Senior year grades

T

talltrees

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Joined
Feb 23, 2019
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127
I recently made a post about this, but now that my grades are finalized I would like some input.
i had a really bad Freshman year and before senior year I had a 3.3 uw gpa and a 3.8 w. But I’m ending with a
A in AP lit
C in AP physics
A in AP gov
A in photography
C in pre calc
B in AP French.
this will raise my weighted but lower my unweighted. As someone who has decent test scores how bad will this hurt my application?
 
Well, it is not going to help it. From a STEM standpoint, it is C in Physics and C in Pre Calc.
I can't say that West Point will do this but one way to think about your grades is to take the purely academic courses and run the GPA for them and then take the STEM courses and look at the GPA for them.

To everyone who is getting ready to tell me how important music, or art or Photography, etc are, please save your time. This is about Service Academy admissions and what they value.

For what its worth, I did some Congressional Interviews yesterday and we had one applicant who at first, based on GPA seemed like a maybe due to a couple of attributes/skills. When the four of us (interviewers) dug deeper into the details of the transcript, all of us noted that despite (weighted) GPA of over 4, his STEM courses were almost all C's or low B's.

The panel was pretty experienced - O6 Navy Pilot, O5 Navy SWO, O3 Army Armor, O? West Point FFR and ALL agreed that based on what we saw, we were pretty doubtful regarding this candidate's academic potential for a service academy. The A's in Honors Orchestra, A's in a Language, plus A's in many other things were nice but don't push past the Mediocre STEM performance.
 
OldRetSWO said:
Well, it is not going to help it. From a STEM standpoint, it is C in Physics and C in Pre Calc.
I can't say that West Point will do this but one way to think about your grades is to take the purely academic courses and run the GPA for them and then take the STEM courses and look at the GPA for them.

To everyone who is getting ready to tell me how important music, or art or Photography, etc are, please save your time. This is about Service Academy admissions and what they value.

For what its worth, I did some Congressional Interviews yesterday and we had one applicant who at first, based on GPA seemed like a maybe due to a couple of attributes/skills. When the four of us (interviewers) dug deeper into the details of the transcript, all of us noted that despite (weighted) GPA of over 4, his STEM courses were almost all C's or low B's.

The panel was pretty experienced - O6 Navy Pilot, O5 Navy SWO, O3 Army Armor, O? West Point FFR and ALL agreed that based on what we saw, we were pretty doubtful regarding this candidate's academic potential for a service academy. The A's in Honors Orchestra, A's in a Language, plus A's in many other things were nice but don't push past the Mediocre STEM performance.
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Could a strong ACT score in math and science and/or strong SAT math score help to sway you otherwise?
 
Just my opinion, which is worth the paper it is not written on in this forum, but I would be concerned whenever I see inconsistency.

High class grades, but low objective testing, raises the question of how well the individual actually achieved command of the subject matter. I know the "tests are biased" arguments, but the real world works based on standardized measurements. You won't achieve any professional licensure without testing well.

On the converse, high test scores, but poor class performance, raise the issues of inadequate focus and commitment.

Not saying that either scenario necessarily kills an application, but I will always choose the candidate without troubling anomalies. I want the candidate who achieves consistent excellence across platforms.
 
THmom said:
Could a strong ACT score in math and science and/or strong SAT math score help to sway you otherwise?
Click to expand...
This kid had mediocre SATs and actually maybe a little better than the Math/Science courses would indicate but even if they were better, it would not outweigh so many middling grades. I would give the tests more credence if it were just a couple of grades but this candidates entire STEM resume was not good. We have many good and quite a few Great candidates in the district and this one just does not even come close.
 
OldRetSWO said:
Well, it is not going to help it. From a STEM standpoint, it is C in Physics and C in Pre Calc.
I can't say that West Point will do this but one way to think about your grades is to take the purely academic courses and run the GPA for them and then take the STEM courses and look at the GPA for them.

