Shortage of Army Officers

Well, after some quick research on the Sports Illustrated ten best party schools list I find that nine of the ten - Arizona State, University of Wisconsin, San Diego State University, Florida State, Santa Barbara, Georgia, Tennessee, Indiana, Ohio University - all have ROTC programs. The tenth, McGill, is in Canada and so we won’t count that one.

And I’ve also read the descriptions of the social activities, and seen photos of the those same events, and I’m here to report that I’ve been totally mistaken. These places really have changed since I attended college. Saddle shoes are back in style, DA haircuts are all the rage, the kids are bobbing to the Charleston and the Twist, and soda pop is the Friday night beverage of choice.

Now I'm not so naive to believe that there aren't those who might sneak a beer or two into a dance, but clearly they're only a tiny, almost infinitesimal minority; and I'm certain that nobody in the ROTC program would even think of taking a sip of those intoxicating liquids. I know my own son never does anything like that when he visits his buddies down in San Diego, even though he says otherwise.

You see, as a parent of a teenager I know that when he says he and his ROTC buddies went crazy in Tijuana I know he's just pulling my leg and trying to get a reaction out of me. Naturally, it doesn't work and I just chuckle; I know the guys were just down there helping out at the orphanage. Those dang kids, they really just crack me up!
 
Yes, especially after all of "the parties, the booze, the debauchery, the absolute freedom, and the puking". :rolleyes:

Don't be too quick to assume. MIT isn't Antioch or Queens College. You seriously have to study to get through the place.

I suspect other Ivy-League-caliber schools would be equally tough. So, while I think the statement "USxA is harder to get through than almost any civilian college" is true, the "almost" needs to be treated with due respect until the facts are known.
 
Chip, I agree with you about The Citadel, Norwich, Texas A&M, VMI, North Georgia, Virginia Tech, and the state Maritime Academies, because they're not the same as a civilian college.....unless I'm wrong and they are as some of the responders seem to imply.

Smiley, you have explicitely stated that we have two classes of schools, those with a 4% attrition rate because they have "the parties, the booze, the debauchery, the absolute freedom, and the puking" out of their system and those with a 34% rate because they have not yet experienced "the parties, the booze, the debauchery, the absolute freedom, and the puking". Are you now telling us that there is a third class, those with a 4% attrition rate who somehow do not require "the parties, the booze, the debauchery, the absolute freedom, and the puking"?

To what do you attribute the statistics of this third class? Perhaps they are more mature and more goal oriented than some of the "free ride" WP alumni? Or do you have another reason?

The bear continues to defy description.
 
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Arizona State, University of Wisconsin, San Diego State University, Florida State, Santa Barbara, Georgia, Tennessee, Indiana, Ohio University - all have ROTC programs.

So do both Oral Roberts and Liberty Universities.

You see, as a parent of a teenager I know that when he says he and his ROTC buddies went crazy in Tijuana!

I'm not quite sure why you are including your personal family history here. I assume that this is your WP son to which you are referring.

Apparently, he along with his ROTC buddies were both able to sign off on a certain percentage of the mandatory "the parties, the booze, the debauchery, the absolute freedom, and the puking" quotas. Therefore, unless your son is being more proactive than the average Woop, you are being contradictive by pointing out that "ptbtdtafatp" are, at times, available to WP students as well as the ROTC cadets. Could you be inadvertently implying that your son, since he has had a perhaps somewhat limited exposure to "tptbtdtafatp", will perhaps have an attrition rate that might be somewhere between 4% and 34%, with the final rate dependent upon both the amount and quality of "ptbtdtafatp" which he is able to absorb prior to graduation?

For such a thin skinned bear, none of the normal critical take-down points seem to work.
 
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Caution!!!! This in no way states my true impression of either West Point or AROTC. It is simply the logical conclusion of an absurd line of reasoning presented in this thread. Caution!!!!!!

Smiley, I have had an epiphany (Don't worry. When a candidate used it on me this week, I had to look it up with all it's meanings also) We could be rich if we can just somehow get the Army to listen to us.

Establish a minimum SAT/GPA for all those high school seniors who are interested in becoming an Army Officer.

Line them up in a column, both arms bent at the elbow, with palms facing upwards.

