Senatorial Nomination

BSCAR

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Generally speaking, do most of the people who end up getting a senatorial nomination end up eventually being appointed, given than the nomination process for senators is statewide and, therefore, more competitive?
 

time2

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Many people get NOM's who eventually do not get an appointment. Every part of the application process is a competition and far more apply then there are available openings. Everyone must be 3Q AND have a NOM to be in the running for an appointment. Only having a principal NOM would be an advantage in this process. Other then that, no specific type of NOM is more valuable then another. Each MOC runs their own process and decides how to issue NOM's.

Where a NOM is issued can be different from where USMA eventually charges it, so I doubt you find any published stats on what your asking.
 

BSCAR

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Many people get NOM's who eventually do not get an appointment. Every part of the application process is a competition and far more apply then there are available openings. Everyone must be 3Q AND have a NOM to be in the running for an appointment. Only having a principal NOM would be an advantage in this process. Other then that, no specific type of NOM is more valuable then another. Each MOC runs their own process and decides how to issue NOM's.

Where a NOM is issued can be different from where USMA eventually charges it so I doubt you find any published stats on what your asking.
I was talking more about a correlation between the attainment of a senatorial nomination and eventual appointment. I know that there is no advantage to those who have a particular type of nom other than a principal nom. I guess what I was getting at is, what is the rate at which those who receive a senatorial nom get appointed and how does it compare to those with a nom from their House member?
 

tug_boat

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I have never seen data that indexes the nom sources to appointments. (Im not saying I know and see everything) All you need is one NOM from the many sources available. Does one have more influence over another? hmmmm IMHO I don't think so. Could multiple NOMs have a better chance? Maybe. Admissions have a requirement of an extra step to attend SA and that's the NOM. So admissions really has the selection power who gets the nod

Push Hard, Press Froward
 

USMA 1994

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I would suggest that it may be harder to receive an appointment if you "only" have a Senatorial nomination based on the individuals your are competing against. The Senator typically has one slot per year and even though the ten individuals that are nominated are the "best" candidates in the state, there is still only one slot they are competing for. Being the third or fourth ranked candidate on the Senators slate likely leaves you on the outside looking in but would have an individual as the top ranked individual in most congressional districts and gain an appointment. The second ranked candidate may get pulled of the NWL list but there are many factors that change every year. You should apply for all possible nomination sources as possible because you do not know who you may compete against in a given year. There are always exceptions but the general rule is that more nominations allow you to compete on more slates.
 

BSCAR

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I would suggest that it may be harder to receive an appointment if you "only" have a Senatorial nomination based on the individuals your are competing against. The Senator typically has one slot per year and even though the ten individuals that are nominated are the "best" candidates in the state, there is still only one slot they are competing for. Being the third or fourth ranked candidate on the Senators slate likely leaves you on the outside looking in but would have an individual as the top ranked individual in most congressional districts and gain an appointment. The second ranked candidate may get pulled of the NWL list but there are many factors that change every year. You should apply for all possible nomination sources as possible because you do not know who you may compete against in a given year. There are always exceptions but the general rule is that more nominations allow you to compete on more slates.
That's sort of what I was getting at; it would seem to me that those who get a senatorial nomination end up getting a nomination from their House member as well.
 

jebdad

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That's sort of what I was getting at; it would seem to me that those who get a senatorial nomination end up getting a nomination from their House member as well.

I would guess that in most competitive states it is exactly the opposite. Senators and House members are, after all, politicians. They want to please as many constituents as possible and, therefore, have a policy of communicating with eachother and not duplicating nominations.
 

BSCAR

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I would guess that in most competitive states it is exactly the opposite. Senators and House members are, after all, politicians. They want to please as many constituents as possible and, therefore, have a policy of communicating with eachother and not duplicating nominations.
Yeah you're right here; I'm pretty sure most senators don't cross nominate.
 

HardWorker

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I think your question is being somewhat misunderstood. Aren't you asking whether or not you are more likely to be appointed if you have a senatorial nomination (since it is more competitive than a congressional nomination)?
 

