Service Commitment

LoonWatch2027

Class of 2027 Appointee
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Apr 4, 2022
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How does adding years to your service work? I know I'm required to do 5 years and I would like to do more than that. Are you able to add additional 2 or 3 years segments like contracts or something? Let's say I went submarine and wanted to do 7-8 years, is this realistic?
 
How does adding years to your service work? I know I'm required to do 5 years and I would like to do more than that. Are you able to add additional 2 or 3 years segments like contracts or something? Let's say I went submarine and wanted to do 7-8 years, is this realistic?
Once you have your commission, and depending on what service obligation years are required by your commissioning source, what is required for your officer warfare community and when the “counter” starts for that community, are the key elements to understanding your initial active duty obligated service, ADSO.

Since you would not be a Reserve officer, but a an officer with a Regular active duty commission, you serve at the pleasure of the Secretary of the Navy. Once you complete your initial OBLISERV, you are free to request to resign your commission. Typically, that is approved. If you wish to continue to serve, you proceed as normal and accept the next set of orders. As long as you perform well and are promoted to the next grade, you can complete a full statutory retirement at 20 years or more, depending on your pay grade/rank. There are no guarantees, as you must promote (you usually get 3 tries in 3 years for competitive promotion boards) or you will be separated. There is a lot more to that which I won’t go into here. But yes, you can certainly stay! Many JOs get out at 6-8 years.

Most orders are for 2-3 years. You are usually expected to complete at least two years of that set of orders before requesting to separate. You don’t accept a set of orders to fill a position, have the Navy spend money to move you, your household good and family, then decide to drop your resignation letter 2 months into that tour of duty. That’s down in the weeds. You will learn all about how all this works from more senior officers and peers a few years ahead of you, never fear.

You can also accrue more OBLISERV if, say, you get your Master’s degree on the Navy dime or time. A key point there is if that additional time will be served concurrently with remaining initial OBLISERV or consecutively, piled on after you complete the initial ADSO.

SA grads also have to stay for 36 months past their initial OBLISERV to earn 100% of the generous Post-9/11 GI Bill veteran education benefit. Staying for a lesser amount of time reduces the %. You can read about that at VA.gov.

My Navy OCS ADSO was 3 years, “three and flee,” as opposed to “five and dive” at a SA or, at that time, “four and out the door” for ROTC. I stayed for 26. The Navy kept dangling great orders and promoting me - plus I loved it.
 
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As long as you perform well and are promoted to the next grade, you can complete a full statutory retirement at 20 years or more, depending on your pay grade/rank.
As always a very accurate and informative post by CaptMJ. Just wanted to bring up that anyone entering active duty now is under the Blended Retirement System - therefore there isn't the requirement to serve 20 years (former/legacy High-3 retirement system) to receive a "retirement benefit." You can read more at: https://militarypay.defense.gov/blendedretirement/ - however, you would receive training on this.
 
As always a very accurate and informative post by CaptMJ. Just wanted to bring up that anyone entering active duty now is under the Blended Retirement System - therefore there isn't the requirement to serve 20 years (former/legacy High-3 retirement system) to receive a "retirement benefit." You can read more at: https://militarypay.defense.gov/blendedretirement/ - however, you would receive training on this.
Thanks - I am up to speed on BRS but know there are legacy folks out there still - I had in mind the statutory limits, such as 30 for O-6, etc. - didn’t mean to mix the vendor apples with statutory career limit oranges. Glad you clarified.
 
How does adding years to your service work? I know I'm required to do 5 years and I would like to do more than that. Are you able to add additional 2 or 3 years segments like contracts or something? Let's say I went submarine and wanted to do 7-8 years, is this realistic?
7-8 years is very realistic. That would be a 3 year initial tour (after school) plus 2-3 years for shore duty, depending on the shore duty tour.


Every community is different. The first "cut" will be O4 promotion, which you can pick out as "O4 IZ" or "O4 SB" marked out for each of these slides.

For submariners, it looks like that will be around 9 or 10 years. If you fail to screen for department head (2 looks at 5 and 6 years), you will probably fail to select for O4, but you won't be asked to leave until you fail to select to O4 at least two times.

So if your first in-zone look is at 9 years, you'll get another look at 10 years. If you fail the second look at 10 years, you might not actually be separated for a few months after that (processing takes time), or you might be able to make continuation (via another board process) and a chance to extend the timeline by a number years (depending on annual policy, currently 3).

