So who watched the story on 60 Minutes about the Navy's readiness tonight?

[justdoit19]

…and then I listen to the stories, a friend who works at the pentagon on a special task that seeks to sniff out and find and recoup (hahah) misspent federal Covid fund. By the MILLIONS. And years later.

Where there is money, there is corruption.

And there is money out there. And massive corruption. Always will be.

 

[NJROTC-CC]

It would be less costly to defeat China by cutting off all trade and crippling their economy (yes, I know it would hurt our economy too, but China has a three to one trade surplus with us so it would hurt them more than us) than it would be to spend what it would cost us to build up our military to a size needed to defeat China in a war. Not to mention how costly a war would be in itself. Time to put economic pressure on China via trade and diplomacy.

 

[Gnarlygoat27]

Where there is money, there is corruption.

And there is money out there. And massive corruption. Always will be.

True that! My first job out of college was with a business interior design firm and one of the biggest clients was DoD to furnish offices and medical spaces all over the region (Hampton roads, military every where you look). The amount of waste that went on because if ANYONE had excess money at the end of the fiscal year they’d find something to spend it on in September ($900 Aeron chairs by the dozens) rather than turn it in. Because then their budget would be reduced the next year. And that’s on the tiniest of scales. Down the street the billion dollar ships were falling apart.

 

[A1Janitor]

True that! My first job out of college was with a business interior design firm and one of the biggest clients was DoD to furnish offices and medical spaces all over the region (Hampton roads, military every where you look). The amount of waste that went on because if ANYONE had excess money at the end of the fiscal year they’d find something to spend it on in September ($900 Aeron chairs by the dozens) rather than turn it in. Because then their budget would be reduced the next year. And that’s on the tiniest of scales. Down the street the billion dollar ships are falling apart.

A contentious issue when I did government audits.

Prevailing wage is another. Paying workers triple the fmv. A small town near me paying 800k for a concession stand - a kitchen, some bathrooms. No second floor. Open floor plan.

You could build a 4k square foot house for half that.

 

[USMC8993]

If only it were that simple. The US already taxes corporations at among the highest rates in the world. When corporations are taxed, too high, they tend to be less competitive, fail outright or move to a more economical environment. The rich look like a great target but they're already paying the majority of the tax bill already. The media and other advocates do muddy the waters by pointing toward the lower taxes on so-called "passive income" such as dividend but remember that the dividend was ALREADY taxed when it was corporate income so it is double taxation on the same money.
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That said, while I'd love to say "just spend more carefully" and "eliminate waste" type of things, the mismatch between current receipts (taxes) and the budget is just too large for that to be viable and remember, many corners (such as defense) are UNDERFUNDED/STARVED even with the budget that we have now. An example of this is the Navy Surface Fleet - if you DOUBLED the spending on new ships, you might (MIGHT) catch up with the fleet size that is considered to be the minimum acceptable and even that would take increases in maintenance and doesn't address the falling apart barracks and facilities which have long been sacrificed to keep ships at sea. That is a microcosm of the rest of DoD.
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Simply, our appetite is much larger than our means so more money is needed. I truly believe if we try to do it by just cutting back then the ramifications will be much more severe than just about anyone can see.

I agree with everything you've said. This country was the strongest in the world when industry was raging and workers were being abused. The unions fought to protect the workers but now the pendulum has swung too far the other way and factory workers are overpaid and union dues don't help the cost of manufacturing in this country. Factory work is also not an attractive career for most young Americans, which I'm sure can be appreciated on a Service Academy forum of parents and applicants seeking "white collar" futures. Bottom line...too many people drawing money without putting anything of substance into the system. Too much imported, bad trade agreements ( and bad fiscal foreign policy IMO), not enough industry, too much inflated wages and cost for goods, fraud waste and abuse at federal and state levels. How to fix it? The country and it's people have to want to fix and there needs to be a shift. In reality, this IS about a lack of LEADERSHIP.

 

[Small Team Bacsi]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/03/22/military-recruiting-shortfalls/

We don’t want to pay more , as a country we don’t want to serve. The problem is us not China. We as a country have become greedy fat and lazy.

And the problem is not Walmart shoppers buying cheap China made goods.

