the Budget for the 8 Brigades that compose Cadet Command, I don't know how much Cadet Command controls the budget allocated for each Brigade, but in most business organizations a Division head is given a target (i.e. 6% cut), and it's up to that Division Head (COL in the case of a Brigade) to allocate those cuts to still get the most 2nd LT commissioned as possible within the Budget. As in business, that usually means those Battalions, or Units within Battalions, who perform above expectation get a bigger piece of the allocated budget going forward, and those who have failed to perform get a smaller piece going forward. As I mentioned in a second post, if the Brigade has a say in how its budget is allocated, the Brigade might try to shift $$ (that is, $$ UNDER THEIR CONTROL) from Private to Public, geting 2-3x as many cadets with the same budget.
P.S. regarding parental contacts, we found in the application process last year that Navy ROTC (and Naval Academy) is the most clear that they want, or should I say REQUIRE, the aspiring Mid to take complete control of the whole process -- for example it would be highly unusual of not jaw-dropping for a Navy ROTC's parents to be present in the room during the Officer Interview, whereas Army ROTC is the most accepting of parental involvement... even inviting of it, including for the Officer Interview. I don't know where AF would stand, but from your posts it sounds exactly like Navy.
I am saying that the 8 Brigades probably have the ability, within their jurisdiction, to take the Budget allocated them by Cadet Command to decide how to get the most bang/$ within their Brigade. The COL in command of 2nd Brigade will not likely have exactly the same ideas about how to meet his/her Brigade's budget as the COL in 5th Brigade might.
I'm not clear what you're asking when you bring in the subject of Ivies. I don't have access to Cadet Command's internal memos, so I don't know how much they value (and allocate budget for) a Cadet graduating from HYPSM (that's the acronym you were looking for) vs. Texas A&M vs. UC Berkeley. I suspect Cadet Command values an Engineer from NC State over a PoliSci major from Harvard, but again, I cannot read their minds.
Regarding the Budget for the 8 Brigades that compose Cadet Command, I don't know how much Cadet Command controls the budget allocated for each Brigade, but in most business organizations a Division head is given a target (i.e. 6% cut), and it's up to that Division Head (COL in the case of a Brigade) to allocate those cuts to still get the most 2nd LT commissioned as possible within the Budget. As in business, that usually means those Battalions, or Units within Battalions, who perform above expectation get a bigger piece of the allocated budget going forward, and those who have failed to perform get a smaller piece going forward. As I mentioned in a second post, if the Brigade has a say in how its budget is allocated, the Brigade might try to shift $$ (that is, $$ UNDER THEIR CONTROL) from Private to Public, geting 2-3x as many cadets with the same budget.
P.S. regarding parental contacts, we found in the application process last year that Navy ROTC (and Naval Academy) is the most clear that they want, or should I say REQUIRE, the aspiring Mid to take complete control of the whole process -- for example it would be highly unusual of not jaw-dropping for a Navy ROTC's parents to be present in the room during the Officer Interview, whereas Army ROTC is the most accepting of parental involvement... even inviting of it, including for the Officer Interview. I don't know where AF would stand, but from your posts it sounds exactly like Navy.
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Pima
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Jcc123,
Nowhere are you going to find confirmation, until the Army releases it.
Military fiscal budget runs Oct 1 -Sept 30.
If you want my gut answer, it is I side with Marist and Clarkson.
DoD is on the chopping block.
Gates, before he left and Mullen; stated AD pay and bennies are on the table.
WP has announced that their incoming classes will be reduced.
Troops are coming home.
Place all of that together + Marist and Clarkson saying their incoming 15 class were greatly reduced, leaves me to believe the MORATORIUM is on!
Sorry, but that is my gut. I hope I am wrong.
Nowhere are you going to find confirmation, until the Army releases it.
Military fiscal budget runs Oct 1 -Sept 30.
If you want my gut answer, it is I side with Marist and Clarkson.
DoD is on the chopping block.
Gates, before he left and Mullen; stated AD pay and bennies are on the table.
WP has announced that their incoming classes will be reduced.
Troops are coming home.
Place all of that together + Marist and Clarkson saying their incoming 15 class were greatly reduced, leaves me to believe the MORATORIUM is on!
Sorry, but that is my gut. I hope I am wrong.
Pima, I know nothing of any other services, but I have met with 6 AROTC PMS's.
They all made it clear that they had an 'open door policy' for both cadets
and parents, and that parental support was encouraged and appreciated.
Moratorium - The ROO said they have funds, so they think they have funds.