Officers that are off the yellow brick road and fail to screen for career milestones can be assigned to "recovery tours" at sea, staff duty somewhere to mark time (and go to job interviews) or elect to try to lateral transfer to another community (and get a fresh start).

Also want to highlight that accepting orders is also accepting the obligated service associated with those orders. The Navy reserves the right to keep you for the duration of your orders regardless of the 5-year minimum service requirement. So if your first tour is 3 years, and your second tour is 3 years, you should prepare to be in for 6 and not be too surprised if the Navy doesn't let you cut that short by a year.

I'm sure everyone's read about the recruitment and retention issues across the DOD. It does have an impact. It might be good for some, as continuation is easier to get. It might be bad for others, as commands and detailers are less and less inclined to have folks do things like extension to PRD instead of accepting next set of orders, or retire/resign early.
 
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Also want to highlight that accepting orders is also accepting the obligated service associated with those orders. The Navy reserves the right to keep you for the duration of your orders regardless of the 5-year minimum service requirement. So if your first tour is 3 years, and your second tour is 3 years, you should prepare to be in for 6 and not be too surprised if the Navy doesn't let you cut that short by a year.

Regarding "accepting orders", what are an officer's options? How would/could they refuse one and not commit career suicide? I assume that is where they beg detailer for a shorter assignment somewhere less desirable if wanting/needing to separate earlier?
 
Officers work with their detailers on the next set of orders. The way it used to work -- and may or may not be exactly the same today -- after the officer's first tour s/he submits preferences (I don't know how "physically" that's done today). It can start with "I'd like to go to [a place). or "I'd like to go to grad school." Or it might be more specific re a particular job. By the end of their first tour (or any tour), officers know the options generally avaialble to them based on their preferences and how well they've done in the first tour. So, for example, may pilots want to go to the RAG (replacement air group) to train future pilots. That's considered (or was) a great second tour. Some will be tapped for very selective positions, such as an Admiral's aide.

Sometimes, the detailer will offer certain jobs. Then there's a "negotiation." Usually, the officer's preference carries some weight -- especially for junior officers who can easily leave if they don't like their next option. (Senior officers can as well, but they often are less likely to -- and that was especially the case in the old system when it was stay for 20 or get no retirement). In the end, the detailer has to fill jobs, retain good talent and try to keep everyone happy. It is very rare (though it happens) when the detailer says to a decent performer, "I'm assigning you to this (crappy) job -- take it or leave it." And, almost always (some exceptions), the officer can leave it.
 
Just as @usna1985 says, there are
discussions/communications with the detailer before orders are cut. The “detailing window” is usually 6 months out from end of current orders projected rotation date (PRD), so discussions occur prior to that. Once orders are cut, the officer is usually obligated to complete them. They should not be a surprise. “Should,” operative word. When you get more senior, things can happen, but in a good way. I was supposed to have a 3-year tour as the XO of a large SIMA (ship repair activity), but the detailer called me, told me they were moving me at the 2-year mark, as I had done everything I needed to do, career block check-wise, to a bigger role locally, for 2 years, and it was a “by-name” call (a flag officer asks for you). A USNA sponsor family alumna had just completed her O-5 command at sea tour, very successful, had just settled into her new duty at Newport, RI, great job, beautiful big quarters overlooking the water, we were making plans to go up and stay - and she calls me one night and says “the detailer called me, I’m in a package [short list of proposed officers] to be the senior military aide for Undersecretary of the Navy. Undersecretary is visiting Newport in 2 days and wants to meet me. Admiral X specifically got me sent to this set of orders. What do I do next?” I coached her to call all her most senior SWO mentors, including the Admiral who had influenced the Newport assignment, plus go see her current CO, who had already had a heads-up. Her mentors and CO uniformly supported her for the role and coached her on “this is how it can happen for pack-plus officers,” though her CO pretty much said “dang,” knowing he faced a potential gap on his staff until a new officer could be ordered in. She got tapped for the job and reported 3 weeks later to the Pentagon, about 4 months after she got to Newport. Two tours later, she is now in major command at sea, deployed, loving her life. BTW, she was a “regular mid,” top third of her class, held a company striper position (Ops, she was a natural), was varsity team manager for her HS sport, because she loved being around it. These examples are way down the road, but JOs will learn from their chain of command and peers a year or two ahead, how it works. Communication well in advance of the detailing window when orders are cut is the key.

