Which of the academies requires a security clearance for admissions? I always thought that security clearances were used for the top military intelligence folks.
Security Clearance
- Thread starter Exar Ganis
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I did something stupid when I was 15. One of the wise guys from around the neighborhood had a collection of hood ornaments that he so-called "collected". He started giving some away to neighborhood folks and gave me one with a bmw crest on it. Apparently this was one that he stole from a car a couple miles away. A military police investigator wanted to talk to the neighborhood kids about it to find out who was responsible for taking all these ornaments. I voluntarily went to the station to give him my report, and on this report he cited me as "received stolen property". I wasn't arrested, nor was I fingerprinted, or charged with anything. They did recommend a couple hours of community service, but the base commander wouldn't allow it because of my honesty and cooperation "voluntarily". I'm not sure if I would ever put this down on any job application because this is definitely a juvenile record. However, I think... if you apply for a security clearance they have the capability to check your juvenile record. Now from the best of my knowledge, I'm not even so sure what happened to that file. It was on an overseas military garrison, so I know for sure it would be in any records within the U.S. or any state/county.
So Basically.. my question:
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When do they do the security clearance, and what do they want to know?
So Basically.. my question:
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When do they do the security clearance, and what do they want to know?
ChipAyten
10-Year Member
For ROTC before you receive a penny in benefits or tuition you submit your security clearance Application, because the process of granting you a secret clearance takes a while they may give you a preliminary thumbs up or down so you may start receiving money. i am not exactly sure about the academies.
Your situation is nothing to worry about. If you were not arrested nor charged with anything you do not have a record thus do not need a waiver or anything of the sort. So in that instance you're good. But yes when joining the military or defense contractor you must disclose any and all formal criminal proceedings brought against you. Juvenile, Sealed, Expunged. It does not matter, you must disclose it. And it makes no sense to hide it because eventually down the line they will find out. You have to understand the military operates as a separate society from civilians with its own code of law (UCMJ) which is why such policies that may be deemed unconstitutional or illegal in the civilian world are allowed within the military. And just a hint, if you ever do get into trouble and you have your record sealed or expunged, it is just sealed or expunged from public record and can not be used in court later on, but any government agency can easily find out about your past.
The military understands people make mistakes sometimes and does grant waivers, more so now in the Army and Marine Corps to meet quotas. You can still get a secret security clearance/waiver if you do not have a chronic history of criminality and what you did do was a misdemeanor or some sort of minor offense. Note that each branch has their own definitions of what a misdemeanor/felony is for each offense which may differ from each states own statute.
Some things that are greatly or minimally taken into account when granting a secret security clearance. (Required for commission)
U.S. citizen
Claim residence within United States for prior X years
Dual Citizenship (PM me if you need more info here. Because I fell into this category, annoying goddam process)
No vested foreign interests
Foreign Travel
Registration with Selective Service
Foreign Family ties/ Family Citizenship
Criminal History (as explained above)
Credit History
Employment Records
Honesty in completing application. Lets be real here the information requested can be obtained by the military with a few phone calls. The real purpose of the application is to gauge your honesty and speed up the process. So don't lie.
So moral of the story, don't F up, and if you already did, show you've made an effort to be a better person.
Good Luck.
Especially when you have asked a legal forum the same question. I was sitting in a teacher's meeting yesterday when the legal department was warning us about what we put on the internet, because in this day and age, whatever we put, a student will find it. The same applies for candidates for the service academies.
Not totally up to speed on clearances but what Chip says about the process causes me to think that he has done his homework. However, I do agree that you have nothing to worry about.Exar_Ganis said:
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I miswrote something above. When you are cited with possession of stolen property, you are also charged. How ironic that they do this to me when I openly came forward to them. I've contacted a JAG officer and he is in charge of expunging records. Doesn't that mean that the file will be completely destroyed? And my question was... at what point does the respective service academy require you to obtain a security clearance? Isn't this before your commission, or do they do it during the admissions process (before acceptances)
And my response was, see #3 above.
I doubt that.
In my day we definitely had a CONFIDENTIAL clearance because we were issued copies of ATP-1C. In my case, I remember being one of the few with a SECRET clearance because I had signed on for a sub cruise, and that came only about a month before Herndon.
No idea how it works today, though.
BTW, at no time during my 5 years dealing with USNA did I hear anything similar to HAVING to get a clearance to attend the Academy. In short, if you are not able to get a CONFIDENTIAL clearance, you aren't going to be able to be eligible for USxA anyway. The clearance process will begin automatically either during or immediately after admission, and again I suspect that everyone goes in with an automatic CONFIDENTIAL clearance based upon the review conducted during the admissions process.