First go through the line examining the palms of the hand of each candidate. Those exhibiting scars of stove burner rings will be sent directly to West Point.

The remainder, assuming from their SATs/GPA probably have powers of logic and reasoning, and would thrive in the ROTC environment. We simply have to ask them to rate on a scale of one to ten how important "ptbtdtafatp" is in their lives, and utilizing the party school list in Sports Illustrated, place them accordingly.
 
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"Caution!!!! This in no way states my true impression of either West Point or AROTC. It is simply the logical conclusion of an absurd line of reasoning presented in this thread. Caution!!!!!!"

Is this a warning to you, because it is obvious to even the most casual observer that there is nothing you like, admire, or respect about West Point or those who attend, and that there is absolutely nothing that is going to alter your view on that point. But you live for that don't you, USNA69. Somehow, and in your own strange world, it gives your life the meaning it's lacking elsewhere.

How utterly sad. You have my deepest and most sincere condolences.
 
You are yet to grasp any rudiments of understanding about what I am saying. Therefore, I find it truly comical that you are now trying to understand what I think. Like most of the interactions between the two of us, you continually to be totally in error. But thanks for the condolences. I never miss the opportunity to pass up a good one.

Is the bear dying?
 
"Like most of the interactions between the two of us, you continually to be totally in error."

You present an insulting statement that you elevate in your own mind to near fact and you are soundly and repeatedly rebutted.

You then "discover" holes in a tongue-in-cheek alternative, cry eureka, and suddenly feel you are "Master of the Universe". What genius!

Is the bear dying? Hardly. He simply doesn't share your insatiable appetite for @#$% &*()&^%$#$%.
 
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wow. you guys have been having fun while I was away.....

So let's see - someone begins a quest at the age of 18 or 19 or 20. Completes 4 years of schooling and 5 years on the job.
At the end of 9 years this person is probably not on the job for the same reason this person began the quest.
So why bail?
Why does anyone make a major life change in careers?
Job Satisfaction. yep. simple as that.
Now think about why and what the Army can do about it.

tomorrow - part II.
 
USNA69 - your assessment was inaccurate and flippant. Anyone with a basic statistics course should understand that correlation does not equal causation.

You seem to be ignoring my take on the gist of the entire article. I don't quite know what you are attempting to state concerning my basic understanding of statistics. However, according to the article, if, in 2005, one had lined 100 Captains, ROTC, Class of 2000 on one side of the parade field and on the other side, facing them, 100 Captains, WP Class of 2000, and then asked all those resigning their commissions to step forward, the group on the Academy side would be 7 times as large as the group on the ROTC side. Why is this? This has been my question all along. If you say it is job satisfaction, why are WP grads subject to 7 times the rate of job dissatisfaction as ROTC grads?
 
wow. you guys have been having fun while I was away.....

So let's see - someone begins a quest at the age of 18 or 19 or 20. Completes 4 years of schooling and 5 years on the job.
At the end of 9 years this person is probably not on the job for the same reason this person began the quest.
So why bail?
Why does anyone make a major life change in careers?
Job Satisfaction. yep. simple as that.
Now think about why and what the Army can do about it.

It is more than job satisfaction. Some want careers with more money, others want stability (in terms of time home), others want more family time, others just want a change.

An online buddy of mine once said that when you are 18-20, you have more of your life left than you've lived, so you figure "What they hey!". When you get older, though, you become less prone to risk the dwindling days you have left. IOW, times change, as do attitudes, desires, and ambitions.

Still, I can assure you that (at least in my day) what you saw while at USxA wasn't quite what you saw in the Service, so that may be a factor, too.
 
You seem to be ignoring my take on the gist of the entire article. I don't quite know what you are attempting to state concerning my basic understanding of statistics. However, according to the article, if, in 2005, one had lined 100 Captains, ROTC, Class of 2000 on one side of the parade field and on the other side, facing them, 100 Captains, WP Class of 2000, and then asked all those resigning their commissions to step forward, the group on the Academy side would be 7 times as large as the group on the ROTC side. Why is this? This has been my question all along. If you say it is job satisfaction, why are WP grads subject to 7 times the rate of job dissatisfaction as ROTC grads?

That IS the question, and until it is answered, the problem will remain.
 
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