Now, if an officer says, 10-12 months before PRD, I plan to resign my commission about a year from now, a deal might be worked out where they are extended in the same job and PRD pushed out to match planned separation date, or they are assigned locally for a one-year set of orders (saves PCS move money), but that won’t happen until the officer submits the formal separation request.

We had a USNA sponsor daughter who decided she did not want to continue and go to dept head school and back to sea, knowing this was SWO career suicide, but wanted to stay on AD the 36 months SA grads have to do past their initial ADSO, so she could qualify for 100% of her Post-9/11 GI Bill veteran education benefit. When the timing was right, she told her chain of command, was properly counseled on consequences and motivation, and she contacted her detailer. Now, I did advise her to try to negotiate for any set of shore duty orders in CONUS, just to make logistics easier when it came time to separate. She got an extension in her current job ashore and then a 2-year set of orders to Bahrain on a staff there. Those particular orders aren’t career-builder roles, but the detailer has those jobs to fill as well, when the placement officers (placement serves the command, keeping them staffed) send around a “must fill, any line officer LT” billet. She was single, no kids, enjoyed the job and close community there in Bahrain, took refresher courses for her grad degree plans, applied to graduate schools, got out, went straight to Syracuse U MBA program, paying no tuition, with a living allowance, taking advantage of other scholarships and home state vet benefits. She is doing well in her civilian career, and she was promoted to LCDR in the Reserves, where she is also doing well.

It’s a two-way street where “needs of the Navy” will be the trump card every time, but seeking out career advice and being proactive with the detailer, and sustained superior performance (this is the leverage!), are how an officer navigates orders and career decisions.
 
Regarding "accepting orders", what are an officer's options? How would/could they refuse one and not commit career suicide? I assume that is where they beg detailer for a shorter assignment somewhere less desirable if wanting/needing to separate earlier?
Refusing orders is career suicide. And at some point, you won't be able to refuse without facing separation.

Sometimes what you want just isn't available, or a high priority, absolutely must-fill billet takes precedence over what you want. Detailers will work with you to the best of their ability (and it is very much a "good faith" relationship), but if it doesn't work out you can suck it up or try to drop your papers.

*Somebody* needs to go to places like Diego Garcia and Djibouti. It is incredibly important in those situations to not get bitter about it and "grow where you're planted," as they say.

Different officer communities have very different flexibility as well. Conventional SWOs can go pretty much everywhere and do anything. If you're a nuke SWO, there's only four places that have aircraft carriers. If you're a female submariner officer, there's only a handful of boats in a couple of locations that you can go to. That can be a consideration as well during service assignment for some folks.

Sometimes you get what you want. Sometimes you get the fifth choice down your list, but at least it's not the tenth choice down the list. But sometimes that works out better than your original first choice anyway. Service assignment is really just the first taste of this kind of rack-and-stack and some people not getting what they want.
 
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So all of this is well and good… until there is a draw down, also known as a RIF or Reduction In Force. Then, chuck it out the door. How things progress at that point depends on the needs of the military, current law, and performance.
Historically (though not always), regular officers had an advantage over reserve officers in these cases. Reserve officers would normally be drawn down first, then regular officers. As I noted, however, this is not always the case. After Desert Storm there was a huge reduction in force. Ironically, prior to Desert Storm my wife’s year group was so under strength that she was forced onto active duty. Yet after Desert Storm it was deemed over strength and 20% of her year group was cut before the O-3 board even met.
Pilots graduating from flight school rather than incurring an ADSO were shown the door. Service Academy graduates were given the option of leaving active duty after 3 years. Sometimes less.
I’m saying this so you know that what people wrote above is normal… but not always the case. When a RIF occurs officers are often caught off guard. One friend of mine was given 90 days to leave active duty while stationed in Germany. He thought his commander was calling him in to congratulate him on his promotion to captain. Instead he was shown the door. This was pre internet and he had to figure out what he would do.
So alway have a “plan b”.
 
Refusing orders is career suicide. And at some point, you won't be able to refuse without facing separation.

Sometimes what you want just isn't available, or a high priority, absolutely must-fill billet takes precedence over what you want. Detailers will work with you to the best of their ability (and it is very much a "good faith" relationship), but if it doesn't work out you can suck it up or try to drop your papers.

