Second Chance

talltrees

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Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
127
I am currently applying for the class of 2024 and I don't think my chances are very good. I really want to go to West Point and be a Infantry Officer, so I have been debating whether I should apply to VMI and try apply first year or go to GreyStone Prep and apply again. What would be some positives and negatives of both options?
 
I don’t know anything about either place you mention, but why not apply to USMA, and see if you are either offered an appointment, or offered a prep option? You won’t know if you don’t try!
 
I don't know anything about Greystone Prep. I would say go to the best college that you can afford and do AROTC. Work hard and you will have a chance of earning an AROTC scholarship (isn't your goal to be an infantry officer?) If your grades are not good enough to get into the college that you want, then consider Prep (if you can afford it) and work your butt off and then apply to both colleges and USMA. If you don't apply to USMA, you won't have a chance. Many have made it after prep or after a year at a private college.
 
The rigors of the first year at any of the Senior Military Colleges (SME) like VMI can make applying to USMA very difficult. When reapplying you can only improve two things from the high school application and that is ACT/SAT and the physical fitness test. The former requires participating in some kind of ACT/SAT prep course while the latter requires time to train for events (i.e. basketball throw) that are not necessarily improved unless you specifically train for them. VMI's requirements may not allow time for either. So you will need a program that provides 1) SAT/ACT prep 2) time to train for the fitness test 3) and a school that offers college level classes that mirror the 4th class year at the academy. A school with an ROTC program may also allow you to show commitment to service, but USMA will need to see higher ACT/SAT scores, higher fitness test scores, and likely all A's in you college level courses. Now which school provides all of that and allows you to pursue an option B if USMA does not work out?
 
The rigors of the first year at any of the Senior Military Colleges (SME) like VMI can make applying to USMA very difficult. When reapplying you can only improve two things from the high school application and that is ACT/SAT and the physical fitness test. The former requires participating in some kind of ACT/SAT prep course while the latter requires time to train for events (i.e. basketball throw) that are not necessarily improved unless you specifically train for them. VMI's requirements may not allow time for either. So you will need a program that provides 1) SAT/ACT prep 2) time to train for the fitness test 3) and a school that offers college level classes that mirror the 4th class year at the academy. A school with an ROTC program may also allow you to show commitment to service, but USMA will need to see higher ACT/SAT scores, higher fitness test scores, and likely all A's in you college level courses. Now which school provides all of that and allows you to pursue an option B if USMA does not work out?
if my ACT or SAT is already high would I need to take them again?
 
Apply to USMA if you are planning on applying again should you not get an appointment. It will aid your application on the second try.
 
The rigors of the first year at any of the Senior Military Colleges (SME) like VMI can make applying to USMA very difficult. When reapplying you can only improve two things from the high school application and that is ACT/SAT and the physical fitness test. The former requires participating in some kind of ACT/SAT prep course while the latter requires time to train for events (i.e. basketball throw) that are not necessarily improved unless you specifically train for them. VMI's requirements may not allow time for either. So you will need a program that provides 1) SAT/ACT prep 2) time to train for the fitness test 3) and a school that offers college level classes that mirror the 4th class year at the academy. A school with an ROTC program may also allow you to show commitment to service, but USMA will need to see higher ACT/SAT scores, higher fitness test scores, and likely all A's in you college level courses. Now which school provides all of that and allows you to pursue an option B if USMA does not work out?
if my ACT or SAT is already high would I need to take them again?
What do you think is high enough? If you are a five star football recruit from an under-represented minority who set up and leads a club to help the homeless your ACT/SATs can be on the lower side of the USMA average. If you are a white male from an affluent part of the country with a varsity letter, great grades and a few leadership positions, then your ACT/SAT better be in the top quarter of all applicants. Where do you fall?
 
