Semper Gumby -yuck!

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I'm thinking Blackhawk mom might be feeling kind of beat up by some of the passionate postings in this thread. Like many of the SA moms, I think she needed to vent. I hope having done so that she knows she did a great job raising a fine son, and that all will turn out well. The West Point moms have a facebook support group for such venting; I hope the Navy moms do as well...if not, maybe someone can start one soon. Hang in there, mom! :thumb:
 
I hope all parents feel they can come to these forums for venting and seeking solutions. I am a USNA Mom....and the idea of a facebook page to vent on does not move me. I appreciate very much the fact that here we have current and former mids, BGO's, etc. as well as parents to guide us through this process.

Some folks do gain more from venting than I do. Too often, it disintgrates into whining with no solutions offered.

This whole SA thing is tough, no doubt about that. When it gets me down, I go outside, get some fresh air, shed a few tears if necessary. Comisserating with my mid will only hurt him and not help me at all! Focusing on the positive is the best possible solution.
 
....and the idea of a facebook page to vent on does not move me. .


While there is a good bit of venting from time to time, we also reach out to stranded cadets at airports, meet up w/ each other at tailgates, and let the more experienced moms help the newbs. It works for many of us. While it's not for everyone, it does fill a need (real or imagined) for many a mom. :rolleyes:
 
I like the idea of using facebook to reach out to stranded cadets at airports.......my mid has not gotten stranded, but has found that the uniform is a powerful thing. He has yet to have to pay for a ride from Baltimore to Annapolis. He has ridden with firsties, alums, Annapolis residents, etc.

I don't mean to be down on the facebook idea, but sometimes it seems there are some parents who are very into the "woe is me" syndrome and probably don't need to be encouraged! But if it works for some........better, FAR better, than dragging your cadet, mid, into the conversation about how awful things are!
 
This is a true example of conflicting advice. We get it all the time ---one is saying FB FB FB its a perfect place for help. The next is saying what ever you do dont do facebook.

Works great for some doesnt work for others-such is life -this is a true fact.

Anyone can see FB that is involved with the academy. If you say or do the wrong thing it will splatter on your mid. I will tell you guys this-----no way i would go on FB being as there is no profile with any info on who i am in here or who my mid is there is no way i would go on FB so my mid could be figured out.

Some may have figured it out already ( and to my great friends on here who know me personally and would never let their mids know any of this -thank you- i would be insane by now without you) but there are those who seem to take pride in bashing and pouring salt into wounds. With the bashing i get here i could only imagine the mids that feel as some of you do would make his life a living-h--l.

The sins of the mother being visited on the child so to speak. These are 100% my feelings and not always my mids. He is fine ,making friends and adjusting however slowly. He just has set backs in figuring it all out and moving forward. Normal in the process.

Plebes who try to befriend firsties and other upperclassmen on FB get drilled all the time. Loose privileges and get extra rates etc----no way will i do anything to add crap to his adjustment.

Looks like there really isnt anywhere to get guidance and vent or help.
No offence people i can understand you need all sides of a situation to make solid and informed decisions or reflections and yes perceptions but --man is there nothing black and white where the military is concerned?

I am truly the dumbest civilian alive. I feel like i have been thrown into open heart surgery and expected to operate and my profession is really law.
C L U E L E SS-------and obviously sadistic.
 
This is a true example of conflicting advice. We get it all the time ---one is saying FB FB FB its a perfect place for help. The next is saying what ever you do dont do facebook.

Works great for some doesnt work for others-such is life -this is a true fact.

Anyone can see FB that is involved with the academy. If you say or do the wrong thing it will splatter on your mid. I will tell you guys this-----no way i would go on FB being as there is no profile with any info on who i am in here or who my mid is there is no way i would go on FB so my mid could be figured out.

Some may have figured it out already ( and to my great friends on here who know me personally and would never let their mids know any of this -thank you- i would be insane by now without you) but there are those who seem to take pride in bashing and pouring salt into wounds. With the bashing i get here i could only imagine the mids that feel as some of you do would make his life a living-h--l.