To everyone who is getting ready to tell me how important music, or art or Photography, etc are, please save your time. This is about Service Academy admissions and what they value.

For what its worth, I did some Congressional Interviews yesterday and we had one applicant who at first, based on GPA seemed like a maybe due to a couple of attributes/skills. When the four of us (interviewers) dug deeper into the details of the transcript, all of us noted that despite (weighted) GPA of over 4, his STEM courses were almost all C's or low B's.

The panel was pretty experienced - O6 Navy Pilot, O5 Navy SWO, O3 Army Armor, O? West Point FFR and ALL agreed that based on what we saw, we were pretty doubtful regarding this candidate's academic potential for a service academy. The A's in Honors Orchestra, A's in a Language, plus A's in many other things were nice but don't push past the Mediocre STEM performance.
Click to expand...

It’s tough to be straightforward but necessary as we are striving to prepare our DsDd’s (and in some cases, themselves) for life in the real world. False hope benefits no one and IMO creates more issues. Thanks for your candor.
 
Good advice above. Also important to think beyond the fleeting experience of winning appointment. There’s also the matter of actually succeeding over the long term at an SA. Many a STEM A student in high school struggled when faced with college-level STEM courses. Getting a C in high school physics or pre-calc does not bode well for success at an SA. There may be extenuating circumstances, and perhaps the SAT/ACT will provide assurances to Admissions. But they have others to choose from who don’t have an anomaly between grades and tests.
 
MidCakePa said:
Good advice above. Also important to think beyond the fleeting experience of winning appointment. There’s also the matter of actually succeeding over the long term at an SA. Many a STEM A student in high school struggled when faced with college-level STEM courses. Getting a C in high school physics or pre-calc does not bode well for success at an SA. There may be extenuating circumstances, and perhaps the SAT/ACT will provide assurances to Admissions. But they have others to choose from who don’t have an anomaly between grades and tests.
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I know this sounds like an excuse, but our physics teacher at school is known for being bad. In addition to that he wouldnt extend test dates or quiz/lab dates for athletes, so I have a couple zeros on quizzes that I was absent for.
 
talltrees said:
I know this sounds like an excuse, but our physics teacher at school is known for being bad. In addition to that he wouldnt extend test dates or quiz/lab dates for athletes, so I have a couple zeros on quizzes that I was absent for.
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I have the same issue at my school. STEM classes are not emphasized or held to a high standard. We have exceptional History and English teachers, but for higher science classes most of the teachers are not efficient (Doesn’t teach same material on tests, falls asleep in class, or simply doesn’t care). These are the same individuals who teach rigorous classes, such as Physics and Chemistry. I took Chemistry while we still had a decent teacher, but after she left the person who replaced her did not care as much about the job as a whole. My county of schools is much less funded than any other in the state, so they are often forced to choose less than capable teachers to replace who was lost. I hope admissions doesn’t think I am making an excuse, but if asked this is probably what I’d tell them. It is much easier to take STEM courses when there are teachers who genuinely care about students and their job. However, if it is the opposite case then students have to choose whether they want a less than admirable grade that the academies wouldn’t look favorably upon or take classes that are less rigorous, but have efficient teachers.
 
talltrees said:
I know this sounds like an excuse, but our physics teacher at school is known for being bad. In addition to that he wouldnt extend test dates or quiz/lab dates for athletes, so I have a couple zeros on quizzes that I was absent for.
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The issue of not extending dates should have only been an issue once. After seeing it happen the first time, you should know to do them beforehand or to make other appropriate arrangements that do not involve penalties.
 
OldRetSWO said:
The issue of not extending dates should have only been an issue once. After seeing it happen the first time, you should know to do them beforehand or to make other appropriate arrangements that do not involve penalties.
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After the first time I asked and he said it was a matter of doing better on tests to make up for the lost quizzes and labs. It was really just a choice between quitting my sport or missing quizzes
 
Make up for it in other areas. I did horribly in chemistry sophomore year, but made it up later and compensated with a strong overall application.
 
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