Yep, DD knew the standard was 3. IMPO the recruiter should never have let her move forward with EOD since she could not do the 3 pull ups during the enlistment process and while she was waiting for her ship date to boot camp. To her credit she worked hard but made little progress prior to going . My headstrong DD was certain she would be able to get just one more. I guess now the standard is 6.
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Sec of Defense to open all combat jobs to women
- Thread starter AROTC-dad
- Start date
I absolutely agree with this...and have always believed those that had gone to IBOLC had an advantage at RS vs females and males who had not. No doubt women will have to train differently to be successful and I believe those seeking it will. They know they need to train to exceed the standards.Not that there may not be females who can handle the rucking and similar physical aspects. Just that it catches many very fit, strong PT grads by surprise. And it's going to take some very above average females to even meet the current minimum IBOLC graduation requirement. This is not just a score or rank matter, physicality is a major perception thing and surfaces in the peer ratings. Ex: falling back in formation ruck marches typically has a major negative impact on peers. As in, lowest. Peer too low, you will recycle IBOLC. Can't meet the RS RPFT standard? You will recycle IBOLC. Don't complete the 4 ruck marches in time? Recycle IBOLC. 5 Mile run on the RS course per RS std? Recycle IBOLC.
Just to be clear, I never advocated for a double standard. My DD would be the last one to ask for such a thing. DD didn't make the cut and has moved on. I think Navy hoops has done an excellent job of illustrating that one can be exceptionally strong in most areas but not be able to perform multiple pull-ups. I also agree with Navy Hoops in that the muscles used to do pull ups and the muscles to do other types of strenuous upper body tasks are very different. I have had to do the 200 lb dummy drag many times during training but cannot do 5 good pull-ups. Would DD have made a good EOD tech? I believe so as I find it difficult to believe that 1 more pull up is the magic pill to do that type of job. My point is simply this... sometimes the standard has little to do with the actual job.No offense, but anyone who cannot do a simple task like 3 pull-ups, Let alone twice after they let them have time to do a SINGLE additional pull-up I wouldn't trust to don a bomb suit and come pick me up if I was injured near an IED. You can be smart all day, does not make you fit for physical jobs. That's the point. Standards across the board, regardless of sex if the same job is to be performed. EOD is not a job for the faint of heart, both physically or mentally.
I do agree that not every one is good at every thing. My son can't do the back float. Sinks like a rock. Competitive swimmer friend tried to work with him but it did him no good. Google says some people just can't float, especially weight lifters. Thankfully he is Marine option. He is 6-1, 220 lbs of muscle. Has won competitions, benched 317 seven times, I think his max for 1 bench was 390. But he struggles with the Marine required number of pull ups. Different muscles. Longer arms means further to pull up. He does his 3 miles in about 20 min. Not bad for a big guy who hates to run. He could probably carry 2-3 people off a field though it might take 2 to carry him. Everyone has strengths and weakness and it would be a task for a smart NCO or officer to utilize each person in a way they would shine. Lower the standards? I am not sold on that idea. But women can bring valuable skills, too. Perhaps specializing the standards for the individual jobs. Infantry needs to do this. Sailors need to be able to float on their backs without sinking. Ammunition folk may need to be both strong and quick. Etc. Smart people run the military. They should be able to figure this out. It does not have to be "One standard fits all people", but maybe it should be "One standard fits each specific job"
Which study at http://www.defense.gov/News/Publications/WISR-Studies?
Women in Service Studies
Army - Gender Integration Study2.pdf
Women in Service Studies
Army - Gender Integration Study2.pdf
- USMC -Assessing How DEP Fitness is Related to Attrition_ Injuries_ and Physical Fitness_Redacted.pdf
- USMC - Line Of Effort 2 Research Assessment and Findings Final Report:
[
Ma'am, do you believe your Marines' integration study was biased, as has been stated by SECNAV, SECDEF, and their fellow travelers?
So the number of positions open to women have any quota? 1% to whoever success??
http://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/FACT_SHEET_REMAINING_POSITIONS_TO_BE_OPENED.pdf
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/2012/RAND_MG1175.pdf
p.56 to 63 include a Total Authorizations numbers
Army 18A Special Forces required a few years of service and to be a Captain. Same for enlisted 18B/CD/E/F Special Forces (82nd/75th/other infantry divisions) to served for a few years. But anyone after Naval boot camp can try out for SO Special Warfare Operator (Underwater Demolition Team/SEAL) or an officer just commissioned can try out for 113X Special Warfare Unrestricted Line Officer (Underwater Demolition Team/SEAL Officer) without serving in the fleet first.
http://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/FACT_SHEET_REMAINING_POSITIONS_TO_BE_OPENED.pdf
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/2012/RAND_MG1175.pdf
p.56 to 63 include a Total Authorizations numbers
Army 18A Special Forces required a few years of service and to be a Captain. Same for enlisted 18B/CD/E/F Special Forces (82nd/75th/other infantry divisions) to served for a few years. But anyone after Naval boot camp can try out for SO Special Warfare Operator (Underwater Demolition Team/SEAL) or an officer just commissioned can try out for 113X Special Warfare Unrestricted Line Officer (Underwater Demolition Team/SEAL Officer) without serving in the fleet first.
I am not posting this as an argument for females in combat roles. This whole thread has been everything a forum is supposed to be: informative, interesting and respectful of differing opinions. File this video under interesting/entertaining. It is also gives one pause when thinking about their fate if captured by ISIS/Daesh.
http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-afraid-of-girls-2015-12
Throughout the whole discussion, I have had the Kurds in the back of my mind. I knew that the Peshmerga utilizes a huge number of women in all kinds of roles, including frontline combat, but it isn't necessarily a template for the US military.
I wish that at least some of the 18-35 year old single male Syrian refugees flooding Europe would see this video, feel a little shame, and get their butts back to Syria and do as these brave women are doing.
http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-afraid-of-girls-2015-12
Throughout the whole discussion, I have had the Kurds in the back of my mind. I knew that the Peshmerga utilizes a huge number of women in all kinds of roles, including frontline combat, but it isn't necessarily a template for the US military.
I wish that at least some of the 18-35 year old single male Syrian refugees flooding Europe would see this video, feel a little shame, and get their butts back to Syria and do as these brave women are doing.