The sins of the mother being visited on the child so to speak. These are 100% my feelings and not always my mids. He is fine ,making friends and adjusting however slowly. He just has set backs in figuring it all out and moving forward. Normal in the process.

Plebes who try to befriend firsties and other upperclassmen on FB get drilled all the time. Loose privileges and get extra rates etc----no way will i do anything to add crap to his adjustment.

Looks like there really isnt anywhere to get guidance and vent or help.
No offence people i can understand you need all sides of a situation to make solid and informed decisions or reflections and yes perceptions but --man is there nothing black and white where the military is concerned?

I am truly the dumbest civilian alive. I feel like i have been thrown into open heart surgery and expected to operate and my profession is really law.
C L U E L E SS-------and obviously sadistic.

Many things about the military are black & white, but this issue is not a military issue. It's an issue of your perceptions and feelings about USNA. That is a critical distinction in this case.
 
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BHmom: No one is bashing you. Rather, several have offered suggestions that you try to be more positive. Perhaps even trying to get you to look at the situation differently. Sorry you see it as bashing. Best of luck iwth the rest of your mids career.
 
Thank you Jennyp--looking at a positive and reflecting on that is sound advice.

scoutpilot---
"Many things about the military are black & white, but this issue is not a military issue. It's an issue of your perceptions and feelings about USNA. That is a critical distinction in this case."

What the FB comment--not true that is black and white fact. And it is very much a military issue considering it is based on a military academy discretion between companies and we were well informed they are government property as of now.

I dont have an issue with USNA it is a honor and a privilege to even be considered let alone accepted.

My feelings are of pride my mid is even there. That pride outweighs my motherly tendencies even when i dont like it---i'm learning and adjusting.

Your perception and my perception are based on where and what we are going though at this time in ours lives-two distinct differences.

I do however have an issue --it is the perception of differences with in the academy and the fact is -it is and always will be that way.

Let me ask a military distinctive question---if all mids/cadets or whatever are all going through the exact same proven to be effective system guarenteed to provide the different branches exempliary officers--why are there different punishments for different companies. Why dont they punished the whole academy -if it is supposed to be all about the unit and brotherhood?

If they all go through the same drills and are expected to be unified and depend on each other completely -answer and be advised only to and by the people who require they be addressed by sir or mam--why such different distinctions?

When an enlisted is at basic do they let one group do things and train with weapons they do not allow others to be trained with?
 
ok so that post was unnecessary-scoutpilot im guessing and if im wrong tell me----

you are mid 20's not married and no children--am i right

the reason i say this is our difference of situational perceptions seem to come from different planets

I'm seeing :
a non military vs military
a parent vs -non parent
a never been there academy person vs an academy person
a civilian vs an active officer

that alone is a argument waiting to happen due to the fact we are not in each others shoes.

all i'm saying is if we can agree to disagree and look at all sides then make our decisions and perceptions we can better discuss situations as they come up.

I respect you -what you are doing for our country and what you have experienced
now try to respect me for the questioning mom that i am and help me understand what and why.
 
This is a true example of conflicting advice. We get it all the time ---one is saying FB FB FB its a perfect place for help. The next is saying what ever you do dont do facebook.

About FB...I never put on my regular FB account what I don't want the world (including my cadet) to see. The USMA mom page is more for Q and A...plebe and parent net got a little snarky over the last couple of years, so questions were asked on FB. Now USMA has a parent FB page where answers are given by a USMA source. The mom's page is more of a "what did you do when your cadet needed/wanted/said X?" We share airfare bargains, recipes, boodle ideas, etc...and sometimes we gripe! You get to know moms going through the same heartaches and joys as you. I would be surprised if there was not already something similar out there for USNA.

I like to think the FB page is pretty secure, but one never really knows...it's not called "The World Wide Web" for nothing. :cool:
 
ok so that post was unnecessary-scoutpilot im guessing and if im wrong tell me----

you are mid 20's not married and no children--am i right

Actually I am in the waning months of my 20s. Today is my 2nd anniversary. I have spent neither of them with my wife. Thank you, though, for supposing you know my story.