The rigors of the first year at any of the Senior Military Colleges (SME) like VMI can make applying to USMA very difficult. When reapplying you can only improve two things from the high school application and that is ACT/SAT and the physical fitness test. The former requires participating in some kind of ACT/SAT prep course while the latter requires time to train for events (i.e. basketball throw) that are not necessarily improved unless you specifically train for them. VMI's requirements may not allow time for either. So you will need a program that provides 1) SAT/ACT prep 2) time to train for the fitness test 3) and a school that offers college level classes that mirror the 4th class year at the academy. A school with an ROTC program may also allow you to show commitment to service, but USMA will need to see higher ACT/SAT scores, higher fitness test scores, and likely all A's in you college level courses. Now which school provides all of that and allows you to pursue an option B if USMA does not work out?
if my ACT or SAT is already high would I need to take them again?
What do you think is high enough? If you are a five star football recruit from an under-represented minority who set up and leads a club to help the homeless your ACT/SATs can be on the lower side of the USMA average. If you are a white male from an affluent part of the country with a varsity letter, great grades and a few leadership positions, then your ACT/SAT better be in the top quarter of all applicants. Where do you fall?
Half Asian Half Jewish with a 30 on the ACT and a lot of extra curriculars
 
The rigors of the first year at any of the Senior Military Colleges (SME) like VMI can make applying to USMA very difficult. When reapplying you can only improve two things from the high school application and that is ACT/SAT and the physical fitness test. The former requires participating in some kind of ACT/SAT prep course while the latter requires time to train for events (i.e. basketball throw) that are not necessarily improved unless you specifically train for them. VMI's requirements may not allow time for either. So you will need a program that provides 1) SAT/ACT prep 2) time to train for the fitness test 3) and a school that offers college level classes that mirror the 4th class year at the academy. A school with an ROTC program may also allow you to show commitment to service, but USMA will need to see higher ACT/SAT scores, higher fitness test scores, and likely all A's in you college level courses. Now which school provides all of that and allows you to pursue an option B if USMA does not work out?
if my ACT or SAT is already high would I need to take them again?
What do you think is high enough? If you are a five star football recruit from an under-represented minority who set up and leads a club to help the homeless your ACT/SATs can be on the lower side of the USMA average. If you are a white male from an affluent part of the country with a varsity letter, great grades and a few leadership positions, then your ACT/SAT better be in the top quarter of all applicants. Where do you fall?
Half Asian Half Jewish with a 30 on the ACT and a lot of extra curriculars
A 30 ACT is not "high", it's entirely average. I don't think being asian or jewish is an advantage - neither are underrepresented minorities.
 
The rigors of the first year at any of the Senior Military Colleges (SME) like VMI can make applying to USMA very difficult. When reapplying you can only improve two things from the high school application and that is ACT/SAT and the physical fitness test. The former requires participating in some kind of ACT/SAT prep course while the latter requires time to train for events (i.e. basketball throw) that are not necessarily improved unless you specifically train for them. VMI's requirements may not allow time for either. So you will need a program that provides 1) SAT/ACT prep 2) time to train for the fitness test 3) and a school that offers college level classes that mirror the 4th class year at the academy. A school with an ROTC program may also allow you to show commitment to service, but USMA will need to see higher ACT/SAT scores, higher fitness test scores, and likely all A's in you college level courses. Now which school provides all of that and allows you to pursue an option B if USMA does not work out?
if my ACT or SAT is already high would I need to take them again?
What do you think is high enough? If you are a five star football recruit from an under-represented minority who set up and leads a club to help the homeless your ACT/SATs can be on the lower side of the USMA average. If you are a white male from an affluent part of the country with a varsity letter, great grades and a few leadership positions, then your ACT/SAT better be in the top quarter of all applicants. Where do you fall?
Half Asian Half Jewish with a 30 on the ACT and a lot of extra curriculars
A 30 ACT is not "high", it's entirely average. I don't think being asian or jewish is an advantage - neither are underrepresented minorities.

I would caveat that with a 30 is about mid range for a service academy it is top 5% among overall test takers which by definition is above average.
 
The rigors of the first year at any of the Senior Military Colleges (SME) like VMI can make applying to USMA very difficult. When reapplying you can only improve two things from the high school application and that is ACT/SAT and the physical fitness test. The former requires participating in some kind of ACT/SAT prep course while the latter requires time to train for events (i.e. basketball throw) that are not necessarily improved unless you specifically train for them. VMI's requirements may not allow time for either. So you will need a program that provides 1) SAT/ACT prep 2) time to train for the fitness test 3) and a school that offers college level classes that mirror the 4th class year at the academy. A school with an ROTC program may also allow you to show commitment to service, but USMA will need to see higher ACT/SAT scores, higher fitness test scores, and likely all A's in you college level courses. Now which school provides all of that and allows you to pursue an option B if USMA does not work out?
if my ACT or SAT is already high would I need to take them again?
What do you think is high enough? If you are a five star football recruit from an under-represented minority who set up and leads a club to help the homeless your ACT/SATs can be on the lower side of the USMA average. If you are a white male from an affluent part of the country with a varsity letter, great grades and a few leadership positions, then your ACT/SAT better be in the top quarter of all applicants. Where do you fall?
Half Asian Half Jewish with a 30 on the ACT and a lot of extra curriculars
A 30 ACT is not "high", it's entirely average. I don't think being asian or jewish is an advantage - neither are underrepresented minorities.

