Sea Year Sexual Assault Report(s)

[KPEngineer]

What also concerns me significantly is that this isn't a new thing. I was a cadet almost 30 years ago and it was already a thing then. We were told we would have female cadets coming on after me and the 1AE was scared s---less. We went around looking at all the empty cabins and he was trying to decide where to put the girls. He was considering how close vs far away from everyone else, access to their cabin doors from the outside, could someone approach their doors unseen, etc. He had me flip the air vents in the lower part of their doors over so someone couldn't try and peep into their rooms.

If it was a thing in the early 90s ... why is it still a thing now? What hasn't been done that should have been in the last 30 years?

 

[Don't Give Up the Ship]

Does a civil wrong committed on the ship create a maritime lien under 46 U.S.C. § 31342? If it did, wouldn't every shipboard fight with serious injuries, harassment case, injuries from negligence not covered by worker's compensation, etc. create a lien leading to hundreds or thousands of vessels potentially being impounded via ship arrest at any given moment?

From what I understand, a maritime lien is more limited to situations such as liens for those providing necessaries to a ship, injuries caused by the ship itself, etc.

​

I don't think a serious sex harassment or rape case is the same as a civil wrong. Just exploring how to change the USC to put some teeth into making the ship operator responsible for creating a safe workplace to prevent these crimes. Where is the USCG on this?

 

[GoodCounsel91]

Suozzi (Chair of BOV) and Gillenbrand call for investigation https://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/merchant-marine-assault-investigation-1.50381904

 

[justdoit19]

That link was hidden. So I searched myself. Been following this thread…

What a disgusting rabbit hole. Why WOUKD somone come forward, with THIS history, overall? Reading this complaint, EIGHT others had already filed.

This is SHAMEFUL. The problem goes further than the ship…

An Epic Sexual Assault Scandal, 30 Years in the Making, is Coming for the U.S. Coast Guard. — M.L.A.A.

An Epic Sexual Assault Scandal, 30 Years in the Making, is Coming for the U.S. Coast Guard.

www.maritimelegalaid.com

 

[Don't Give Up the Ship]

That link was hidden. So I searched myself. Been following this thread…

What a disgusting rabbit hole. Why WOUKD somone come forward, with THIS history, overall? Reading this complaint, EIGHT others had already filed.

This is SHAMEFUL. The problem goes further than the ship…

An Epic Sexual Assault Scandal, 30 Years in the Making, is Coming for the U.S. Coast Guard. — M.L.A.A.

An Epic Sexual Assault Scandal, 30 Years in the Making, is Coming for the U.S. Coast Guard.

www.maritimelegalaid.com

$5k penalty? How about up to $500k or three years to any licensed officer with knowledge and or the ship operator or owner… put some teeth into this.

 

[kyboymom]

That link was hidden. So I searched myself. Been following this thread…

What a disgusting rabbit hole. Why WOUKD somone come forward, with THIS history, overall? Reading this complaint, EIGHT others had already filed.

This is SHAMEFUL. The problem goes further than the ship…

An Epic Sexual Assault Scandal, 30 Years in the Making, is Coming for the U.S. Coast Guard. — M.L.A.A.

An Epic Sexual Assault Scandal, 30 Years in the Making, is Coming for the U.S. Coast Guard.

www.maritimelegalaid.com

This is absolutely sickening. I applaud the bravery and persistence of the women that reported and kept reporting. I think that answers the question as to why many don't report. I can only hope that this may FINALLY cause those with the ability to enact change to do so and hold those guilty accountable.

 

[Don't Give Up the Ship]

This is not just a KP issue. All the state maritime academies send cadets onto commercial ships (Typically for 60 days). The entire group of maritime academies have a responsibility to help address this significant problem.

 

[justdoit19]

This is not just a KP issue. All the state maritime academies send cadets onto commercial ships (Typically for 60 days). The entire group of maritime academies have a responsibility to help address this significant problem.

That’s exactly what I read in what I posted. It’s an industry issue. Not a KP issue. Just the response to that one instance, at the CG and FBI level is sooooooo disturbing.

 

[shiner]

All the state maritime academies send cadets onto commercial ships (Typically for 60 days).

Sooooo off topic and I hate asking, but why 12 months for USMMA? What is the actual time requirement for licensing? Are KP grads certifying at a higher level than state maritime grads? If the requirement is much lower, why is everyone always worried about getting enough time for their licensing exams?

 

[Don't Give Up the Ship]

Sooooo off topic and I hate asking, but why 12 months for USMMA? What is the actual time requirement for licensing? Are KP grads certifying at a higher level than state maritime grads? If the requirement is much lower, why is everyone always worried about getting enough time for their licensing exams?