The only way to get more info is for someone to go up the chain.
AROTC Parent
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ROTC2015, This will not impact your 3 year Advance Designee Scholarship. The possible moratorium is regarding 'in college' scholarships. Go to school ready to participate freshman year and you will contract your sophomore year.
Marist College ROTC
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Most of the cadre at all of the ROTC programs are either TDY at LTC/LDAC or on leave. That is what happens during the Summer. If your cadre are making promises about on campus scholarships, they are either uninformed or dipping into a different pot of $. Some schools have alumni or university funds that are also used to provide scholarships.
Pima
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gojack,
I think our connections are being crossed.
What I am saying is that anything fiscal must be done through the cadet because they are over 18, and the military will not allow you, the parent access into their "mypay" account.
Now granted that maybe the Army is more lax over this, but for AFROTC HQ where you would get many answers regarding the individual cadet from a scholarship/DodMERB perspective will tell parents that if the cadet is over 18, they are not able to discuss anything regarding the cadets finances or medical with anyone, but the cadet.
Heck, believe it or not some colleges are that way, both our kids schools will not allow you to access their accounts unless you give them specific codes, which the kids set up, thus, even there it is the kids that have total control. If your child does not give you the code you can't force the school to give it to you. Granted every kid will give the code for the folks because they need them to pay, but even colleges live by they are 18, and this is a legal contract between Student/Cadet Bob Jones and the school/military. It is not between Student Bob Jones's parents and the school/military.
I would also say the big issue of why nobody can yet say YES or NO, is that these IS scholarships will come out of the FY11/12 budget, and that budget does not go into effect until Oct.1. So right now, they are still hashing out the numbers of what will be available. Remember, if they give an IS scholarship, it is not for 1 yr, but 3, that means they need to be able to maintain that budget for those scholarships until at least FY 15/16.
Right now the problem is the economy. That is MPO. Had the economy maintained even a 6-7% unemployment many kids would not be looking at these scholarships. Additionally, the AD would be doing what is called 4 and out the door. However, because it is over 9%, and the stock market still at the level it was 3 yrs ago, many kids have had to search for alternative methods, while the AD members are staying because a paycheck is a paycheck.
The final issue to place into the equation is that the SA's are appointing less cadets, thus, that means more will accept the scholarship as Plan A instead of throwing it back in the pool. Use the class of 15 USMA stats as an example.
Heed Marist's advice. ROTC units become ghost towns in July. Not only do they become ghost towns, but you should understand that PCS season is June-Aug, thus, there is a change over of staff, not only in ROTC, but at Army HQ for ROTC. That means the people you are speaking to may have just PCS'd into the BN and are new to the system.
I think our connections are being crossed.
What I am saying is that anything fiscal must be done through the cadet because they are over 18, and the military will not allow you, the parent access into their "mypay" account.
Now granted that maybe the Army is more lax over this, but for AFROTC HQ where you would get many answers regarding the individual cadet from a scholarship/DodMERB perspective will tell parents that if the cadet is over 18, they are not able to discuss anything regarding the cadets finances or medical with anyone, but the cadet.
Heck, believe it or not some colleges are that way, both our kids schools will not allow you to access their accounts unless you give them specific codes, which the kids set up, thus, even there it is the kids that have total control. If your child does not give you the code you can't force the school to give it to you. Granted every kid will give the code for the folks because they need them to pay, but even colleges live by they are 18, and this is a legal contract between Student/Cadet Bob Jones and the school/military. It is not between Student Bob Jones's parents and the school/military.
Marist College ROTC said:
I would also say the big issue of why nobody can yet say YES or NO, is that these IS scholarships will come out of the FY11/12 budget, and that budget does not go into effect until Oct.1. So right now, they are still hashing out the numbers of what will be available. Remember, if they give an IS scholarship, it is not for 1 yr, but 3, that means they need to be able to maintain that budget for those scholarships until at least FY 15/16.
Right now the problem is the economy. That is MPO. Had the economy maintained even a 6-7% unemployment many kids would not be looking at these scholarships. Additionally, the AD would be doing what is called 4 and out the door. However, because it is over 9%, and the stock market still at the level it was 3 yrs ago, many kids have had to search for alternative methods, while the AD members are staying because a paycheck is a paycheck.
The final issue to place into the equation is that the SA's are appointing less cadets, thus, that means more will accept the scholarship as Plan A instead of throwing it back in the pool. Use the class of 15 USMA stats as an example.