I would caveat that with a 30 is about mid range for a service academy it is top 5% among overall test takers which by definition is above average.
I think its pretty clear we aren't talking about all test takers - we are talking about USMA admissions, where it is entirely average.
 
The rigors of the first year at any of the Senior Military Colleges (SME) like VMI can make applying to USMA very difficult. When reapplying you can only improve two things from the high school application and that is ACT/SAT and the physical fitness test. The former requires participating in some kind of ACT/SAT prep course while the latter requires time to train for events (i.e. basketball throw) that are not necessarily improved unless you specifically train for them. VMI's requirements may not allow time for either. So you will need a program that provides 1) SAT/ACT prep 2) time to train for the fitness test 3) and a school that offers college level classes that mirror the 4th class year at the academy. A school with an ROTC program may also allow you to show commitment to service, but USMA will need to see higher ACT/SAT scores, higher fitness test scores, and likely all A's in you college level courses. Now which school provides all of that and allows you to pursue an option B if USMA does not work out?
if my ACT or SAT is already high would I need to take them again?
What do you think is high enough? If you are a five star football recruit from an under-represented minority who set up and leads a club to help the homeless your ACT/SATs can be on the lower side of the USMA average. If you are a white male from an affluent part of the country with a varsity letter, great grades and a few leadership positions, then your ACT/SAT better be in the top quarter of all applicants. Where do you fall?
Half Asian Half Jewish with a 30 on the ACT and a lot of extra curriculars
Some stats, the 1000th Jewish cadet just graduated from West Point. Also the first graduating West Point class in 1802 was 50% Jewish. However, there were only two graduates
 
The rigors of the first year at any of the Senior Military Colleges (SME) like VMI can make applying to USMA very difficult. When reapplying you can only improve two things from the high school application and that is ACT/SAT and the physical fitness test. The former requires participating in some kind of ACT/SAT prep course while the latter requires time to train for events (i.e. basketball throw) that are not necessarily improved unless you specifically train for them. VMI's requirements may not allow time for either. So you will need a program that provides 1) SAT/ACT prep 2) time to train for the fitness test 3) and a school that offers college level classes that mirror the 4th class year at the academy. A school with an ROTC program may also allow you to show commitment to service, but USMA will need to see higher ACT/SAT scores, higher fitness test scores, and likely all A's in you college level courses. Now which school provides all of that and allows you to pursue an option B if USMA does not work out?
if my ACT or SAT is already high would I need to take them again?
What do you think is high enough? If you are a five star football recruit from an under-represented minority who set up and leads a club to help the homeless your ACT/SATs can be on the lower side of the USMA average. If you are a white male from an affluent part of the country with a varsity letter, great grades and a few leadership positions, then your ACT/SAT better be in the top quarter of all applicants. Where do you fall?
Half Asian Half Jewish with a 30 on the ACT and a lot of extra curriculars
Some stats, the 1000th Jewish cadet just graduated from West Point. Also the first graduating West Point class in 1802 was 50% Jewish. However, there were only two graduates
When looking at stats mixed race makes up only 2.6 percent or something
 
The rigors of the first year at any of the Senior Military Colleges (SME) like VMI can make applying to USMA very difficult. When reapplying you can only improve two things from the high school application and that is ACT/SAT and the physical fitness test. The former requires participating in some kind of ACT/SAT prep course while the latter requires time to train for events (i.e. basketball throw) that are not necessarily improved unless you specifically train for them. VMI's requirements may not allow time for either. So you will need a program that provides 1) SAT/ACT prep 2) time to train for the fitness test 3) and a school that offers college level classes that mirror the 4th class year at the academy. A school with an ROTC program may also allow you to show commitment to service, but USMA will need to see higher ACT/SAT scores, higher fitness test scores, and likely all A's in you college level courses. Now which school provides all of that and allows you to pursue an option B if USMA does not work out?
if my ACT or SAT is already high would I need to take them again?
What do you think is high enough? If you are a five star football recruit from an under-represented minority who set up and leads a club to help the homeless your ACT/SATs can be on the lower side of the USMA average. If you are a white male from an affluent part of the country with a varsity letter, great grades and a few leadership positions, then your ACT/SAT better be in the top quarter of all applicants. Where do you fall?
Half Asian Half Jewish with a 30 on the ACT and a lot of extra curriculars
Some stats, the 1000th Jewish cadet just graduated from West Point. Also the first graduating West Point class in 1802 was 50% Jewish. However, there were only two graduates
When looking at stats mixed race makes up only 2.6 percent or something
I don’t know if USMA considers Jews a race. It’s a religion. The issue isn’t whether you belong to a racial minority, it’s whether you are an underrepresented minority. Asians definitely aren’t under represented in higher education in general, nor at USMA in particular, so no boost in admissions. Native Americans and African Americans, women and other minorities that are under represented do receive a boost in admissions.
 