*Somebody* needs to go to places like Diego Garcia and Djibouti. It is incredibly important in those situations to not get bitter about it and "grow where you're planted," as they say.

Different officer communities have very different flexibility as well. Conventional SWOs can go pretty much everywhere and do anything. If you're a nuke SWO, there's only four places that have aircraft carriers. If you're a female submariner officer, there's only a handful of boats in a couple of locations that you can go to. That can be a consideration as well during service assignment for some folks.

Sometimes you get what you want. Sometimes you get the fifth choice down your list, but at least it's not the tenth choice down the list. But sometimes that works out better than your original first choice anyway. Service assignment is really just the first taste of this kind of rack-and-stack and some people not getting what they want.
Spot on observations.

Especially getting part of what you want - the officer has to be flexible. And at a certain point, in your year group and rank, the pack is starting to separate into pack-plus, pack and pack-minus performers. The pack-minus officers are likely to be good people doing an acceptable and reasonably competent job, but they are now lagging behind their peers in their competitive group. The better you perform, the more leverage you have, and if that aligns where your detailer thinks is the best career-enhancing assignment for your community, all is well. The first two promotions in the Navy are fog-a-mirror, pass your PRT, do your job competently, get recommended for promotion. The Navy realizes sometimes people are late bloomers. The promotions after that are competitive and board-evaluated, and the selection percentage (eye of the needle) gets smaller at each rank. As a JO, I didn’t realize roughly 50% of all 1-star (O-7) admirals do not make 2-star rank (O-8) - each new crop is chopped in half going forward after their first one-two flag officer assignments, and it gets very rarefied after that. Making O-6 is harder than O-5, in terms of selection percentage. O-5 selection percentage is less than O-4. There is a statutory limit on the number of officers allowed in each paygrade, so the manpower analysts are managing accession, promotion, attrition, retention, etc., factors, up and down the ranks and across year groups.The Navy is going to choose its best officers to go to the plum jobs, in the hope of retaining them and maintaining the quality of the officer communities, and growing future leaders of the Navy.

An example I’ll share - in between two high-profile jobs, where the PRDs of incoming and incumbent officers didn’t precisely align, the Navy “stashed” me for 3 months TEMDU doing SECNAV IG investigations into serious recruiting complaints. The CNRC admiral had heard I was available and snatched me up. During the latter half of my Navy career, I had developed the reputation of being a “fixer” - throw me at the messy stuff, and I’d figure it out. No glam jobs for me, but I loved creating order and success out of chaos and, well, a pile of poop. I was physically stashed at the then-named Naval Recruiting District (NTAG today) in Compton, CA. Great food around there in a very diverse community in family restaurants, but not the best area after sunset. I did well on sorting out 3 nasty investigations, uncovered a major no-no and got a super fitrep from the western recruiting area commander. Meanwhile, a good friend of mine, two years senior to me, needed a stash at the same time - he was sent to be SECNAV’s speechwriter. He’s a retired 4-star and you’d recognize the name from national network commentators. I like to think I was pack-plus, but he was eye-watering pack-plus from his earliest days. Our stash roles reflected that.

By the way, it is generally accepted that to make the rank of O-6 and hold major command in that rank is the mark of a fully and highly successful officer career for a line officer, and that promotion to flag rank is icing on the cake, subject to what the Navy needs in its most senior ranks with certain skill sets.
 
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Once my dad made the decision to leave fleet service after his CO tour on the USS Reid (FFG-30), he knew he would ride out his career an an O-6. Within the group he bounced around with in DC, there was one O-7 running the show. My dad knew he wouldn't be in the running for a flag position. But he wanted to get his 30 years, so he stuck around. As the veteran posters above note, the higher you go, the harder it gets to advance.

(Same sort of thing in civil service. Stick around enough, you can get to a GS-15, but getting SES is another ballgame. Flag equivalent, but not Congressionally appointed).
 
