Sexual Assaults

But it does give a mom pause to consider the possibility of having an especially beloved DD voluntarily attend a school and enter a career where women may still be vocally considered second class (per Casey's posts) and where "trou" is still a spoken word and accepted reference. I am supporting her decision wholeheartedly - but it does give me pause.

Don't get me wrong, its not like it was in 1976 when the Academy first opened, and its nothing that your daughter wouldn't be able to deal with. I don't want to paint the picture that the Academy is horribly out against women, because its not. I have met some of the most amazing officers, men and women here, and the same with cadets. You just have to take things as a grain of salt.


Trou is also short for trousers.... or uniform pants, so if you hear if coming from the CGA.... that's what it's referring to.

There's a similar origin but completely different connotation coming from WP. Its not a very positive thing for women. Guys would get funny looks if they used it to actually refer to a woman around here for the most part, but it still exists as part of the vernacular.
 
I have a DD going through the SA application process and I have a son at an academy - goldenlion's post scares the begeezus out of me. Thank you for posting and I am so sorry that you were assaulted not just once, but several times and that you couldn't receive the medical and emotional support you likely needed because of the social issues you readily acknowledge.

When the current story broke, I had my daughter read the article (first appeared in businessweek a few weeks before CNN's coverage I think). When I asked her for her reaction, she commented that these situations likely happen as often at civilian campuses and that to be safe, it's just stupid to drink. Ah, to be an invincible 17 year old. My son's perspective, when asked point blank if it's safe for his sister to attend his academy, is that it is safe - that he's never seen or heard first hand of situations like these - and that people make really stupid decisions when they drink.

I would love to know the support systems in place for women - especially for women who are not corps sport athletes. I think, like hornet, that choosing good friends and having that support is key. But it does give a mom pause to consider the possibility of having an especially beloved DD voluntarily attend a school and enter a career where women may still be vocally considered second class (per Casey's posts) and where "trou" is still a spoken word and accepted reference. I am supporting her decision wholeheartedly - but it does give me pause.

Do sexual assaults happen at civilian colleges? Of course they do. But the situation at the SA's are way different. Underclassmen, and therefore females answer to upper classmen every day and they can make life very difficult for you. When you think about it, flutter kicks, pushups, situps and other sorts of discipline at the SA's are almost legalized forms of hazing that would not tolerated at a typical university. So, would a female be wary about reporting an incident with an upperclassmen? Heck yeah when it could affect her daily life and her future. When my DD reported this last year at 17 years old after having led a pretty sheltered life I think that even she, a kid with a police officer father would be terrified to report on an upperclassmen. She has grown up allot since then. One thing I learned after reading Skies to Conquer and after 33 years on the JOB. Kids can't discipline kids. That's why the NCO's are around. They (the kids) have a tendency to take things to the extreme. I don't really care how the press reported it. Something happened to those two cadets, and to Goldenlion, and it should/should have been investigated fully.
 
Some good discussion on this topic and some points I would like to add...

A few folks have brought up being at the Academy the first few weeks and leaving the Yard. My guess is (although I haven't found it anywhere) is it probably means the first few weeks of the academic year. Could be wrong, but didn't see that information.

Obviously from my screen name I think we can figure out I played basketball, but my best friend played soccer at USNA. Our two teams were very close and could often been found rooting one another on. I must say a disclaimer, that Coach Gabarra has produced some phenomenal Midshipmen that became even better Navy and Marine Corps officers (Not sure about the statement they were all pilots). The list of accomplishments by former Navy Women's Soccer players is lengthy.

