Seven (7) USCGA Cadets Discharged

A1Janitor said:
The questions I am focused on - if the science is revealed that the vaccines don’t work or aren’t safe, or there are/were therapeutics available, or natural immunity is better protection than the vaccines, would leadership admit continuing mandates might not be the best choice, and stop the mandates?

Or will they double down?

Fascinating information is coming out.
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Natural Immunity is another way of saying let people become immune by getting the illness. I guess it could be said that the Navy gave Natual Immunity a chance with the USS Theodore Roosevelt and the result was a ship out of action for some time. Perhaps the crew got "better" or more antibodies than from the vaccine but getting there cost us a deployed unit taken out of action.
 
OldRetSWO said:
Natural Immunity is another way of saying let people become immune by getting the illness. I guess it could be said that the Navy gave Natual Immunity a chance with the USS Theodore Roosevelt and the result was a ship out of action for some time. Perhaps the crew got "better" or more antibodies than from the vaccine but getting there cost us a deployed unit taken out of action.
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Time will tell.

When did the crew get sick in relation to the vaccine availability - like 8 months before vaccines were available, at the beginning of covid? Iirc correctly there was one death and 3 hospitalizations in total - and half of the crew got the illness. Did the crew get sick again after that initial outbreak?

Do viruses get weaker over time?

Were there therapeutics that could have minimized the severity of the illness that weren’t utilized?

There were about 80 deaths from covid out of 300k illnesses in the military in total - substantially less than the general population. Did those that died have comorbidities?

What were the adverse effects of the vaccines in the military?
 
I can explain it further if needed janitor. Let me know. Otherwise I'm out of this thread. Have fun y'all.
 
scprepoh said:
I can explain it further if needed janitor. Let me know. Otherwise I'm out of this thread. Have fun y'all.
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I don’t need any explanations from you. I do appreciate the offer though.

There are plenty of scientists and doctors that were censored for years that have been given their voice back. Keep watching. ;)
 
A1Janitor said:
I don’t need any explanations from you. I do appreciate the offer though.

There are plenty of scientists and doctors that were censored for years that have been given their voice back. Keep watching. ;)
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Some voices don't need to return.

www.rgj.com

Lawsuit: Joey Gilbert fighting 'rogue founder' of America's Frontline Doctors for control

A lawsuit details how a financial audit sparked a public fight for control of a group that rose to prominence by spreading COVID-19 misinformation.
www.rgj.com

abcnews.go.com

Dr. Simone Gold, leading anti-vax figure, sentenced for storming Capitol on Jan. 6

Dr. Simone Gold, a leading figure in the anti-vaccine moment, was sentenced to prison Thursday for storming the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com
 
Three interesting ship cases to look at, one of which (USS Theodore Roosevelt) is identified above. The Diamond Princess offered a good glimpse of the actual risk of covid early on.

The USS Milwaukee was a good example of how a crew being 100% vaccinated contributes to ability to deploy and force readiness. That story was posted here during the winter of severe illness and death for the unvaccinated. For those that don't want to search up the many stories out there, about 1/3 of the USS Milwaukee crew came down with covid and they took a two week delay in their cruise. None died.

The Milwaukee deployed on December 14, 2021. Winter of Death proclamation was December 16, 2021. Navy covid death count in December 2021 stood at 17. Navy covid death count in December 2022 stands at 17. You can see updated numbers as of November 30 here: https://www.navy.mil/us-navy-covid-19-updates/

I agree on the censorship issue. You can claim consensus but does it really mean anything when most dissenting voices are silenced? The detail coming out in the last few days makes clear what many people already knew or suspected. And it is not just places like Twitter, Facebook, and Google.

The USS Milwaukee story was posted here on SAF a year ago. It was deleted within a few hours by a moderator. Ask yourself why? Why did a story about 30% of a 100% vaccinated crew getting covid merit censorship when the push to get vaccinated was at its peak?

Yes, time will tell.
 
JP4 said:
Three interesting ship cases to look at, one of which (USS Theodore Roosevelt) is identified above. The Diamond Princess offered a good glimpse of the actual risk of covid early on.

The USS Milwaukee was a good example of how a crew being 100% vaccinated contributes to ability to deploy and force readiness. That story was posted here during the winter of severe illness and death for the unvaccinated. For those that don't want to search up the many stories out there, about 1/3 of the USS Milwaukee crew came down with covid and they took a two week delay in their cruise. None died.