The worlds most expensive military actually costs a lot of money. We will pay or we won’t.

And I bet the move to increase taxes for those making over $400,000 a year fails. The rich certainly don’t serve you might think they could pay a little more Or even some?

Not in the country we now have.

 

[Kierkegaard]

Perhaps we can all at least agree that this is not the way to save money:

 

[USMC8993]

Perhaps we can all at least agree that this is not the way to save money:

View attachment 13723

Politically that would piss a lot of people off but the truth is that there are A LOT of vets out there living quite well by riding the benefits train hard...100% rating, while working good paying, full-time GS jobs and some have military retirement on top of that. I believe the rule is that if you are rated 50% or above, your disability pay is not deducted from your military retirement pay. I don't really want to go down the rabbit hole of discussing morality of what vets should be claiming or not but there is no shortage of sketchiness in this sector of spending either. Really it's pretty hard to argue that you need disability payments if you are making $170K or more. Those vets would still get to keep all the other medical benefits.

 

[gonavy14]

The US doesn't have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem.

 

[aetosArmy]

There are some really good thoughts on here.
My main thoughts after reading through this discussion are:
1. The end goal in solving economic problems should not be political/economic competition with China. We are in a completely different economic situation with China (or any other state), and we shouldn't measure the effectiveness of policy by whether or not it's "beating the Chinese". China is a highly developed country with well over a billion inhabitants, and their explosive economic growth is mainly due to a previous dormancy, meaning it will plateau eventually. What I'm trying to say is, American economic problems need to be solved at a pace that the American people and system can support. No drastic change of foreign OR internal policy is going to suddenly propel the U.S. to previous heights of global dominance; the rest of the world is catching up.
2. Don't only look at failures (inflation (this is always going to be a reality guys), bad public infrastructure in some areas, crime, corruption(always present in a large state)). Look at what we've been able to achieve (EXCELLENT healthcare and quality of life, more-than-satisfactory or necessary social security benefits, good roads(trust me guys having lived in other countries I know what bad roads look like), government programs for the needy and our Vets, a flourishing middle class (despite how we complain), clean water/air(mostly), and a coveted military with comparatively good leadership, technological excellence, and exceptional ideals). Could money spent on these successes be better managed? Yes. But keep in mind that EVERY country that ever did and will exist has problems with budget management and distribution, the US being fortunately lower on the list due to high transparency in our government.
3. Improvements in military budget management might not manifest as many on here probably envision. Increased spending on industry (arms, warships, and tech advancements) would likely lead to notably less luxurious military office workspaces, barracks, and other military infrastructure. After all, there is only so much money to go around.

I'm not going to give my opinion on the best tax or trade policy for the U.S. because that is beside the point. I do agree, however, that we live in a relatively "spoiled" society, and we enjoy numerous luxuries that, if not provided by our generous government, could be better used towards the building of an industrial powerhouse. The issue is, most of us aren't willing to give up world-class healthcare and other public services for that.
I've included a pie chart of Federal spending to provide perspective for some of these ideas. Looking at the right half makes my jaw drop.

 

[USMC8993]

The US doesn't have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem.

That's a very subjective viewpoint that I don't necessarily disagree with. A good portion of households in this country can make a similar argument.

 

[Dr. Strange Love]

IMO this is crazy talk...I'm paying high taxes and don't want to pay more tax to a government that isn't efficient with the current GDP and foot the bill that should be paid for by the industrial engine. The government can't squeeze industry much more or they leave. The real issue in this country is inflation. Inflated wages make it very hard for an American company to compete with foreign manufacturing and raise to he cost of everything we buy. We have tuned into a nation of consumers and not producers for that reason. Our trade agreements are still not favorable, I don't know to fix it but it's not taxes and young people are not lining up to do blue collar factory work. We have become spoiled, sensitive and soft and lazy.

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Interest Rates are the solution …. No more bowing to the whining Wall Street execs and the Bubble Economy.

We need a Fed with a backbone. Powell and the rest of the Board should hike rates to somewhere between 6-7% … and keep them there … this is the natural range of interest on Money … This will force people to Work and Save.

No more of the Scamming economy … and No more Government handouts.

Make the value of the $1 worth something for Gods sake …. It’s been a crying shame for far too long.