Believe it or not, I have a mother. I was a cadet once, years ago when the grey jackets were purple and cadets wore BDUs. Thus, I know a thing or two about cadet angst and the complaints parents hear.

I'm sorry to say that the rest of your post is indecipherable gibberish. I haven't the foggiest idea of what point you're making. Are you trying to compare the fact that some parents live far away and don't see their kids when last-minute liberty is given to weapons training in basic combat training? I really have no idea what you're talking about.

Different punishments exist for a variety of reasons. Each commander has discretion over how punishments are handled, if he has the ability to handle the offense at his level. His policies are clearly articulated in his command philosophy.

But honestly, I haven't a clue what you're talking about at this point.
 
Plebes who try to befriend firsties and other upperclassmen on FB get drilled all the time. Loose privileges and get extra rates etc----no way will i do anything to add crap to his adjustment.
First off, I cannot imagine why a plebe would want to befriend a firstie. Unless things have changed drastically, the class distinction system demands separation and any plebe who crosses that boundary uninvited is asking for grief. Something that should have been ingrained in them the first day.

I do however have an issue --it is the perception of differences with in the academy and the fact is -it is and always will be that way.

Let me ask a military distinctive question---if all mids/cadets or whatever are all going through the exact same proven to be effective system guaranteed to provide the different branches exempliary officers--why are there different punishments for different companies. Why dont they punished the whole academy -if it is supposed to be all about the unit and brotherhood?

If they all go through the same drills and are expected to be unified and depend on each other completely -answer and be advised only to and by the people who require they be addressed by sir or mam--why such different distinctions?

When an enlisted is at basic do they let one group do things and train with weapons they do not allow others to be trained with?

In the Navy, within what is really a very short time after graduating, officers will be expected to take their SEAL team, their jet, their division, their ship, or their submarine over the horizon for extended periods of time and make decisions on their own. This demands a special type of leadership and a special type of training to achieve that leadership.

First off, at USNA, if one person made all the decisions, that would deprive all the others of the decision making process. If one person made all the decisions, it would deprive those being affected of the comparative evaluation of the results of those decisions by observing their shipmates in a sister unit. And USNA is first and foremost, a leadership lab.

Additionally, the leader of any Naval unit bears tremendous responsibility and accountability. With that comes the demand for total loyalty from each and every one under them. These precepts are grown and nourished in the leadership lab that is USNA. Therefore, standardization between units which would require a tremendous amount of management and effort is not even a priority.

The result is units that are totally unique. When an Ensign walks down the pier and walks up the brow to his first ship, the one across the pier could, and probably is, a totally different atmosphere. His could change overnight from good to bad. Naval units are living breathing homogenous units, each unique in its own way and each capable of change depending on the dynamics of its leaders.

I read something recently that, due to the increased focus on smaller units in the Army that USMA is changing some of its leadership training to produce a more independent thinking graduate.
 
But-there is still the homesickness thing. That is the only thing making him still question his appointment. They need to be home while school is in session to see they are forgotten and its time to move on you can't go back. Holidays wont do this sure they will see family sleep in a real bed and hug Grandma but---it isnt the same.

Blackhawkmom, I have puzzled and puzzled over one of your statements in your first post. So you want your mid to come home so he can see that everyone has forgotten him and it's time to move on? Good grief! How do you figure that will help with his homesickness? He isn't forgotten---his classmates and friends are busy with their new lives too. I would think that he could squeeze in some visits to friends while on leave and he will be pleasantly surprised that old friendships are easily rekindled.

My cadet came home over Columbus Day for the first time since June. He saw lots of friends and I even saw him for a few minutes too!:smile: While we were delighted to have him home, I had to come to the realization that this was HIS time off and he had to "recharge his batteries" in a way that would benefit him when he returned to West Point. He doesn't really belong to me anymore, he belongs to Uncle Sam. Yes, I miss him terribly but my job has now changed to cheerleader and I'm no longer the head coach.

