Son met with a recruiter and was disheartening... Career choices

BryGuy

Parent of a hopeful Falcon
Joined
May 18, 2021
Messages
3
So my son met with a recruiter to talk about options. It was very enlightening for me as a parent. Can't wait to talk to him regarding his view of the meeting.

One thing that came out very clear is a view that the officers don't DO much. Meaning that they are not involved in the activity. They are over seeing the activity. (Mechanic, Cyber, etc.) While I casually knew this it was really hammered home during the meeting.

What I guess I'm wondering and posting about...
Is this realistic or is it the view point of an enlisted recruiter that maybe doesn't get the nuances? If my son is anxious to get involved in Aerospace or Cyber or whatever. Is he going to lack the satisfaction because he is really just overseeing the "action" without the need to get involved? and lacking the options to train for the "trenches"? I assumed that Officers would be capable of filling the "trench" role but that isn't the feel I got today.

It almost sounded like they were discouraging the officer routes because my son wouldn't get much "training" on the technical aspects of the jobs and just on the management of the jobs. I know there has to be more nuance to it. But I'm having a hard time reconciling...

Can someone maybe give me another view point?
 
Ok, I won't leave it at that. I wish I could tell everything my son does and has done as a Marine combat engineer officer. His experience might be unique to him. I don't know. He does things. He knows stuff. He gets dirty.

Lots of enlisted people either believe or just say it for whatever reason that officers don't do much. That is an ignorant statement.
 
I'm quite certain that some AF folks will weigh in on many activities that AF Officers do. Also, pay officer vs. enlisted is quite different. Sometimes enlisted recruiters are near sighted. Officer is not for everyone though.
 
So my son met with a recruiter to talk about options. It was very enlightening for me as a parent. Can't wait to talk to him regarding his view of the meeting.

One thing that came out very clear is a view that the officers don't DO much. Meaning that they are not involved in the activity. They are over seeing the activity. (Mechanic, Cyber, etc.) While I casually knew this it was really hammered home during the meeting.

What I guess I'm wondering and posting about...
Is this realistic or is it the view point of an enlisted recruiter that maybe doesn't get the nuances? If my son is anxious to get involved in Aerospace or Cyber or whatever. Is he going to lack the satisfaction because he is really just overseeing the "action" without the need to get involved? and lacking the options to train for the "trenches"? I assumed that Officers would be capable of filling the "trench" role but that isn't the feel I got today.

It almost sounded like they were discouraging the officer routes because my son wouldn't get much "training" on the technical aspects of the jobs and just on the management of the jobs. I know there has to be more nuance to it. But I'm having a hard time reconciling...

Can someone maybe give me another view point?
Player haters!!
 
I personally distrust all recruiters. As others have said, they are desperate to fill quotas. I told my DS that if he wants to enlist, get a college degree first. I’m afraid if he puts college off it may get put off forever. But that’s just me, a lot of people go into the service and earn money for college and then go to college later.

That being said, being an officer is not for everyone. There are some folks who prefer turning wrenches, screwdrivers and using soldering iron’s and multimeters and doing hands-on work. It all depends on what your DS wants to do. I’ve heard that in the Coast Guard in particular the enlisted men get to do all the fun stuff. I don’t know about the Air Force or particularly what your son is interested in so I can’t say. My perception is that in the Air Force if you’re not a pilot you might as well be a technical enlisted man. I personally would not choose the Air Force as a service branch if I wanted to be an officer, but didn’t want to fly. But that’s just me.

So, the answer for your DS may not be to enlist in the Air Force, but rather, to seek a commission in a different branch.
 
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My son was on the hill when he took this pic. He didn't push the button. He gave the fire order to a lance corporal. An E-3. He was a captain then. The pay difference between the two is huge.
halo.jpg
 
Ok, I won't leave it at that. I wish I could tell everything my son does and has done as a Marine combat engineer officer. His experience might be unique to him. I don't know. He does things. He knows stuff. He gets dirty.

Lots of enlisted people either believe or just say it for whatever reason that officers don't do much. That is an ignorant statement.
This^^^^ absolutely applies to my Army O-3 DS.
 
I personally distrust all recruiters. As others have said, they are desperate to fill quotas. I told my DS that if he wants to enlist, get a college degree first. I’m afraid if he puts college off it may get put off forever. But that’s just me, a lot of people go into the service and earn money for college and then go to college later.

That being said, being an officer is not for everyone. There are some folks who prefer turning wrenches, screwdrivers and using soldering iron’s and multimeters and doing hands-on work. It all depends on what your DS wants to do. I’ve heard that in the Coast Guard in particular the enlisted men get to do all the fun stuff. I don’t know about the Air Force or particularly what your son is interested in so I can’t say. My perception is that in the Air Force if you’re not a pilot you might as well be a technical enlisted man. I personally would not choose the Air Force as a service branch if I wanted to be an officer, but didn’t want to fly. But that’s just me
Yeah, don't trust them further then you can throw 'em! Great guys, for sure, but they are salesmen and have to meet quotas (i.e. not an enlisted recruiters job to say "Hey, you know what, never mind about enlisting- you should really consider being an officer!... haha
 
Our son is a Cyber officer. Currently, he’s in Guam doing nothing. ;)

I can’t imagine that AF and Army Cyber are that different, and I can tell you that our son’s sleeves have not rolled down since day one of that 11-month BOLC. From what I can tell, he’s gotten about 13 hours of sleep since graduating from the academy in ‘19. Doing nothing, of course.
 
One more. DS was the Detachment Commander of a quad-service unit attached to CENTCOM-Forward. They roamed around the Middle East doing security and threat assessment type of stuff. He met two locals while on a ferry. What was the question again?
camel (2).jpg
 
Keep in mind the goal of an enlisted recruiter is to recruit quality candidates into the enlisted ranks, and they have quotas to meet, with lots of pressure. They will highlight and lowlight aspects of service to bring people in. That is their job.