Not sure why KP uses a year. But the state school license candidates need 180 days total to sit for their USCG 3rd Mates or 3rd Engineer's license. The license is the primary item that gets new officers jobs. Each school has to submit a plan to USCG for approval.

 

[kpmom2013]

Women have come so far in so many ways with respect in the workplace. It saddens me that when my DD got on her latest ship, she went to her quarters and found a racy Hooters calendar waiting for her. Not a big deal. She just threw it away without even saying anything. But it just struck me as a metaphor for the whole maritime industry. I am sure the male third mate did not have any such gifts waiting in his room. I cannot imagine that in this day and age, anyone in corporate America, or government, would get away with welcoming a new executive hire like this. Even worse, it's not just a workplace. It's where they have to live 24 hours a day for months at a time. Actually, it upsets me more than it upsets my DD. She just wants to do her job. But this incident is just a small example of the culture in the maritime industry, a culture that ultimately devalues women and leads to making excuses for sexual assaults. I am probably sounding like some kind of radical feminist which I am not. I just want my DD to be able to work in a safe place and earn respect through her capabilities on the job. Is that asking too much?

 

[KPEngineer]

Women have come so far in so many ways with respect in the workplace. It saddens me that when my DD got on her latest ship, she went to her quarters and found a racy Hooters calendar waiting for her. Not a big deal. She just threw it away without even saying anything. But it just struck me as a metaphor for the whole maritime industry. I am sure the male third mate did not have any such gifts waiting in his room. I cannot imagine that in this day and age, anyone in corporate America, or government, would get away with welcoming a new executive hire like this. Even worse, it's not just a workplace. It's where they have to live 24 hours a day for months at a time. Actually, it upsets me more than it upsets my DD. She just wants to do her job. But this incident is just a small example of the culture in the maritime industry, a culture that ultimately devalues women and leads to making excuses for sexual assaults. I am probably sounding like some kind of radical feminist which I am not. I just want my DD to be able to work in a safe place and earn respect through her capabilities on the job. Is that asking too much?

I had experiences as a cadet which today we would classify as sexual harassments. One involved an apparent "tradition" which involved sitting cadets down in the 1AE office to watch a particular movie of what I can determine to have less than zero socially redeeming qualities. The second incident involved my going away "gift" from another 1AE on a different ship who handed me a bad review, a stack of magazines with the same less than zero socially redeeming qualities, and the comment "don't say I never gave you anything".

It can be a little difficult in that a ship does blur the line a little bit between workspace and living space. Whatever someone brings into their own room of their own volition is one thing and I'm not judging but definitely don't leave it behind for the next person. Master's should also be weekly health/welfare inspections of the accommodations so you need to keep your stuff away and not out even if it is your cabin.

Someone once asked me what the best and worst parts of KP were. I said it was the same answer, the people. With a little more life behind me I would still have the same answer but might change it to sea year. Some of the worst aspects of KP are the behaviors upperclassmen have brought back from sea year.

 

[FiveByFive]

I don't think a serious sex harassment or rape case is the same as a civil wrong. Just exploring how to change the USC to put some teeth into making the ship operator responsible for creating a safe workplace to prevent these crimes. Where is the USCG on this?

A "civil wrong" is widely regarded as almost any case that can be brought (non-criminal case) for damages under "civil law" as it is known. A civil action for sexual harassment or rape would be a case for a "civil wrong" as well.

CIVIL Definition & Meaning - Black's Law Dictionary

Find the legal definition of CIVIL from Black's Law Dictionary, 2nd Edition. In its original sense, this word means pertaining or appropriate to a member of a civitas or free political community; natural or proper to a citizen....

thelawdictionary.org

 

[BeauGeste]

The young woman also chose not to report it, despite the availability of the SAT phone and the emphasis on SASH reporting. I understand she was underage, drinking, putting herself in a possible compromising situation, but, she needed to report it in order to have the offenders removed from the ship--as well as from doing this to other cadets over the last two years. The plans were put into place to give the midshipmen the opportunity to not have these things happen--or stop them before it continued. I know of many incidents which were reported and the violators were removed/fired. But, these violations need to attach to the violator in some way so they are not hired on other American-flagged ships/shipping lines.

This should NEVER happen. We all agree. But we need to have midshipmen REPORT things. There is no way the shipping company or USMMA can stop things if they don't know about it. My heart breaks for this girl as well as any others who have been violated. It shouldn't ever happen.

Sea Year was and is a great opportunity for our midshipmen to gain valuable experience and needs additional stopgaps to prevent and protect them while they are at sea. I'm hoping that this is another opportunity to KP to place further safety measures in place for midshipmen. Another Sea Year stand down will be disastrous.

100% agreement with azmilmom and Korab. Support for the victim. Report the crime and get the predator off the ship.