Know also that the "lead times" for turning in dream sheets, detailing windows, getting orders and submitting resignations (among others) can often be "goals" rather than what actually happens. We had a frequent poster here a short time ago who was awaiting formal orders for an overseas move and was getting very close to a move date without the needed paperwork to get things going which could cause big problems downstream. My son and his family experienced this earlier this year with an Oconus move and it caused huge issues with school for kids, etc.
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As for resignations, its time for a little Sea Story:
I was on shore duty and getting ready to transition to the reserves. The rule at the time was that you needed to submit 6-9 months ahead of your desired "out date". I submitted my paperwork at exactly 9 months after talking it over with my Department Head, XO and CO. There were a few others in my office who were transitioning at the same time so we were very "up" on the rules, lead times, etc. I was told not to expect orders until a month or so before my date. There was one officer in the "getting out" group who was clearly, the bottom guy. The Department Head had fired him from a more important job and he was a PRT failure in the then-brand new PRT program. He professed to wanting to be out approx when I was but was procrastinating a bit on the paperwork even as he started job hunting.
There was a joke going around the office that the Bureau (Naval Personnel Command) had a helicopter on 5 minute standby and as soon as the command saw his papers, they'd be helo'd to Washington for expedited service.
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Well, we thought it was a joke but when he finally submitted approx a month and a half after me, it was less than a week before a message receipt with preliminary separation orders for him while those of us who'd submitted well before him were seemingly just lost in the big pile. He ended up out well over a month before any of the rest of us and in my case, before I even had any firm indication that they HAD, much less approved my request.
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Bottom Line - dates and lead times can and do move when the Navy needs to move them.
Just don't count on it being in your favor
 
Know also that the "lead times" for turning in dream sheets, detailing windows, getting orders and submitting resignations (among others) can often be "goals" rather than what actually happens. We had a frequent poster here a short time ago who was awaiting formal orders for an overseas move and was getting very close to a move date without the needed paperwork to get things going which could cause big problems downstream. My son and his family experienced this earlier this year with an Oconus move and it caused huge issues with school for kids, etc.
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As for resignations, its time for a little Sea Story:
I was on shore duty and getting ready to transition to the reserves. The rule at the time was that you needed to submit 6-9 months ahead of your desired "out date". I submitted my paperwork at exactly 9 months after talking it over with my Department Head, XO and CO. There were a few others in my office who were transitioning at the same time so we were very "up" on the rules, lead times, etc. I was told not to expect orders until a month or so before my date. There was one officer in the "getting out" group who was clearly, the bottom guy. The Department Head had fired him from a more important job and he was a PRT failure in the then-brand new PRT program. He professed to wanting to be out approx when I was but was procrastinating a bit on the paperwork even as he started job hunting.
There was a joke going around the office that the Bureau (Naval Personnel Command) had a helicopter on 5 minute standby and as soon as the command saw his papers, they'd be helo'd to Washington for expedited service.
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Well, we thought it was a joke but when he finally submitted approx a month and a half after me, it was less than a week before a message receipt with preliminary separation orders for him while those of us who'd submitted well before him were seemingly just lost in the big pile. He ended up out well over a month before any of the rest of us and in my case, before I even had any firm indication that they HAD, much less approved my request.
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Bottom Line - dates and lead times can and do move when the Navy needs to move them.
Just don't count on it being in your favor
I thought this sea story was going to end with he procrastinated too long on submitting his request to resign his commission, and he got a set of orders as Assistant Whatever officer in Diego Garcia. 🤣 As this one actually played out, Big Navy saw the need to pump bilges with relative alacrity.
 
So all of this is well and good… until there is a draw down, also known as a RIF or Reduction In Force. Then, chuck it out the door. How things progress at that point depends on the needs of the military, current law, and performance.
Historically (though not always), regular officers had an advantage over reserve officers in these cases. Reserve officers would normally be drawn down first, then regular officers. As I noted, however, this is not always the case. After Desert Storm there was a huge reduction in force. Ironically, prior to Desert Storm my wife’s year group was so under strength that she was forced onto active duty. Yet after Desert Storm it was deemed over strength and 20% of her year group was cut before the O-3 board even met.
Pilots graduating from flight school rather than incurring an ADSO were shown the door. Service Academy graduates were given the option of leaving active duty after 3 years. Sometimes less.
I’m saying this so you know that what people wrote above is normal… but not always the case. When a RIF occurs officers are often caught off guard. One friend of mine was given 90 days to leave active duty while stationed in Germany. He thought his commander was calling him in to congratulate him on his promotion to captain. Instead he was shown the door. This was pre internet and he had to figure out what he would do.
So alway have a “plan b”.
I'd characterize the Navy as relatively safe from really drastic reductions, unlike the Army. We don't "draw up" for wars, so we don't have to "draw down" after the war. The requirement is not based on operations, but on manning ships and submarines that were there before the war, will be there after the war, and will continue to operate perpetually.