I agree with LITS, 99% of Midshipmen and Cadets do not tolerate this, just as I think 99% of young men and women don't at a civilian university. What happened to goldenlion is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. She was failed in so many ways. I am glad she was able to share her story and I hope it helped her in the healing process and we can all learn from her. With that being said, Midshipmen and Cadets are very protective of one another, male or female. I never once experienced any sexual assault, was harassed or felt liked a second class citizen. My two room mates at USNA said the same thing. I am not naive enough to know it doesn't happen though. A close friend of mine at USNA did have a sexual assault happen. She had been drinking heavily. Was put to bed and was then taken advantage of, when she was in no way shape or form capable of making that decision. She chose not to report the incident, it was her decision and we respected that. That predator was dealt with by her friends and essentially beaten the crap out of anytime he appeared anywhere. He eventually chose to leave. Right or wrong, doesn't matter, it goes to show it is not tolerated.

My Academy room mate lives in the Annapolis area and is a sponsor. She had a female Mid on YP cruise who was being harassed by a Firstie on her boat. She was very frank in her responses to him and told him to leave her alone, he was being inappropriate, and she was uncomfortable. She finally came and talked to all of us (my best friend and former room mate, her husband and me). We then accompanied her one evening and helped her talk to the OIC of the squadron for training. That Firstie was immediately removed and was dealt with. I believe he had the book thrown at him, but was retained. He never laid a hand on her and think that is what kept him from being tossed. But as you can see, she had an outlet and the situation was successfully dealt with. She is now married and doing well as a SWO.

If a young lady did report an incident, trust me there would be no reprisal from her upperclass. If there was they would be facing some serious charges that would include dismissal. She would have counselors, chaplains, mentors, etc that would be guiding her through the entire process. If she felt she was being targeted because of her reporting the incident she would have plenty of opportunities to mention it. Company officers and SNCOs would also be watching things like a hawk. If they were in the same company, one would be moved more than likely to the other side of Mother B. The accussed would also be told or issued a military protective order to not have contact with her, stay away from her, etc. (essentially its a restraining order of sorts).

The academies have tackled this issue head on IMPO. Alot of these incidences are so hard to clearly understand because there is often alcohol involved and sometimes are reported days, months, years later, and we only get half the picture of what happened in media (not true in all cases, but in these cases I think this is true). There are a great deal more females on the Yard these days then even when I was there. This is a better reflection of the fleet, but also provides more opportunities for mentorship and an outlet for females to report incidences. There are tons of outlets to report incidences to, not just the chain of command. Chaplains, professors, O reps, anyone! Sexual assault is taken very seriously.

Casey,

I think your view of the world will start to change in the next few years. Yes, USMA, just like USNA when I was there is male dominated. Infantry plays a large role in that. As a Marine our first job is to learn to be a basic rifle platoon commander, just as every enlisted Marine learns to become a basic rifleman. It is the core tenant of the USMC. I would venture to say it is also in the Army. Every job in the Army and Marine Corps outside of the infantry is made to support the folks on the ground fighting the fight, which is the grunts or anyone acting in that capacity. TBS has the same mentality that if you don't want to in the infantry then you are wrong. Well as a female that isn't an option. It is a mindset, not a reality. In fact I think out of 250 Marines we had 30 infantry spots. Not everyone can be in the infantry, but it is the core tenant of being a soldier or Marine. Trust me as service selection approaches and you move through the ranks at West Point, you will see the reality that not everyone wants to be in the infantry. Most of it is alot of talk and hype from young, eager, guys full of testosterone.

I was not familiar with the term trou... at USNA, WUBA is the derogatory term for females. I never once had an upperclassman or Mid call me that to my face, but it is used in conversation. Next year when you become an upperclass correct those who use the term, call them on the carpet. They know better and trust me it won't happen twice. In the USMC it is WM. Some of the older SNCOs used that term once when talking to me to reference another female Marine. I used to ask them if "M&Ms was an appropriate term for male Marines?" They would say no, then they got my point quickly and I never heard it again. You can't change the planet, but you can make a lasting effect on those around you. Best of luck and congrats on finishing up plebe year.
 
Don't get me wrong, its not like it was in 1976 when the Academy first opened, and its nothing that your daughter wouldn't be able to deal with. I don't want to paint the picture that the Academy is horribly out against women, because its not. I have met some of the most amazing officers, men and women here, and the same with cadets. You just have to take things as a grain of salt.




