Social media post resulted in my DQ from AFROTC

Discussion in 'DoDMERB' started by AGRESSOR316, Jan 30, 2019.

  1. AGRESSOR316

    AGRESSOR316 New Member

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    I was in my sophomore year in AFROTC at the time of the incident. I made a post where I was posing with guns. Some saw the post and over-reacted and thought I was potentially a danger to myself and/or others. I didn't say anything to indicate that. I was not pointing a gun at myself. Someone saw the post at my detachment. The next day, an officer with my detachment, along with the police showed up at my house. I'm living with my parents. The police informed me, by law they had to take me into custody and monitored for 72 hours, and evaluated by a psychiatrist. I realize it was bad judgment on my part posting what I did. I wasn't thinking about how others may view my post.

    I was released from the behavioral clinic 72 hours later. The psychiatrist evaluation stated that I was not suicidal, required no medication, and cleared back to school without restrictions. My detachment stated that I needed to forward records to DODMERB for review. After a period of time, I called DODMERB and found out my waiver had been declined. Apparently my detachment had requested a waiver since it was an isolated incident. The reason given for DQ was "suicidality with hospitalization".

    I met with my commander with a list of questions regarding the decision for this DQ. We called the Surgeon General's office, AETC. The reason they gave for DQ was "prone to depression and anxiety".
    After reading the regulation, DQ for anxiety and depression are the same: outpatient care longer than 12 consecutive months, symptoms or treatment within the last 36 months, any inpatient treatment in a hospital or residential facility, or any suicidality.

    I have been cleared by a psychiatrist stating that I was/am not suicidal, or suffering from depression or anxiety and I've submitted these records. So I'm out of AFROTC and have to apply for OTS upon graduating. I'm confused now how to answer the questions on the medical history when I apply. For the blocks for: have you ever suffered from depression, anxiety, or have you ever contemplated suicide? I can honestly answer no to these but I don't want DODMERB to DQ me for "lying" from their point of view. I guess I'll have to wait 36 months from the date of this incident to apply for OTS? Not sure how to proceed. I'd appreciate any advice.
    Thank you.
     
  2. cptenca

    cptenca Member

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    First, I would not rely on any advice you get from a public forum, including mine. Second, I would contact an attorney that specializes in military admissions: quick google should get you someone that offers a free consultation. Third, realize that you are fighting an uphill battle and may need to adjust your career goals and ambitions. If you gain entry to the military you are going to have to address this issue when applying for a clearance and possibly at other times in your career. You need to decide if this career is for you.
     
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  3. Tex232

    Tex232 Member

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    I can’t give you advice as far as the medical questions but I do find this story a little strange to be honest. What exactly was the nature of the Facebook post that made the law get involved? If, as you claim, you were simply posing with weapons in the picture then it sounds to me like somebody was being an a**hole and just giving you a hard time. There’s nothing illegal about that. And the part about the police being “required by law” to take you into custody also sounds like BS. So what’s the entire story here?
     
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  4. AGRESSOR316

    AGRESSOR316 New Member

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    I was suprised by the cops the next morning that they just came and took me. My parents had to find out from a family attorney that they had to take me in by law. Plus they gave me a copy of the order signed by a judge. So that's not BS. I believe it was an over-reaction on the part of the detachment to include law enforcement when the my deputy commander came to my house. I agree it is strange circumstances.
     
  5. A1Janitor

    A1Janitor Member

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    Were there any words in the post?

    What state are you in? What law was cited?
     
  6. AGRESSOR316

    AGRESSOR316 New Member

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    Texas and nothing was said in the post.
     
  7. Blessedmom

    Blessedmom Member

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    My MIDN son has friends who are avid hunters and I have seen few of his friends post pics with guns, some are in the rifle & pistol club. Maybe your pic was inappropriate or very concerning? Whatever the case, you may need a good attorney to get your records cleared.
     
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  8. Tex232

    Tex232 Member

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    Agree.

    Also the fact that your detachment cadre came to your house is inappropriate. You're not in the military and not subject to the UCMJ, so there's no reason why they should have been there. I just feel as if there's something missing from the story here, and that's not necessarily your fault. The police just can't show up at your door one morning and "take you away", court order or not. About the only instance I can think of that would warrant this is if they had probable cause to believe you were going to commit a crime (i.e. go out and shoot up a school, etc.). Otherwise this sounds like a story out of Nazi Germany.
     
  9. Devil Doc

    Devil Doc Teufel Doc

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    Wowza, and in Texas.
     
  10. AGRESSOR316

    AGRESSOR316 New Member

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    Court order was issued because they were afraid I was endanger of harming myself or others.
     
  11. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator 5-Year Member

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    There had to be something in that post to leave that impression. It had to be far more than look at me practicing my shooting, or look at me hunting.
     
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  12. justdoit19

    justdoit19 Member

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    Or, could have been in combination with things said or overheard outside of the post. IOW, the whole package of behavior, rightly or wrongly. Just one idea as to how it could seeminly stem from 'just a FB pic'. BC it may not have. We don't have all the info at all. But, the advice is the same, to get help from professionals who deal with this kind of thing. We can only speculate. And are only hearing one side of the story. Which could be completely spot on. The advice, however, stays the same.
     
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  13. Pima

    Pima 10-Year Member

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    I am sorry this happened to you. However, I am with others something had to be there. As a parent I would already have a lawsuit pending against the police dept., the district attorney and the judge that signed off on this for ruining my child's future, starting from not only his potential military professional career, but since this is a legal matter (police took you involuntarily) any future employer can google your name in a search and it will pop up, thus potentially from a civilian employee aspect.