Depends upon the level of clearance. A CONFIDENTIAL will be granted with as little as a credit check, citizenship check, and criminal background check. SECRET will require more, TOP SECRET even more, and above that it gets VERY VERY intense.
It is unlikely that, in an average career, any military person will need to see more than TOP SECRET. Intel, SPECOPS, and Subs are possible/probable exceptions.
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My father has a top secret one, and he said he never remembered any section that concerned juvenile charges, but then again, things change.
Now... about the confidential clearance. Does that have the power to go through juvenile records/ expunged or sealed? Does both the academy and ROTC use that?
I was looking at a form : http://usmilitary.about.com/library/pdf/sf86.pdf
I looked at the area where it said "police records" and I noticed that they never asked about juvenile records. They do say "past seven years" but that sounds like it is referring to those that were obviously active duty since they mentioned "military court of justice".
Now... about the confidential clearance. Does that have the power to go through juvenile records/ expunged or sealed? Does both the academy and ROTC use that?
I was looking at a form : http://usmilitary.about.com/library/pdf/sf86.pdf
I looked at the area where it said "police records" and I noticed that they never asked about juvenile records. They do say "past seven years" but that sounds like it is referring to those that were obviously active duty since they mentioned "military court of justice".
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Exar Ganis, if you get accepted to an academy, you'll get the security paperwork & it would be in your best interest just to tell your story, explaining it just like you did here. I don't think it will raise much of an eyebrow.
Son is 2nd class & has been through 3 security checks to date. Military Sealift did the most recent one before he'd set foot on one of their ships. This will be an ongoing process with different levels & different government agencies as he continues towards his career & after. He'd had a speeding ticket once doing 55 in a 35 zone. He was honest about it. Didn't hurt his paperwork from processing.
Son is 2nd class & has been through 3 security checks to date. Military Sealift did the most recent one before he'd set foot on one of their ships. This will be an ongoing process with different levels & different government agencies as he continues towards his career & after. He'd had a speeding ticket once doing 55 in a 35 zone. He was honest about it. Didn't hurt his paperwork from processing.
I actually have no problem explaining the situation to the Government and for security clearance issues, BUT, I would second-guess it if you do that as part of your admissions process for the academy. I know for fact, that if it is part of the admissions process, they'd sack me despite the innocuousness of the incident. Can someone clarify this though. Where does the background check come into play? (Is the Confidential Security Clearance the one required by the academy... or Secret? And how different are they?)
I'm just wondering if they do a background check as the admissions process goes along, or if they do that nearing commission... or for special programs like Zaphod mentioned above. I feel like killing myself already. I didn't even realize that the rotc scholarships ALSO DQ you for having a juvenile offense. You have to go through waivers for that.
Does ROTC require a background check for a scholarship as well?
DOES the academy require a background check for an appointment?
I got suddenly riled up when I saw this on the USNA online application... It was cleverly done when they mentioned (expunged.. sealed etc.) If they run a confidential security clearance... do they do a background check too? Or is it less serious than I think.
I'm just wondering if they do a background check as the admissions process goes along, or if they do that nearing commission... or for special programs like Zaphod mentioned above. I feel like killing myself already. I didn't even realize that the rotc scholarships ALSO DQ you for having a juvenile offense. You have to go through waivers for that.
Does ROTC require a background check for a scholarship as well?
DOES the academy require a background check for an appointment?
I got suddenly riled up when I saw this on the USNA online application... It was cleverly done when they mentioned (expunged.. sealed etc.) If they run a confidential security clearance... do they do a background check too? Or is it less serious than I think.
Yikes! What are doin' there... trying out palm reading? LOL Slow down on turning your mole hill into a mountain. Seriously, I think you'll be ok. Just put it down on your application so that it doesn't come back & bite you in the butt later. They don't run the security check until after you get an appointment. And its not like you were a little Al Capone or a baby bank robber. Don't sweat it by doing the right thing & writing down exactly what happened.