After we fix interest rates and the value of the $1 … which will fix a lot of other problems and ills by proxy … we are left with fewer harder problems to solve … like working on Americas industrial base to keep our lead over the Chicoms.
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[aetosArmy]

.
Interest Rates are the solution …. No more bowing to the whining Wall Street execs and the Bubble Economy.

We need a Fed with a backbone. Powell and the rest of the Board should hike rates to somewhere between 6-7% … and keep them there … this is the natural range of interest on Money … This will force people to Work and Save.

No more of the Scamming economy … and No more Government handouts.

Make the value of the $1 worth something for Gods sake …. It’s been a crying shame for far too long.

After we fix interest rates and the value of the $1 … which will fix a lot of other problems and ills by proxy … we are left with fewer harder problems to solve … like working on Americas industrial base to keep our lead over the Chicoms.
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Considering that the US dollar is in the top 10 highest value currencies in the world, I can't see how that's an issue.

 

[Dr. Strange Love]

Considering that the US dollar is in the top 10 highest value currencies in the world, I can't see how that's an issue.

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Value in the $1 … that is … holding Cash rather than holding other “Risk assets” … it’s the “Risk Premium”

A higher interest rate would naturally discourage and control Ill and Misplaced capital behavior. It would naturally tamper Bubble markets.

It would encourage prudent business and household behavior. Holding cash would mean something again. No more crazy leverage and high debt.

The middle to lower half would be better off wealth wise. Stock buy backs would be a thing of the past.

Investing in the future would be Real again because every decision comes at a cost … well thought out … no more bubble behavior.
.

 

[aetosArmy]

.
Value in the $1 … that is … holding Cash rather than holding other “Risk assets” … it’s the “Risk Premium”

A higher interest rate would naturally discourage and control Ill and Misplaced capital behavior. It would naturally tamper Bubble markets.

It would encourage prudent business and household behavior. Holding cash would mean something again. No more crazy leverage and high debt.

The middle to lower half would be better off wealth wise. Stock buy backs would be a thing of the past.

Investing in the future would be Real again because every decision comes at a cost … well thought out … no more bubble behavior.
.

I see your point now. Good thoughts.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

Maybe we should be less obsessed with paying as little in the way of taxes as we can and just pay for the needed improvements with taxes.

Oh, we play plenty in taxes ..... (I just got my tax return done !)
It's more a matter of where tax money is used -- why are we spending so much oversees for social programs when the money can be used for defense.

The next big one isn't going to be like the last big one where we had 5 years to fully mobilize, build a massive military and crush the enemy with US industrial power. It's going to be short, very violent, and the the side that comes in well equipped, well trained and ready to fight is the side that is going to come out ahead. Nobody is going to win-- there is a reason that the deterrence philosophy has worked for 70 years. The problem is China perceives us as weak , and the will continue to push the limits, including retaking Taiwan, if they think they can get away with it.

 

[JDBx3]

We need to stop doing business with China if they don’t behave. They have a 3-1 trade surplus with us. China needs the US way more than we need them.

The entire world trades with China. China does not need the U.S. as a market. However, the U.S. has most definitely put itself in the position of needing China. Few nations have outsourced such critical and non-critical manufacturing to China as the USA has done. From pharmaceuticals to parts necessary to operate our electrical grid to many links in our food chain supply, China has a stranglehold on America. China’s worldwide markets continue to expand exponentially while America’s reliance on others does the same.

 

[Kentucky9]

My wife and myself work, pay taxes, and outside of Naval Academy acceptance/prep debt and taxes await our sons before they step foot in a college class. They qualify for nothing but their share of 30 trillion in tributary national debt.

30 trillion dollars in debt, and every time a steel mill closes a politician gets richer. 30
Trillion dollars and debt and no place to find a middle class job, nor an incentive after taxes to acquire one!

I see hope that the service academies will keep their moral codes, their traditions, and their high schools ideals! The future of this country depends on it.,

 

[Day-Tripper]

We need to stop doing business with China if they don’t behave. They have a 3-1 trade surplus with us. China needs the US way more than we need them.

Which is why China won't invade Taiwan.

 

[A1Janitor]

Which is why China won't invade Taiwan.

Apparently they won’t have to.