The rigors of the first year at any of the Senior Military Colleges (SME) like VMI can make applying to USMA very difficult. When reapplying you can only improve two things from the high school application and that is ACT/SAT and the physical fitness test. The former requires participating in some kind of ACT/SAT prep course while the latter requires time to train for events (i.e. basketball throw) that are not necessarily improved unless you specifically train for them. VMI's requirements may not allow time for either. So you will need a program that provides 1) SAT/ACT prep 2) time to train for the fitness test 3) and a school that offers college level classes that mirror the 4th class year at the academy. A school with an ROTC program may also allow you to show commitment to service, but USMA will need to see higher ACT/SAT scores, higher fitness test scores, and likely all A's in you college level courses. Now which school provides all of that and allows you to pursue an option B if USMA does not work out?
if my ACT or SAT is already high would I need to take them again?
What do you think is high enough? If you are a five star football recruit from an under-represented minority who set up and leads a club to help the homeless your ACT/SATs can be on the lower side of the USMA average. If you are a white male from an affluent part of the country with a varsity letter, great grades and a few leadership positions, then your ACT/SAT better be in the top quarter of all applicants. Where do you fall?
Half Asian Half Jewish with a 30 on the ACT and a lot of extra curriculars
Lots of candidates have lots of extra-curricular activities. The current ACT composite 25-75 percentile for USMA is 27-32. Unless you have something special that USMA does not have a lot of then you need to be at 32 or greater.
 
I am currently applying for the class of 2024 and I don't think my chances are very good. I really want to go to West Point and be a Infantry Officer, so I have been debating whether I should apply to VMI and try apply first year or go to GreyStone Prep and apply again. What would be some positives and negatives of both options?

From your previous posts it sounded like you were also applying to the USNA, is that still the case. Also I assume that you just finished your junior year of HS.

Below looks to be your stats at the end of your junior year although from what you have posted your ACT has improved to a score of 30.
You should always apply if WP is a goal of yours, the only way you are assured of not getting an appointment is to not apply. That being said you should always have a Plan B....C and even D when you start this process. Some have already given you ideas for back ups but I would stress that you should also apply for the AROTC Scholarship as well. I agree that you should select a school that you feel you can best succeed and one that you can afford if you do not get an appointment or scholarship. Pick a school that you could see yourself attending for 4 years, don't pick a school simply as a stepping stone to WP because frankly the cards are stacked a bit against you. A 3.2 GPA will not be that impressive, the ACT is average for WP, you have athletics but from what you listed you were not a Captain of any team, you have some leadership but it less then the average for most applicants. It sounds like you have been doing well academically for the last couple years, that's good and keep it up, those habits will be needed when you start college.

Unweighted gpa 3.2
Weighted gpa 3.7
Sat 1240
Act 26
Class rank 121 of 475
Plan on retaking both tests until I get an adequate score
Varsity water polo for two years
Varsity swim for one
In a local politics academy at my high school
Boys state delagate
Founder and president of an anti bullying club at my high school
Vice President of key club
Intern for my congressmen and state senator
I’ve taken all the hardest classes my school has to offfer since sophomore year
Since the second semester of my sophmore year when I realized I wanted to attend an academy I’ve had above a 4.0 weighted gpa but my freshman year had dragged me down already


I can't stress enough having a solid plan B, most of the applicants to SA's have that plan B well thought out.
You mention in your post that you want to be an Infantry Officer, that's a great goal and it's a goal you can achieve in different ways. The importance of selecting a college with AROTC as a back up is great, choose one that is a good fit. The reason for this is that while you absolutely re-apply for WP if you don't get an appointment the first time, you would still be able to participate in AROTC. You will then have a decision to make if you get an appointment, go to WP and start over with a fresh new 4 years or continue with AROTC and commission in 3 years. Many re-apply and head off to WP, some decide to stay with AROTC, that's a decision only you can make. The biggest part of selecting the right school is in case you do not get an appointment the second go around, if that happens then you are already at a good school and have completed one year of AROTC and are the path to a commission. The end result can be reaching your goal of Infantry Officer if you work hard.