Heed Marist's advice. ROTC units become ghost towns in July. Not only do they become ghost towns, but you should understand that PCS season is June-Aug, thus, there is a change over of staff, not only in ROTC, but at Army HQ for ROTC. That means the people you are speaking to may have just PCS'd into the BN and are new to the system.
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^
"PCSed" =?
"MPO" =?
and from Marist: TDY = ?
I'm reasonably sure BN = Battalion and I KNOW FY = Fiscal Year, and that AD = Active Duty.
Now, here's a George Carlin type question: Why are Officers in Training at colleges, for primarily Active Duty commissioning part of what is called: RESERVE Officer's Training Corps? Wouldn't a better term be Collegiate Officers Training Corps?
I mean, if the U.S. Army Air Corps can be renamed "U.S. Air Force", how hard can it be to change a confusing name from ROTC to COTC?
"PCSed" =?
"MPO" =?
and from Marist: TDY = ?
I'm reasonably sure BN = Battalion and I KNOW FY = Fiscal Year, and that AD = Active Duty.
Now, here's a George Carlin type question: Why are Officers in Training at colleges, for primarily Active Duty commissioning part of what is called: RESERVE Officer's Training Corps? Wouldn't a better term be Collegiate Officers Training Corps?
I mean, if the U.S. Army Air Corps can be renamed "U.S. Air Force", how hard can it be to change a confusing name from ROTC to COTC?
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Marist College ROTC
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MPO = my personal opinion ?
PCS= Permanent Change of Station (ie.. moving)
TDY= Temporary Duty (ie... business trip)
MPO = your guess is as good as mine?
I thought MPO was Military Post Office ?
Same reason we don't title a commanding general "Vlad the Impaler" or something like that to scare our enemies.
Because the enemies to be most afraid of - are the ones in our own congress. 'Reserve' sounds defensive not offensive, and to some in congress all offensive forces are just offensive.
The same today as pre-WWI (when ROTC was started) when the pacifists were against a strong military,
believing that having the ability to wage war - was the cause of war. 'Reserve' was easier an sell then also.
Same reason we don't title a commanding general "Vlad the Impaler" or something like that to scare our enemies.
Because the enemies to be most afraid of - are the ones in our own congress. 'Reserve' sounds defensive not offensive, and to some in congress all offensive forces are just offensive.
The same today as pre-WWI (when ROTC was started) when the pacifists were against a strong military,
believing that having the ability to wage war - was the cause of war. 'Reserve' was easier an sell then also.
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Pima
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MPO = My Personal Opinion
Answer for the George Carlin, because once they become a POC (jr yr), they owe back time to the active duty world. As a POC they are issued a CAC (military ID card). BEWARE MILITARY PARENTS! Do not have them take one if Tri-Care is your only provider. If they do they will be dropped, because they have a CAC and Tri-Care will see them as a military member, and not a dependent. ***They must hand in their dependent ID card for the CAC, which they use for proof of insurance, and now they no longer have a sponsor. It is stupid, but that is the system, again, at least AF. DS, and 1 other cadet in his group are the only ones out of all the POCs that do not have a CAC. We have another insurance provider, but Tri-Care picks up the rest of the bill, hence, fiscally, it was smarter for us to say keep the dependent i.d.
The Reserve part, at least for the AF, means that they are not AD commissioned, they are Reservist that go AD. This comes into play a couple of times.
1. If a RIF occurs (AF), they must start by cutting the Reserve Commissioned Officers. Once they clear through them they can cut the SA Commissioned. Back in 91. 95% of ROTC grads, including fliers for 85 or 86 (can't remember) were cut, SA grads were safe.
2. To become an O4 you must get another commissioning removing you from the Reserve roll to the AD roll. I think Bullet got his at 7 yrs.
3. Promotion boards. Boards go by DOR, (date of rank) not commissioning date. The SA grad has a DOR for his commissioning date. ROTC uses an avg. They take your commissioning date, and your report date, the avg becomes the DOR. Ex: Commission in May, report in Feb., DOR is October.
4. The twist, when you retire you retire on your commissioning date, not your DOR. That means, you maybe eligible to retire at 20, but really only serve 19 yrs and 3 mos. See above.
5. When people talk about the 4 yr pay raise (big pay jump) for SA grads, they will get it all in 1 month. (May). For ROTC grads they will get their longevity pay for 4 yrs in May, but their rank to Capt. will not occur until Oct. At least for AF, because their DOR is Oct.
6. When trying to weigh the differences between the SA and ROTC, it is important to understand that the SA gets 1st dibs. If the career field is competitive than you need to understand you must shine that much more to get it. When pipelines slow, ROTC will feel it before the SA.