ChipAyten
10-Year Member
A confidential security clearance is given for enlistment, its requirements are the least stringent. You do not even have to be a U.S. citizen, just a legal permanent resident. Thus why immigrant aliens are allowed to enlist. I believe all commissions and most re-enlistments require a secret clearance. For that you need to be a non dual U.S. Citizen. Which is why immigrant aliens are put on the fast track to citizenship when they enlist. A top secret clearance is required for certain job fields, officer or nco. Some of these are Military Intelligence, USSOCOM, pretty much anything that deals with information, the gathering and analyzing of it. Although it says in the past 7 years you'd have to tell them about it anyway. Understand that the security clearance is granted by DoD and civilians also have security clearances which is why they only check back 7 years. But to commission into your branch you will need a waiver since you were arrested and for that there is no limit on how deep they can check into your records. Sealed Expunged or juvenile.
I will state and emphasize this again, Expunged, and Sealed records are only "invisible" to civilian public record. The military and government can have full access to this information.
I will state and emphasize this again, Expunged, and Sealed records are only "invisible" to civilian public record. The military and government can have full access to this information.
EG, I think I finally follow your concern. You are not concerned that the activities will prevent a security clearance but feel that if the admissions board saw them, they would deny you admission. Again disclose them freely. You will get the clearance request package after you have been granted admissions. Just ensure that you are totally open on it and you will have not problems.
USNA69, that is exactly what I'm thinking as well. Would the academy slam dunk me if I wasn't open with it during admissions, but open on it during the confidential security clearance? Who handles the security clearance: DoD or does the Academy itself have a lot of investigating on its part as well. In other words... if I put this incident down on the Security questionnaire, will the academy be able to read it also, or is this not within their field? I just thought that if they had a part in conducting confidential clearances, they may see an inconsistency.
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I'm not sure if I feel you about the expungement, Chip. From what I heard here, getting an expungement shreds your record entirely. I just don't know what other outlet could possibly store the file.
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I'm not sure if I feel you about the expungement, Chip. From what I heard here, getting an expungement shreds your record entirely. I just don't know what other outlet could possibly store the file.
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ChipAyten
10-Year Member
Sorry if i sound arrogant here, but I'm right and you're wrong. It exists somewhere.
And honesty is a direct indicator of morality. It would behoove you to tell the academy about it now rather than finding out you hid it from them later. And its nothing to feel bad about. You just made an honest mistake, in fact I dont even think commited any crime there. The admissions board will see this too.
Yup. We've got a tempest in a teacup, here. Unless you committed murder or were caught smuggling drugs or something, chances are they've seen similar profiles come through the place.
Relax and answer the questions honestly and let the chips fall.
My case would be considered an infraction, right? Not a misdemeanor or anything overly serious? Can someone answer my question about the confidential clearance above. Thanks.
Have you ever been cited, arrested, convicted or fined for any
violation of any law or ordinance? If Yes, complete
the section below. (Required)
Include any cases in which the record may have been expunged or sealed, including juvenile records. NOTE: FAILURE TO REPORT ANY SUCH INCIDENT MAY BE GROUNDS FOR WITHDRAWAL OF AN OFFER OR AN APPOINTMENT OR MAY SUBSEQUENTLY RESULT IN DISMISSAL FROM USNA. A police record check is required if you are offered an appointment. A complete background investigation will be made if selected as a Midshipman for purposes of granting a Security Clearance.
Give a complete description of the incident(s). State where and when each incident occurred, the nature of the offense(s) and the date and disposition of the case(s). Your application will not be evaluated unless a complete description of the incident is provided.
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See this is what I'm trying to figure out. A police record check is required, but I highly doubt its extensive like a confidential clearance. A complete background investigation will be done if you are selected as a midshipman, but aren't those conducted by a different organization, and would not conflict with what I put down to the academy themselves?
violation of any law or ordinance? If Yes, complete
the section below. (Required)
Include any cases in which the record may have been expunged or sealed, including juvenile records. NOTE: FAILURE TO REPORT ANY SUCH INCIDENT MAY BE GROUNDS FOR WITHDRAWAL OF AN OFFER OR AN APPOINTMENT OR MAY SUBSEQUENTLY RESULT IN DISMISSAL FROM USNA. A police record check is required if you are offered an appointment. A complete background investigation will be made if selected as a Midshipman for purposes of granting a Security Clearance.
Give a complete description of the incident(s). State where and when each incident occurred, the nature of the offense(s) and the date and disposition of the case(s). Your application will not be evaluated unless a complete description of the incident is provided.
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See this is what I'm trying to figure out. A police record check is required, but I highly doubt its extensive like a confidential clearance. A complete background investigation will be done if you are selected as a midshipman, but aren't those conducted by a different organization, and would not conflict with what I put down to the academy themselves?
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