    Not to be harsh, but don't fool yourself any reputable employer will do a search, including police records. According to you there is a police report that was signed by a judge.
    ~ I can google my BIL's name and the 1st thing that comes up is his divorce. No police action, just court documents regarding his divorce. I don't pay the search companies where you can get deeper info than just their name and address. Many employees do pay someone, be it in their company or a 3 rd party to do just that type of screening.

    I hope the lesson learned here is that lock down your social media. Your generation believes in accepting anyone that sends a friend request. You post more photos than you can shake a stick at, with everybody being tagged in the photo. My generation limits the friends because we know the dangers of social media.

    When our DS was in AFROTC they had a FB page for the det. Every cadet joined that page. What they didn't realize was that it opened a backdoor for others in the unit, including the cadre. They are my generation, we aren't really that stupid when it comes to checking up on social media.
    ~ You are friends with them via the det. You go to a party as a freshmen with friends that are not in ROTC. There is a keg, you have a red solo cup standing a few feet away from the keg. Your non-ROTC friend tags you in the pic. You are drinking soda out of that cup, but the image/illusion seen via that pic is it is filled with beer. They dig a little deeper and at a totally different function you are tag in you are hanging out with nothing in your hand, but the table is filled with empty beer bottles. Assumption again, you are drinking, even though there is nothing in the pic to show that you are, but some silly tag line did you get home alright last night...again, illusion when really all the other poster was saying you left by yourself and they were concerned for your physical safety. Now the cadre is really heightened by these pics. They now see another one of you at a Mexican restaurant with words saying Cinco De Mayo TIME TO PARTY with what looks like a margarita, but they do not know it was non-alcoholic.
    ~~ If you don't think that doesn't happen. I can tell you it does. It did happen at my DS's det. One Sunday night every cadet was called into report early the next day...rut-ro. The cadre had seen recent pics of a cadet drinking underage (beer in hand) from their FB page. There was a lecture, including pics of cadets that were tagged on other people's pages where the illusion could be mis-construed, but they all knew that now they were on the cadre's radar. DS said cadets immediately were removing friends from their FB account out of OMG it can be mis-construed and I can't risk this.

    This is also why this is an anonymous site, it is to protect your privacy.
     
  14. GoCubbies

    GoCubbies Member

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    If you answer "no", then DODMERB will think you're hiding something. DODMERB has everyone's record in a permanent database/file. They can go back to previous DODMERB exams and see what was answered yes/no in the past. DODMERB also knows you've been DQ'ed in the past and the reason.

    Best case scenario is you apply for OTS and get another DODMERB exam. You would then include ALL the paperwork from your inpatient hospitalization (or whatever it was). Your paperwork should include a recent eval that could summarize what happened to you. In that memo, it would have to say that you did not have any suicidal or homicidal ideations, self-harm, etc... a couple years ago during that event.

    It's possible that your USAF recruiters could get you seen at a USAF MTF to be evaluated by a USAF psychiatrist. Highly unlikely to happen, but possible.
     
  15. AGRESSOR316

    AGRESSOR316 New Member

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    Thanks for the feedback GoCubbies. Yes what you've mentioned is my main concern. I was thinking of answering no, but include an explanation in the box for explanations. I do have documentation from a psychiatrist that cleared me to return to my unit without restrictions, which I have submitted. I'm surprised I was disqualified. Like the regulation states, I should be ok to apply for OTS after 36 months from this incident. Regulation states any symptoms or treatment within the last 36 months, or any inpatient treatment in hospital or residential facility. I was in observation state for 72 hours given no treatment, then cleared and released. If I required treatment, I'm sure they would have prescribed medication, and wouldn't have released me. Yes, I plan to visit with an Air Force recruiter soon.
     
  16. USMAROTCFamily

    USMAROTCFamily 5-Year Member

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    I'm sure they consider the 72 hours under observation in the behavioral clinic as being in "inpatient treatment in a hospital or residential facility."

    Your screen name here is one that I probably wouldn't recommend you use, based upon the concerns they had for you in the past.....
     
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  17. Tbpxece

    Tbpxece Member

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    My advice would be to enlist and build a record of sane, rational behavior over the next 4-6 years.

    Much easier to prove a negative (in this case, "I'm not crazy") with years of honorable and uneventful service that the AF can verify easily than to keep trying from the outside.

    You have to wait 3 years anyways. Might as well spend that time making rank, making money, and building your reputation. Apply for OTS after you get your masters' degree (which the AF will pay for while you are enlisted ). Much easier to get an OTS seat as prior-enlisted than a civilian.

    Same end result, plus you pick up O-1E if you go more than 4 years. That bump in pay is nothing to laugh at. As a brand new O-1E with 4 years, you'll be making almost as much as an O-2 (and about $1k/month more than your fellow non O-1E's).
     
  18. Impulsive

    Impulsive Member

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    Not sure about Texas, but in Florida if you are involuntarily admitted into a Psychiatric facility, you can forget about the Military and likely any future Security Clearance you may need for a job. Bad thing, but I have to agree being retired law enforcement, there is something missing here no Judge in their right mind would issue a Search Warrant and Baker Act (involuntary in patient review) for a post taken in a home posing with some guns....not probable cause. Someone else must have said something about your behavior or an argument because living with your parents there would have no reason to do what you say happened. They only way law Enforcement can ask a Judge to sign off is if they have Probable Cause....not suspicion. Probable Cause is a concrete production of evidence indicating the likelihood of a crime.
     
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  19. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe 5-Year Member

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    Is it just me, or does this not seem to pass the sniff test.