That should be abundantly apparent because ROTC scholarships were slowed down before the amount of cadets at the SA's were reduced.
7. If you bust out of your career school, they can cut you loose with nothing more than a hardy hand shake and a pat on the back. You are released from owing time back, but the problem for these people are they weren't prepared to enter the work force, and busting a school is not something you want to place on a resume.
They can also decide a few months prior to commissioning to cut you.
I know I diverted this thread, but I think it is important to understand from the AD world how these commissions differ.
I will leave it to Marist, Clarkson and JAM to explain how the IRR system works since AF does not have that option for commissioning.
*** OBTW, I don't know if there is an MPO, for the post office, I only know of APO, and FPO. After 9/11, at least for the AF, even the addresses for military members living on base, were changed. It use to be: SJAFB, NC, it changed to Goldsboro, NC. It was to protect the members living on base/post. I also know that if you are sending to an APO or FPO, it is usually followed with the country being AE or AP. I will never forget ours it was APO Box 6969 (no comment from the peanut gallery), AE XXXXX zip. AE = Air Europe, AP = Air Pacific. The post office for AE would collect it and send it out from the east coast, AP, would send it from the west coast.
Answer for the George Carlin, because once they become a POC (jr yr), they owe back time to the active duty world. As a POC they are issued a CAC (military ID card). BEWARE MILITARY PARENTS! Do not have them take one if Tri-Care is your only provider. If they do they will be dropped, because they have a CAC and Tri-Care will see them as a military member, and not a dependent. ***They must hand in their dependent ID card for the CAC, which they use for proof of insurance, and now they no longer have a sponsor. It is stupid, but that is the system, again, at least AF. DS, and 1 other cadet in his group are the only ones out of all the POCs that do not have a CAC. We have another insurance provider, but Tri-Care picks up the rest of the bill, hence, fiscally, it was smarter for us to say keep the dependent i.d.
The Reserve part, at least for the AF, means that they are not AD commissioned, they are Reservist that go AD. This comes into play a couple of times.
1. If a RIF occurs (AF), they must start by cutting the Reserve Commissioned Officers. Once they clear through them they can cut the SA Commissioned. Back in 91. 95% of ROTC grads, including fliers for 85 or 86 (can't remember) were cut, SA grads were safe.
2. To become an O4 you must get another commissioning removing you from the Reserve roll to the AD roll. I think Bullet got his at 7 yrs.
3. Promotion boards. Boards go by DOR, (date of rank) not commissioning date. The SA grad has a DOR for his commissioning date. ROTC uses an avg. They take your commissioning date, and your report date, the avg becomes the DOR. Ex: Commission in May, report in Feb., DOR is October.
4. The twist, when you retire you retire on your commissioning date, not your DOR. That means, you maybe eligible to retire at 20, but really only serve 19 yrs and 3 mos. See above.
5. When people talk about the 4 yr pay raise (big pay jump) for SA grads, they will get it all in 1 month. (May). For ROTC grads they will get their longevity pay for 4 yrs in May, but their rank to Capt. will not occur until Oct. At least for AF, because their DOR is Oct.
6. When trying to weigh the differences between the SA and ROTC, it is important to understand that the SA gets 1st dibs. If the career field is competitive than you need to understand you must shine that much more to get it. When pipelines slow, ROTC will feel it before the SA.
That should be abundantly apparent because ROTC scholarships were slowed down before the amount of cadets at the SA's were reduced.
7. If you bust out of your career school, they can cut you loose with nothing more than a hardy hand shake and a pat on the back. You are released from owing time back, but the problem for these people are they weren't prepared to enter the work force, and busting a school is not something you want to place on a resume.
They can also decide a few months prior to commissioning to cut you.
I know I diverted this thread, but I think it is important to understand from the AD world how these commissions differ.
I will leave it to Marist, Clarkson and JAM to explain how the IRR system works since AF does not have that option for commissioning.
*** OBTW, I don't know if there is an MPO, for the post office, I only know of APO, and FPO. After 9/11, at least for the AF, even the addresses for military members living on base, were changed. It use to be: SJAFB, NC, it changed to Goldsboro, NC. It was to protect the members living on base/post. I also know that if you are sending to an APO or FPO, it is usually followed with the country being AE or AP. I will never forget ours it was APO Box 6969 (no comment from the peanut gallery), AE XXXXX zip. AE = Air Europe, AP = Air Pacific. The post office for AE would collect it and send it out from the east coast, AP, would send it from the west coast.
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