One of the things I have learned from the parents of upperclassmen at West Point is that you have to encourage your cadet to take "small bites." Sure Thanksgiving is still a long way away, but the weekend is close! Encourage him to narrow his focus instead of looking at the whole overwhelming picture. I certainly wouldn't dwell on being homesick in your phone calls and I would definitely temper my feelings by saying something like, "We are really looking forward to seeing you soon!" instead of the more dramatic and depressing, "We miss you SO MUCH!" It is just better to keep it upbeat. You said he is doing very well academically and making good friends---that is great! Those are great small bites that will help eat away at the semester!

I have finally realized that I was really only guaranteed my kids for 18 years. I have pride in knowing that they have stepped out into the world and feel pretty confident that they can succeed. If they need reassurance, Mom is there for them, but I always turn them back around and send them back out the door. It's their time now.
 
This is a true example of conflicting advice. We get it all the time ---one is saying FB FB FB its a perfect place for help. The next is saying what ever you do dont do facebook.

Works great for some doesnt work for others-such is life -this is a true fact.

Anyone can see FB that is involved with the academy. If you say or do the wrong thing it will splatter on your mid. I will tell you guys this-----no way i would go on FB being as there is no profile with any info on who i am in here or who my mid is there is no way i would go on FB so my mid could be figured out.

Some may have figured it out already ( and to my great friends on here who know me personally and would never let their mids know any of this -thank you- i would be insane by now without you) but there are those who seem to take pride in bashing and pouring salt into wounds. With the bashing i get here i could only imagine the mids that feel as some of you do would make his life a living-h--l.

The sins of the mother being visited on the child so to speak. These are 100% my feelings and not always my mids. He is fine ,making friends and adjusting however slowly. He just has set backs in figuring it all out and moving forward. Normal in the process.

Plebes who try to befriend firsties and other upperclassmen on FB get drilled all the time. Loose privileges and get extra rates etc----no way will i do anything to add crap to his adjustment.

Looks like there really isnt anywhere to get guidance and vent or help.
No offence people i can understand you need all sides of a situation to make solid and informed decisions or reflections and yes perceptions but --man is there nothing black and white where the military is concerned?

I am truly the dumbest civilian alive. I feel like i have been thrown into open heart surgery and expected to operate and my profession is really law.
C L U E L E SS-------and obviously sadistic.

There must be a bigger issue that the majority of us are not understanding in your posts. I honestly do not think that this is simply about the fact that the mids got weekend liberty. This is a very negative post and I honestly do not understand it. I try to stay positive for my son. I refuse to buy into any idea that he is government property or being harmed in any way by what the USNA is trying to instill in him and the other mids. It is tough, but why wouldn't it be? But, where else could you get to go and cheer with pride for your football team when they play against Notre Dame? It is time to think about all of the things he is experiencing, not the things he is missing out on.
 
There must be a bigger issue that the majority of us are not understanding in your posts...........It is time to think about all of the things he is experiencing, not the things he is missing out on.

This ^^^.
 
Today is my 2nd anniversary. I have spent neither of them with my wife. Thank you, though, for supposing you know my story.

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!!!
:yay: :beer1: :groupwave:
I hope you at least have a Skype date planned! :wink:


Blackhawkmom - Enough of the pity party already!!
Find a hobby! Go on a Date with your Husband - remember all the times when the kids were little and you wished for free time?
Volunteer!! Paint a room!!
Do something with your own life so that when you see him - you can talk about what YOU have been doing.

I don't know how often your son is calling you but if he is calling you every day quit being so accessible. ( I know that sounds mean) Don't talk to him more than once (maybe twice) a week. Quit telling him you miss him.
He doesn't need to tell you everything. You CANNOT fix what ever injustice he (and you) percieve is happening.

Your son needs you to give him Gifts. Gift to him the freedom to succeed on his one in his journey. Gift him ownership of his new life.
Love him enough to let him go.
 
First off, at USNA, if one person made all the decisions, that would deprive all the others of the decision making process. If one person made all the decisions, it would deprive those being affected of the comparative evaluation of the results of those decisions by observing their shipmates in a sister unit. And USNA is first and foremost, a leadership lab.