There's a similar origin but completely different connotation coming from WP. Its not a very positive thing for women. Guys would get funny looks if they used it to actually refer to a woman around here for the most part, but it still exists as part of the vernacular.

Or you're not even being forthright with that. Two nights ago I was standing at the Firstie Club with two awesome future LTs from '12 (both female) and had a hilarious discussion of the "Trou" concept, Gray Wings, and the best Trou jokes. It's more than just some antiquated part of the vernacular.

The best thing about it is how the girls embrace it and make it their own. There are Old Trou t-shirts (a play on Old Grad) and some classmates of mine ran a Warrior Dash as Team Trou.

It's alive and well, in good and bad ways.
 
And "BAM" is still used but not in hearing distance or she might rip your throat out. My daughter had some great male MIDS as company mates and they would never tolerate anything like this happening to anyone in their company. Like LITS said 99.44% will not tolerate this.
 
Sexual Assaults (committed within the military) undermine the very foundation that our organization is built on -- trust.

I wholeheartedly agree with what has been said that these crimes are not brought upon the victim by choice and the assault is never the fault of the victim.

When it comes to real rapes and false reports of rapes, it again is simple leadership. You let people know from the start that all claims will be investigated and prosecuted. Real and False! Lying will be punished too!

TPG, I disagree that this is a "simple" leadership issue, as you state. How do you prove that an alleged victim "cried rape?" What if it is a he said/she said? Just because the alleged suspect is "not guilty" doesn't mean the alleged victim lied. So I am curious on how one could ever prove that the alleged victim blatantly lied (the probability of proving it would be very low). I would also presume that if investigations started holding the alleged victim accountable (for lying), then some victims would be less likely to report assaults (i.e. back to square one) for fear that if there is any doubt, the tide will turn on them.

We (military) also need to tread carefully on how we investigate alleged offenses. We do a great job of throwing the ALLEGED suspect and their careers under the bus, convicting them in the court of media and public opinion, even before a court martial is convened. If the alleged suspect is found "not guilty" then his/her career is normally ruined anyways, an injustice. I also see undue command influence as a potential problem, given the extra emphasis on this problem from the entire chain of command; the pressure that is going to be placed on Commanders and Commanding Officers to hold alleged offenders accountable.

It would be nice if ALL of our military members would act as true brothers and sisters to eliminate this problem -- it's an issue of trust.
 
Sexual Assaults (committed within the military) undermine the very foundation that our organization is built on -- trust.

I wholeheartedly agree with what has been said that these crimes are not brought upon the victim by choice and the assault is never the fault of the victim.



TPG, I disagree that this is a "simple" leadership issue, as you state. How do you prove that an alleged victim "cried rape?" What if it is a he said/she said? Just because the alleged suspect is "not guilty" doesn't mean the alleged victim lied. So I am curious on how one could ever prove that the alleged victim blatantly lied (the probability of proving it would be very low). I would also presume that if investigations started holding the alleged victim accountable (for lying), then some victims would be less likely to report assaults (i.e. back to square one) for fear that if there is any doubt, the tide will turn on them.

We (military) also need to tread carefully on how we investigate alleged offenses. We do a great job of throwing the ALLEGED suspect and their careers under the bus, convicting them in the court of media and public opinion, even before a court martial is convened. If the alleged suspect is found "not guilty" then his/her career is normally ruined anyways, an injustice. I also see undue command influence as a potential problem, given the extra emphasis on this problem from the entire chain of command; the pressure that is going to be placed on Commanders and Commanding Officers to hold alleged offenders accountable.

It would be nice if ALL of our military members would act as true brothers and sisters to eliminate this problem -- it's an issue of trust.

Better than 10 guilty go free than 1 innocent go to jail.

Our entire justice system is built upon this foundation, that the accuser MUST prove, BEYOND a reasonable doubt, that a crime occurred..