It is, in reality, a powerful, interdependent team - officers creating strategy and tactics, setting priorities, allocating resources, solving problems, accountable and responsible for their people, their gear, their equipment, their mission accomplishment, as a leader running the big picture. The enlisted leaders who started out as hands-on people and still know their gear/systems/processes inside and out, serve a vital role in advising the officers on technical issues and overseeing the enlisted personnel, as well as subtly and not so subtly training that junior officer to be a respected and capable leader. The enlisted personnel are your hands-on technical experts who start out at low levels of expertise but progress through OJT and training to ever more complex skill levels.

Neither side can get the job done - accomplish the mission - without the other. In a command or unit or organization where there is mutual respect, two-way communications, shared commitment to the mission, appreciation for the skills, talents and responsibilities of the other, a healthy camaraderie, great things can be accomplished when the unit works seamlessly together, everyone knowing and performing their roles. There is absolutely nothing to compare to the pleasure of serving in a unit where the cohesion and respect are there. It starts with the responsibility of the leader to drive a culture of respect, commitment and performance, and model it themselves. That is “doing” something. It’s different from the “doing” that is more hands-on, not better or worse. Just different.

One is not better than the other. Woe betide the officer who considers him or herself better than their enlisted personnel because of more pay or advanced degrees or more responsibility. As junior enlisted grow more senior, they gain an appreciation of the burden of responsibility borne by the officers. Senior enlisted leaders have a foot in both worlds, at the pinnacle of their technical field but also play a broader role in guiding the organization.

There are also many opportunities to move from the enlisted path to officer via various programs. Research Seaman to Admiral STA-21.

Some officer specialties are more hands-on than others. Research is critical at this stage.
 
Wow! I step away for a few hours and I get the outpouring of help I was hoping for. Thank you for the reality check... I was able to ask around at work too, their responses were similar. So I'm going chalk this up to different goals and motivations. My son just got the information on his ALO this weekend after completing the last piece of his candidate package in the portal. I'll verify that he has reached out this evening but I'm trying to let him drive the process... (Damn that is hard!) o_O

This has been and continues to be a great place to learn about this process.
And get occasionally needed mental support!
 
One thing that came out very clear is a view that the officers don't DO much

Sorry I'm late to this thread. Here is one more view point.

My DS is an Army Armor Officer (1LT). This is his "desk" as an Abrams platoon leader. He has to lead his platoon AND command his own tank, PLUS operate the 50 CAL. As an officer, he does quite a lot.

IMG2046733836765218364 (1).jpg
 
Keep in mind the goal of an enlisted recruiter is to recruit quality candidates into the enlisted ranks, and they have quotas to meet, with lots of pressure. They will highlight and lowlight aspects of service to bring people in. That is their job.

It is, in reality, a powerful, interdependent team - officers creating strategy and tactics, setting priorities, allocating resources, solving problems, accountable and responsible for their people, their gear, their equipment, their mission accomplishment, as a leader running the big picture. The enlisted leaders who started out as hands-on people and still know their gear/systems/processes inside and out, serve a vital role in advising the officers on technical issues and overseeing the enlisted personnel, as well as subtly and not so subtly training that junior officer to be a respected and capable leader. The enlisted personnel are your hands-on technical experts who start out at low levels of expertise but progress through OJT and training to ever more complex skill levels.

Neither side can get the job done - accomplish the mission - without the other. In a command or unit or organization where there is mutual respect, two-way communications, shared commitment to the mission, appreciation for the skills, talents and responsibilities of the other, a healthy camaraderie, great things can be accomplished when the unit works seamlessly together, everyone knowing and performing their roles. There is absolutely nothing to compare to the pleasure of serving in a unit where the cohesion and respect are there. It starts with the responsibility of the leader to drive a culture of respect, commitment and performance, and model it themselves. That is “doing” something. It’s different from the “doing” that is more hands-on, not better or worse. Just different.

One is not better than the other. Woe betide the officer who considers him or herself better than their enlisted personnel because of more pay or advanced degrees or more responsibility. As junior enlisted grow more senior, they gain an appreciation of the burden of responsibility borne by the officers. Senior enlisted leaders have a foot in both worlds, at the pinnacle of their technical field but also play a broader role in guiding the organization.

There are also many opportunities to move from the enlisted path to officer via various programs. Research Seaman to Admiral STA-21.

Some officer specialties are more hands-on than others. Research is critical at this stage.
Within the major Naval Officer communities, generally the enlisted guys maintain and do some limited operations of the equipment but the officers use it or make the overall decisions with it.
Example: On my first ship, I was the Ordnance Officer who "owned" the ships gun and missile systems. Some of my guys maintained the ships gun systems and the ammunition. When it came to shooting the guns though, they turned the guns on and put them into "remote" and let the Gun Control Consoles in Combat Information Center actually aim and shoot. I was the guy running the Gun Control Consoles and I was the one who decided what to shoot at.
.
When it came to actually DRIVING the ship, doing manuevers, refueling at sea, etc. The Enlisted guys are physically on the wheel but it was the officers who directed where to steer, when to change speeds, etc.
Submarine Officers are doing the same kinds of things.
Aviators are the ones actually flying the planes and Helos. Capt MJ's husband would have hundreds of guys in his squadrons working on the planes but it was the Officers who actually flew and fought them.
 
Simple solution: go infantry! 😁

Recruiters have quotas - can’t blame them for trying but you have to assume they want to sway your opinion.

"If the only tool you have is a hammer, you will start treating all your problems like a nail.”
 
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