BSCAR

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I think your question is being somewhat misunderstood. Aren't you asking whether or not you are more likely to be appointed if you have a senatorial nomination (since it is more competitive than a congressional nomination)?
I'm asking if the candidates who receive a nomination from a senator are statistically more likely than those who only recieved a nomination from their House member, given that the Senatorial noms are more competitive.
 

peaslet

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For what it is worth, After some research, I was told that Senators do communicate with each other in order not to duplicate but Congressmen do not. Not sure how true all of that is.

My DS has 2 noms to USNA but am being told that the Congressional has not shown up even though the Congressman's office says they have sent it. He has an appointment to USAFA already but he would really like one to USNA as well to compare, so pushing to find out the issue with the Congressional at USNA. My husband is a USAFA grad and he definitely feels like the ballgame has more innings this many years later...25 to be exact. Good job to all the parents and your DS/DD's for keeping your head in the game. It is definitely a process. I've realized how many young men and women are out there that don't have this support. Trying to convince my husband to become an ALO as he is very supportive of all the Service Academies and their missions.
 

Mcjlt

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I'm asking if the candidates who receive a nomination from a senator are statistically more likely than those who only recieved a nomination from their House member, given that the Senatorial noms are more competitive.

Just wondering why you think senatorial noms are more competitive? Would this be in states with many house representatives?
 

BSCAR

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Just wondering why you think senatorial noms are more competitive? Would this be in states with many house representatives?
They're more competitive because it encompasses every candidate from your state as opposed to your congressional district. That is, unless you live in Alaska, Delaware, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont or Wyoming, as they have 1 House member and 2 senators.
 

jl123

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Generally speaking, do most of the people who end up getting a senatorial nomination end up eventually being appointed, given than the nomination process for senators is statewide and, therefore, more competitive?
Although it would seem logical that candidates successful in a statewide competition would be more competitive than candidates successful in a local competition, that is not always the case. Why give a Senatorial nomination to a candidate who is a congressional Principal Nominee? From the MOC viewpoint, the goal is to give nominations to as many qualified candidates as possible. Unless the pool of applicants is small, duplicating nominations works against their interests.

A lot depends on the size of the state and the amount of coordination between Senate offices, Congressional offices, and USMA admissions. For example, Delaware with one congressional district is essentially three statewide competitions. In large states it would hurt the candidates in their constituency if they did not communicate because the senatorial nominations are so few with respect to the number of candidates, but there is no regulation requiring coordination. Some congressional offices do communicate, but the formality and regularity of the communication varies widely.
 

Padre101

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I think there is a false assumption that Senatorial Nominations are more competitive that Congressional Nominations.

There are 7 states where there are only one House Representative and two Senators (Alaska, Delaware, Montana, North Dakota,South Dakota, Vermont and Wyoming). In those states, it can arguably said that the Congressional Nominations are more competitive.
 

BSCAR

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I think there is a false assumption that Senatorial Nominations are more competitive that Congressional Nominations.

There are 7 states where there are only one House Representative and two Senators (Alaska, Delaware, Montana, North Dakota,South Dakota, Vermont and Wyoming). In those states, it can arguably said that the Congressional Nominations are more competitive.
On the whole though, senatorial noms tend to be much more competitive than House nominations.
 

Padre101

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On the whole though, senatorial noms tend to be much more competitive than House nominations.

Generally speaking you may be correct. But there are exceptions.

I think there are districts in California and Virginia where the congressional districts are more competitive than the state as a whole.

The candidates from those congressional districts may have higher GPAs and standardized test scores, more leadership roles and more extracurricular activities than candidates from the rest of state.

Getting a nomination from one of those hyper-competitive districts may put you in better standing to get an appointment than a senatorial nomination.

Bottom-line, I don't think there is a definitive answer to your original question.
 

tug_boat

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Yes senatorial NOMs will be much more competitive than congressional. Congressional youre only competing with the applicants in you district as opposed the whole state. But one out weigh the other or giving a NOM based on political party? I don't think so.

Push Hard, Press Forward
 

Sledge

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The year my son received an appointment to USMA, Senator Ted Cruz had at least 6 of his nominees to USMA, off a slate of 10, get appointments. Mind you, not all were charged to Sen. Cruz as Sen. Cruz did "double nominate" with House Reps. It just shows the caliber of those appointed by that particular Senator.

Likewise, look at Sen. Cruz's most recent press release, from last year - a similar 60% of his nominees (assuming he had single 10-person slates) received appointments. - https://www.cruz.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=2655
 
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