Additionally, the leader of any Naval unit bears tremendous responsibility and accountability. With that comes the demand for total loyalty from each and every one under them. These precepts are grown and nourished in the leadership lab that is USNA. Therefore, standardization between units which would require a tremendous amount of management and effort is not even a priority.

The result is units that are totally unique. When an Ensign walks down the pier and walks up the brow to his first ship, the one across the pier could, and probably is, a totally different atmosphere. His could change overnight from good to bad. Naval units are living breathing homogenous units, each unique in its own way and each capable of change depending on the dynamics of its leaders.

I read something recently that, due to the increased focus on smaller units in the Army that USMA is changing some of its leadership training to produce a more independent thinking graduate.

Mongo - this is a very interesting & informative post and something I probably should have been able to come up with on my own. But I have been puzzling over why at AF and Navy it seems like there is such a great variance among companies/squadrons in terms of leadership style, privileges, punishments, and training. I've been amazed at AF how much authority the squadron commander (a cadet) and his staff have compared to what we had at WP. It seemed like then (a generation ago granted) nearly everything came down from "above" - a company commander just couldn't decide to restrict the company or to grant additional privileges if it hadn't been blessed at the Corps level. What you say makes a lot of sense and I find it even more interesting that you reference USMA changing to that style, which at least makes me feel better that I wasn't just imagining how things were!
 
Mongo - this is a very interesting & informative post and something I probably should have been able to come up with on my own. But I have been puzzling over why at AF and Navy it seems like there is such a great variance among companies/squadrons in terms of leadership style, privileges, punishments, and training. I've been amazed at AF how much authority the squadron commander (a cadet) and his staff have compared to what we had at WP. It seemed like then (a generation ago granted) nearly everything came down from "above" - a company commander just couldn't decide to restrict the company or to grant additional privileges if it hadn't been blessed at the Corps level. What you say makes a lot of sense and I find it even more interesting that you reference USMA changing to that style, which at least makes me feel better that I wasn't just imagining how things were!

IAW regulations, a commander can only make a policy MORE restrictive than that implemented by higher. For example, if the Corps gets a pass, the CO can withhold it from his company. But if the Corps is restricted from off-post privileges by the First Captain, the CO cannot grant them.
 
That makes sense! I guess I'm just surprised at AF how many of those decisions though are at the squadron/company level rather than at Corps/Wing level. For example, if you missed a class at WP, you'd be written on a 2-1 and it would have been an automatic punishment (most likely an 8 & 8 back then). Would have gone through your Tac and RTO, no matter if you were a plebe or a firstie, and the punishment would have been the same most likely if you were in first or fourth regiment, with some consideration of your record up to that point. However, it seems to me like at AF that in a similar situation, the Squadron Commander (not the AOC/Tac, but the cadet) would have the authority to decide not to punish someone who they knew was a good cadet, or under a lot of stress, or similar. At WP it seemed like maybe the Tac could try to put in a good word for them with the RTO and of course the Co Cdr could talk to the Tac, but in general cadets had no overall control in matters like that.
 
That makes sense! I guess I'm just surprised at AF how many of those decisions though are at the squadron/company level rather than at Corps/Wing level. For example, if you missed a class at WP, you'd be written on a 2-1 and it would have been an automatic punishment (most likely an 8 & 8 back then). Would have gone through your Tac and RTO, no matter if you were a plebe or a firstie, and the punishment would have been the same most likely if you were in first or fourth regiment, with some consideration of your record up to that point. However, it seems to me like at AF that in a similar situation, the Squadron Commander (not the AOC/Tac, but the cadet) would have the authority to decide not to punish someone who they knew was a good cadet, or under a lot of stress, or similar. At WP it seemed like maybe the Tac could try to put in a good word for them with the RTO and of course the Co Cdr could talk to the Tac, but in general cadets had no overall control in matters like that.

For us it was 5 hours for being late, 10 hours for missing. The CO ran the company board and the Tac intervened if he wanted you to get it worse. I think that was pretty standard punishment, though if you were exemplary the CO could give you an alternate punishment, like fatigue tours or a crappy extra job no one wanted, like organizing some event.
 
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