Not just "I think the accuser is more believable" (preponderance of the evidence) but beyond a reasonable doubt.

If there is ANY question as to whether or not the crime actually occurred, the accused MUST go free.

Otherwise, we might as well trash everything our system stands for.
 
Better than 10 guilty go free than 1 innocent go to jail.

Our entire justice system is built upon this foundation, that the accuser MUST prove, BEYOND a reasonable doubt, that a crime occurred..

Not just "I think the accuser is more believable" (preponderance of the evidence) but beyond a reasonable doubt.

If there is ANY question as to whether or not the crime actually occurred, the accused MUST go free.

Otherwise, we might as well trash everything our system stands for.

+1000
 
Better than 10 guilty go free than 1 innocent go to jail.

Our entire justice system is built upon this foundation, that the accuser MUST prove, BEYOND a reasonable doubt, that a crime occurred..

Not just "I think the accuser is more believable" (preponderance of the evidence) but beyond a reasonable doubt.

If there is ANY question as to whether or not the crime actually occurred, the accused MUST go free.

Otherwise, we might as well trash everything our system stands for.

Not quite. It's not "any question." That would be to prove a crime occurred beyond ALL doubt, vs. a reasonable doubt.

But I agree with your premise.
 
tpg,

NCIS does do the investigating (generally), but should the Sexual Assault be referred to a GCM, the investigating officer for the Article 32 hearing, makes a recommendation (along with the SJA) to the FOGO. He/she can choose how to proceed. So therefore, while the investigation might be handled outside the military chain-of-command, the ultimate decision to pursue legal action is within.

Can't help to think of the Lamar Owens case and the military judges blast on the Superintendent's email to All Hands at USNA, for partial undue command influence.
 
tpg,

Yes in a slight manner, the email sent to All Hands never stated the suspect was alleged. Essentially the email accused Lamar Owens of committing the assault before he ever went to the Article 32 or court-martial. The perception was that the Superintendent was communicating his thoughts with potential members of the court martial jury = undue command influence.

He subsequently was found "not guilty" of rape BUT guilty of two other charges (i.e. inappropriate pictures on his computer and violation of a military protective order), with the officer panel still deciding "no punishment." As we know, he subsequently was ADSEP, not sure the exact reason, but it wasn't due to any of the charges at the court-martial since "no punishment" was the verdict.

That is why I say we need to be careful when investigating alleged crimes.

I think the important things to remember are: (1) any alleged victim needs to be given the due care and attention that they deserve, if they so choose (medical, support, chaplain, etc). The SARC program has gotten a lot better; (2) if the alleged victim chooses to pursue an investigation, it needs to be done thoroughly and fairly; (3) if charges are brought forth, we should hold the alleged victim and perpetrators name in the strictest confidentiality until the outcome of the case; (4) let's let our military justice system work.
 
He subsequently was found "not guilty" of rape BUT guilty of two other charges (i.e. inappropriate pictures on his computer and violation of a military protective order), with the officer panel still deciding "no punishment." As we know, he subsequently was ADSEP, not sure the exact reason, but it wasn't due to any of the charges at the court-martial since "no punishment" was the verdict.

And was any punishment given by Rempf to the female who made the false charge?

A female midshipman's claims of rape were not believed by the jury at court-martial. Even the military judge admonished the prosecution for presenting a poor and "anemic" case.

No, she wasn't, Owens’ accuser was granted immunity from punishment for her apparent violations.

Seemed a little one-sided to kick Owens out for "conduct unbecoming of an officer" while letting the female mid who made the false accusation stay.
 
On the topic subject, the Academy wrapped up another court martial of a MIDN yesterday. The accused MIDN was found guilty of wrongful sexual contact, but not guilty of rape. Sentencing is scheduled for next week.

Maximum Punishment for Wrongful Sexual Contact: Dishonorable Discharge (Dismissal), confinement for 1 yr, and forfeiture of all pay and allowances.