Someone else in the business will need to check my work here, but this culprit should be looking at something between 12 and 16 years of hard time in federal prison under 18 USC 2441, and applying the new Federal sentencing guidelines. That would do some justice, and send a message. Though I acknowledge that this may be small consolation to the victim.

As a father of several daughters (and several sons), may I also add an obvious point that I have not seen mentioned so far in this thread. (Forgive me if I missed it.) And that is this stark point: No one should willingly join in a drinking bout with others who are essentially strangers, no matter what the environmental pressures might be. And this is doubly true for a young, isolated woman, drinking with possibly randy men 3 times her age. I acknowledge that this gender "double standard" is contrary to the zeitgeist, but it remains inescapably true in our fallen world that this particular rule of thumb, which does indeed apply to everyone, sadly applies all the more so to a young woman. The contrasting physical consequences for these two mids illustrates the point, if indeed it needs to be illustrated.

Let me emphasize again that I say this as a father (who enjoys a drink now and then) who wants the best for his daughters (and sons).

 

[FiveByFive]

Someone else in the business will need to check my work here, but this culprit should be looking at something between 12 and 16 years of hard time in federal prison under 18 USC 2441, and applying the new Federal sentencing guidelines. That would do some justice, and send a message. Though I acknowledge that this may be small consolation to the victim.

I wouldn't imagine 18 USC 2441 applies as that is for "war crimes" specifically. Perhaps looking at 18 USC 7 would be the asnwer?

 

[BeauGeste]

I wouldn't imagine 18 USC 2441 applies as that is for "war crimes" specifically. Perhaps looking at 18 USC 7 would be the asnwer?

You are right. I tried to type 18 USC 2241. Sorry, and thanks for the correction.

 

[justdoit19]

100% agreement with azmilmom and Korab. Support for the victim. Report the crime and get the predator off the ship.

Someone else in the business will need to check my work here, but this culprit should be looking at something between 12 and 16 years of hard time in federal prison under 18 USC 2441, and applying the new Federal sentencing guidelines. That would do some justice, and send a message. Though I acknowledge that this may be small consolation to the victim.

As a father of several daughters (and several sons), may I also add an obvious point that I have not seen mentioned so far in this thread. (Forgive me if I missed it.) And that is this stark point: No one should willingly join in a drinking bout with others who are essentially strangers, no matter what the environmental pressures might be. And this is doubly true for a young, isolated woman, drinking with possibly randy men 3 times her age. I acknowledge that this gender "double standard" is contrary to the zeitgeist, but it remains inescapably true in our fallen world that this particular rule of thumb, which does indeed apply to everyone, sadly applies all the more so to a young woman. The contrasting physical consequences for these two mids illustrates the point, if indeed it needs to be illustrated.

Let me emphasize again that I say this as a father (who enjoys a drink now and then) who wants the best for his daughters (and sons).

Honestly…as a mom….this hit a nerve. IMO, kids need to learn how to manage alcohol. Personally, it doesn’t make sense to me to send them out into the real world without this skill. They need to experience how it affects them, if they are going to choose to consume, in a safe environment. In our state, kids can consume alcohol at home with parental permission. I’m all about that learning. A first time drinker, especially, has no idea how alcohol affects judgement, and impairs physical/mental responses. Learning to manage alcohol is a life skill, IMO (btw…this is NOT any comment at all about the victim. Only a comment about the importance of alcohol management for EVERYONE).

 

[OldAFRet]

Honestly…as a mom….this hit a nerve. IMO, kids need to learn how to manage alcohol. Personally, it doesn’t make sense to me to send them out into the real world without this skill. They need to experience how it affects them, if they are going to choose to consume, in a safe environment. In our state, kids can consume alcohol at home with parental permission. I’m all about that learning. A first time drinker, especially, has no idea how alcohol affects judgement, and impairs physical/mental responses. Learning to manage alcohol is a life skill, IMO (btw…this is NOT any comment at all about the victim. Only a comment about the importance of alcohol management for EVERYONE).

I feel like a character in those old rock-against-drugs commercials, but I'll say it anyway. Sex, drugs, and alcohol - if you never start, you'll never NEED to stop. How's that for management? Haven't had a drop in 18 years (simply a personal choice, no 12 step program involved), and people accept that I don't drink, and don't even offer anymore.

 

[StPaulDad]

I think @justdoit19 is pointing out the danger of anyone doing their first experimenting in the almost comically bad company of merchant sailors while abroad. It's a formula for a world of bad stories, and I think her point was either know yourself in advance or don't start there.

 

[jebdad]

Oh man, I got enraged reading that young ladies account. If someone did that to my daughter.... Heck, if someone did that to someone else's daughter in my circle of work, life...

Every single man on that ship who was aware of what happened and did nothing - they are just as messed up as the rapist. Disgusting.