Don't put all your eggs in one basket and keep your eye on what is actually your goal.
 
I am currently applying for the class of 2024 and I don't think my chances are very good. I really want to go to West Point and be a Infantry Officer, so I have been debating whether I should apply to VMI and try apply first year or go to GreyStone Prep and apply again. What would be some positives and negatives of both options?

From your previous posts it sounded like you were also applying to the USNA, is that still the case. Also I assume that you just finished your junior year of HS.

Below looks to be your stats at the end of your junior year although from what you have posted your ACT has improved to a score of 30.
You should always apply if WP is a goal of yours, the only way you are assured of not getting an appointment is to not apply. That being said you should always have a Plan B....C and even D when you start this process. Some have already given you ideas for back ups but I would stress that you should also apply for the AROTC Scholarship as well. I agree that you should select a school that you feel you can best succeed and one that you can afford if you do not get an appointment or scholarship. Pick a school that you could see yourself attending for 4 years, don't pick a school simply as a stepping stone to WP because frankly the cards are stacked a bit against you. A 3.2 GPA will not be that impressive, the ACT is average for WP, you have athletics but from what you listed you were not a Captain of any team, you have some leadership but it less then the average for most applicants. It sounds like you have been doing well academically for the last couple years, that's good and keep it up, those habits will be needed when you start college.

Unweighted gpa 3.2
Weighted gpa 3.7
Sat 1240
Act 26
Class rank 121 of 475
Plan on retaking both tests until I get an adequate score
Varsity water polo for two years
Varsity swim for one
In a local politics academy at my high school
Boys state delagate
Founder and president of an anti bullying club at my high school
Vice President of key club
Intern for my congressmen and state senator
I’ve taken all the hardest classes my school has to offfer since sophomore year
Since the second semester of my sophmore year when I realized I wanted to attend an academy I’ve had above a 4.0 weighted gpa but my freshman year had dragged me down already


I can't stress enough having a solid plan B, most of the applicants to SA's have that plan B well thought out.
You mention in your post that you want to be an Infantry Officer, that's a great goal and it's a goal you can achieve in different ways. The importance of selecting a college with AROTC as a back up is great, choose one that is a good fit. The reason for this is that while you absolutely re-apply for WP if you don't get an appointment the first time, you would still be able to participate in AROTC. You will then have a decision to make if you get an appointment, go to WP and start over with a fresh new 4 years or continue with AROTC and commission in 3 years. Many re-apply and head off to WP, some decide to stay with AROTC, that's a decision only you can make. The biggest part of selecting the right school is in case you do not get an appointment the second go around, if that happens then you are already at a good school and have completed one year of AROTC and are the path to a commission. The end result can be reaching your goal of Infantry Officer if you work hard.

Don't put all your eggs in one basket and keep your eye on what is actually your goal.
I don’t know how much I can thank you for putting time into giving a response that felt really tangible. Currently my second choice is VMI but going to any of the three academys seems like such a great opportunity that re applying would be worth it. I feel bad because I feel like I spam this forum but going to the academy has been a goal for a while and I want as much feedback as possible. So thank you so much for giving such good feedback. Thanks.
 
If you do not apply, you will not be accepted. Make a plan: Apply to USMA (and any other service academy you would like to attend) and apply for Army ROTC and whatever colleges you wish to attend. If you get into USMA on this attempt, then kudos; otherwise, you can reapply next year and you will know how to do it, what your weaknesses are, and have an additional year of school to prepare you for whatever comes next. If you apply, you may also get fully funded prep school or USMAPS. If you do not apply, you will never know. Start planning your application process now. Build a spread sheet with schools, nomination sources, and ROTC down the first row and then have rows of Admissions deadline, SAT scores sent, letters of recommendation, CFA, etc.
The only way to know if your test score is good enough is to apply.
Also, are you registered for the first SAT or ACT in September? You should be.
 
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