Maximum Punishment for Rape: Dishonorable Discharge (Dismissal), death or confinement for Life, and forfeiture of all pay and allowances.

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/04/navy-midshipman-sex-case-sentencing-postponed-042812w/

Luigi,

I wouldn't say the alleged victim made a false accusation, there was not enough evidence to convict of rape -- a unique difference. If we always label the alleged victim of making false accusations, upon no conviction, then they will never want to come forward. This is part of the culture that the SECDEF (and we) want to change.
 
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goldenlion,

thank you so much for posting your story. i also am sending my dd to a sa this summer. what in the world to i tell my dd to prevent her from being assaulted? she doesn't drink and it gave me some comfort that she probably wouldn't find herself in a situation where she is too drunk to fight off an attack. but after your post i realize that if someone else is drinking and you're just at the wrong place at the wrong time it really doesn't matter.

i guess the best thing i could tell her is to never be in a situation where you're alone with a member of the opposite sex who's intoxicated. if she ever is attacked i will tell her to report it asap and to try to leave a nail mark across his face so he can't hide.

i pray with all the attention this subject is getting, that something will finally be done for victims of sexual assault in the military. but sadly after tailhook and other occurances, it doesn't appear that anything has changed to protect the women from being attacked or to aide them in getting justice in the event that the unspeakable does occur.
 
Another Thanks to Goldenlion

Just wanted to add another note of thanks to Goldenlion for sharing your story in your powerful and courageous post.

There's better knowledge than there has ever been but acquaintance rape still unfortunately sometimes occurs on college campuses or in any environment where you have the ingedients of people of the opposite sex and availability of alcohol. None of us know the truth of these particular allegations, but I hope people can keep an open mind about acquaintance rape as a phenomenon.

Thanks again, Goldenlion.
 
but sadly after tailhook and other occurances, it doesn't appear that anything has changed to protect the women from being attacked or to aide them in getting justice in the event that the unspeakable does occur.
That is incorrect.

Realize that the tailhook incident happened more than 20 years ago. There are multiple training courses and many resources available to both prevent sexual assault and deal with it when it does occur. They don't always work the way we want them to, but they are there and are being worked on very frequently.

If the victim wants the case investigated as a crime, they can go to anyone in their chain of command, security forces, the Sexual Assault Response Coordinator, etc.
If they want it to remain outside of the legal sphere, they can go to the SARC or Chaplains.
If the investigative or reporting process is done incorrectly, the Air Force Inspector General can be called in for review and oversight beyond the normal channels.
 
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Not to make light of the topic, but I read a lot of worries being posted. I have a son graduating the air force academy in 3 weeks. My daughter graduated state university 3 years ago. We have a few female friends currently at the academy. (small town, we all know everyone). Bottom line. We've heard a lot more alcohol and sex related episodes from my daughter from state university than my son or female friends at the academy. And my daughter was a resident advisor in the dorm for 4 years, so she would know. If u r going to be worried, I'd be more worried at a civilian school than at a service academy.

Again, not making light of the topic, but worries are simply being a bit over rated. It's definitely safer at the academy than in a civilian school. And being concerned about reporting at the academy because upper classmen can retaliate is simply not realistic. The other upper classmen simply wouldn't not tolerate that. I won't speak of 20-30 years ago when I first went into the air force, but I would trust my daughter more at the academy than a civilian school.
 
" i also am sending my dd to a sa this summer. what in the world to i tell my dd to prevent her from being assaulted? "

The same thing you would tell her if she was going to civilian college. Don't drink (not just because you might not be able to fight off an assailant but, more importantly, because when people drink too much they often do stupid things and make stupid decisions that they later regret); don't accept open drinks at parties; hang out with people you trust; and develop a circle of friends that will look out for you (and you and your friends should come up with specific systems to keep an eye on each other at parties and such).
 
How about also telling them to not drink because its AGAINST the LAW. At least for 99.99% of all incoming freshman.
 
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