The most drastic swings result in overshooting accessions some years and cutting more than necessary excess in response other years. You at least have the time over a couple of years to watch the select rate for aviation O4s drop from 90 percent to 60 percent.

Every community is different, and it is extremely important to seek mentorship within your own community. Inside knowledge is required to work out the finer details of what is really career enhancing and what is not, wider perspective on what is happening with the force structure, and what pitfalls to avoid.

For example, one might think duty in the White House or some special program/fellowship is always a good thing because those billets are competitive and they seek high performers. That may not always be the case: taking a tour that indicates that you were a high performer in pervious tours and going to a tour where you can demonstrate high performance ranked amongst peers can be different things.
 
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Every community is different, and it is extremely important to seek mentorship within your own community. Inside knowledge is required to work out the finer details of what is really career enhancing and what is not, wider perspective on what is happening with the force structure, and what pitfalls to avoid.

For example, one might think duty in the White House or some special program/fellowship is always a good thing because those billets are competitive and they seek high performers. That may not always be the case: taking a tour that indicates that you were a high performer in pervious tours and going to a tour where you can demonstrate high performance ranked amongst peers can be different things.
This is very true and I'll just add that there are billets and highly sought out special programs that are widely admired in and out of the Navy but can put an officer behind the eight ball when it comes to selection for key milestones within their community.
 
I've seen another option to RIFs and that is voluntary incentives to get people to leave. In my day, there were a couple of those -- VSI, they were called for Voluntary Separation Incentive. They typically targeted communities with too many JOs. There were also limits on the number of people who could volunteer -- it was mostly a first come / first serve approach. Primarily offered to O-3s, but others may have been eligible.

You were NOT eligible if you were on a commitment (i.e., from USNA or pilot / NFO commitment) or had an "obliserve" from grad school or taking an additional nuke/pilot bonus. IOW, they weren't going to pay you to get out when you were getting paid to stay in. They offered either a lump sum or annual payment -- both based on your grade and time in service. It wasn't a huge amount but wasn't insignificant -- lump sum for 7-9-year LT would be equivalent to about $100k today or $16k per year for 2x the number of full years of AD.

The downside was that you had to agree not to come back on AD. You could stay in the reserves and even get paid for it, but could not retire as a reservist -- IOW, you could not double dip in terms of taking money to get out and then getting retirement pay.

Was it a real "incentive?" IMO, it incentives those who were already planning to get out as well as those who were maybe on the fence. It wasn't enough to get someone who was planning to make it a career change their minds. But better than a pure RIF.
 
This is very true and I'll just add that there are billets and highly sought out special programs that are widely admired in and out of the Navy but can put an officer behind the eight ball when it comes to selection for key milestones within their community.
Agree. For example, it's rare for a Blue Angels pilot to make flag rank. It was (and may still be) rare in the Intel community for someone who took an attache billet to make flag rank. Going to grad school at the "wrong" time in your career can be a killer. Going to USNA as a company officer used to be a career killer for almost all communities other than USMC -- that has changed. In my day, those teaching leadership (and sometimes Sea/Nav) were JOs whose careers were going nowhere. That too has changed. Those teaching at NROTC -- dead end! Not sure if that's changed.

Some of those billets were TERRIFIC for family life, getting a grad degree on your own time, for building relationships to transition to the civilian sector, etc. That's why many JOs planning to get out wanted them.

It can also be the case that the job the Navy gives you turns out to be much better than the job you thought you wanted. Coming out of Intel school, I had my choice of billets. I picked one for location -- Jax. A month later, they told me that job was no longer available and they'd tell me where in the world I was going. I HATED where I was sent. That said, it was a much better job andallowed me to meet (and presumably impress) people who helped my career along which in term led to exceptional jobs with senior leadership who really helped in my transition to the civilian world. One of my colleagues went to an analogous job (to the one I was originally supposed to go to) in Jax. Her career went nowhere. You never know . . .
 
I don't know if my dad picked it, or he was assigned after his Chief Engineer sea tour in San Pedro, but he came to USNA to teach Weapons and Systems Engineering as an O-4. Then went down to Charleston for his XO tour.

Do they still use the Academy as a shore duty for mid-career officers?? Especially in the teaching arena?
 
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