The Milwaukee deployed on December 14, 2021. Winter of Death proclamation was December 16, 2021. Navy covid death count in December 2021 stood at 17. Navy covid death count in December 2022 stands at 17. You can see updated numbers as of November 30 here: https://www.navy.mil/us-navy-covid-19-updates/

I agree on the censorship issue. You can claim consensus but does it really mean anything when most dissenting voices are silenced? The detail coming out in the last few days makes clear what many people already knew or suspected. And it is not just places like Twitter, Facebook, and Google.

The USS Milwaukee story was posted here on SAF a year ago. It was deleted within a few hours by a moderator. Ask yourself why? Why did a story about 30% of a 100% vaccinated crew getting covid merit censorship when the push to get vaccinated was at its peak?

Yes, time will tell.
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For the record, I believe the moderation here has been extremely fair and evenhanded.

Covid vaccines/mandate disagreement is outside the scope of these forums - and disagreements over these issues can detract from the SAF mission.
 
Well, to be fair, the effectiveness or lack of one particular vaccine detracted from the USS Milwaukee's mission. It fits perfectly well within the "Military News" forum.

My view is that the "moderation" of many things from August 2021 through January 2022 was not extremely fair and evenhanded. That is not SAF specific. Perhaps your experience was different than mine. That said, I wouldn't let it distract me from agreeing with pretty much all of what you wrote above. This board has been pretty good from February 2022 forward on covid issues.

I am finding it more entertaining lately to watch the football divisions on this board. If a football player wants to go pro does it depend on what the rules were when he was admitted, or two years latter when he committed, or two years later when he graduates? Why do football players get so many exceptions or special treatment? If you cheat on your physics exam does it matter if you play football? Yes it does. If you OD on fentanyl does it matter if you play football? Yes it does. Is it fair to get fired like the Navy coach did? Maybe. Should those Army players in that friendly match started that brawl? Probably not. Were the new uniforms this year cool? Tastes vary. Disagreements over any of these issues can detract from the SAF mission but none of them have had the real effect on so many peoples lives as the covid vaccination mandates. The seven cadets (or ex-cadets?) that are the subject of this particular thread would probably agree that the vaccine issue was more impactful on their lives than what Coach Ken has planned for next Fall. Coach Ken of course may have a different outlook.
 
A1Janitor said:
For instance:

www.cbsnews.com

FDA restricts Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine due to blood clot risk

The Food and Drug Administration said the shot should only be given to adults who cannot receive a different vaccine or specifically request J&J's vaccine.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com
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If I remember correctly at the time of the clotting problem, almost all of the cases involved those of us who were older and had underlying conditions. I could be off here, but 1 reported severe side effect per 3.3 million doses is not truly unusual for any vaccine. There are going to be people who have reactions to any type of drug, hence the FDA's massive package warnings about side effects with EVERY medication.

I really have no more stomach for arguing about vaccines or effectiveness, the military's mandate kept our forces ready and operational in almost every instance, and some of the problems with "natural immunity' (having contracted COVID) are far worse than the effects from the vaccine. The whole point of this thread is that seven USCGA Cadets were discharged for "failing to obey a lawful order" which at the time WAS a lawful order. And my personal concern is when individual service members are able to decide on their own what is a legal order versus an unlawful order then we have a problem. I can imagine many scenarios where this would cause a failure of the military structure and lead to all sorts of problems with everyone from an E-1 to an O-6 questioning orders of their superiors and not doing what needs to be done immediately to protect our country and citizens.

AGAIN, Military Service is voluntary! If someone has objections to something the military has made policy, then maybe the military is NOT the place for them. None of these seven USCGA Cadets had problems with anything other than the COVID vaccine, and if they did, they knew prior to signing or swearing in that they had these issues. Politics and the military IMHO should be separated and political beliefs kept private and not to interfere with readiness or order.
 
cb7893 said:
So what does it say?

You are starting to remind me of Tony Montana halfway through the final scene of Scarface. I think you should begin all your Covid/Vaccine posts with "Say hello to my little friend".

If I don't post again, have a Merry Christmas with your son! I have one coming home from Montana and one deployed overseas.
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Merry Christmas!

Happy holidays to all.
 
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