Sports, and your academy application

Frenzy, said I have never heard of an SA, (in recent memory, so I am not going back to the Class the Stars Fell On), discriminating against an applicant who has an OSS (Outside School Sport). Of course, such athletes are probably more difficult to evaluate, since most kids do school sports (duh). But there are enough athletes out there competing in every sport - kayaking, mountain-climbing, polo... to warrant the look these candidates deserve, and get. I do believe, shocking I know, that those folks in admissions in USMA, USNA, USAFA, USCGA, and USMMA are truly smart enough to realize that the national champion in TKD meets every qualification they could ever have for an athlete, except - um, - Champ did not compete for James Woods Senior High.
 
I don't think you could score 650 on the CFA with the lowest possible run time, but that is just the opinion of a former army officer. Are you sure your run time was passing?
 
frenzymando said:
. I am a captain of a basketball team but it is not my high school's basketball team
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Yeah, but the question they will ask is: Is this a league team. pay your money to play weekly, or is it like fencer, and my DS where you competed on the state and national level? Is it a traveling team where you had to compete to be on the team?

Great, you paid and they decided you were the captain. Basically intramurals. Did your team travel within the state of Alabama to compete? Did you compete on the state level?
~ That is the point you are missing regarding sports.
~~ There are many posters here that their kids do not play HS soccer. The reason why is they are on a traveling team. This is not pay 100 bucks and play. This is they play at a higher level. This is serious for them. It is not the Y team.

The idea that the SAs can't read between the lines between league team Captain and traveling team Captain is basically mind boggling to me.

frenzymando said:
Also, it's probably possible to score a 650 on the CFA even with the slowest possible passing mile if one gets a max score on every other section of the CFA.
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Not disagreeing with you at all on this point. However, I will again remind you and every poster USAFA never ever publishes the mins.

If you are diligent and curious of course you can find the min. However, if you don't understand the CFA/PFA you will not realize failing even one portion = total failure.

Bringing it back on topic of how sports can help candidates. Submit your CFA and it is done for USAFA. Only USAFA can reopen the CFA. If you have athletics in your background/resume compared to only non-athletics ECs, they may decide to reopen the CFA portal.

I think overall, I can remember maybe 1 or 2 USAFA candidate posters here that was given that chance. Most posters will say if given the chance don't waste it because it is that rare.

I get it, you all want hope! However, if you are applying to all SAs, please remember they don't talk. USNA may have a higher SAT, lower cgpa and CFA than USAFA. USAFA may have a higher SAT and lower CFA than USMA. USMA may have a higher class rank and CFA than both USNA and USAFA.
~ No flaming...I know USCGA and USMMA are SAs.

I will reiterate what CC aka Mike always says....SAs are insanely competitive.
I am just saying for the majority of candidates....if you can't get admitted to Notre Dame, than strengthen your resume! JMPO
 
logremf said:
I don't think you could score 650 on the CFA with the lowest possible run time, but that is just the opinion of a former army officer. Are you sure your run time was passing?
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http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/index.php?threads/i-think-i-failed-my-cfa.10072/

In post number 9 on this thread someone says they passed for USMA with an 8:03 mile. I ran mine a couple seconds faster than that, so unless the poster was lying or the standards have changed, my mile is passing. I took the CFA earlier for USNA and they passed me with an 8:11 mile.

The CFA has 6 sections and it is out of 800 so each section is worth 1/6th of 800 which is 133(assuming each section is weighted equally). 133 times 5 is already more than 650.
 
133 x 5 = 665

I recall not one instance where the kids were told points. Just percentages.
 
USAFA is YOU PASS OR YOU FAIL.

What is the fail, Mike, for a male on a mile run?
 
Misread your post Frenzy, so deleted mine.

I'm baked, cooked, and done.

Candidates should strive to attain the best CFA possible; never be satisfied.
 
I can't post the failing line. I can say the best is 5:20. Anything faster won't gain any more points. The average is 6:36. I have seen passing runs in the 7's.

As for the meat of this discussion. Do not get hung up about which sport is worth more points. Or if the academy weighs higher on certain sports than others. I will say again, and this will be the last time in this thread that I say it:

"Do the best, with what you have to work with."

If you play soccer, and your high school has a varsity soccer team, and you instead are playing a city league soccer team, then you are NOT doing the best with what you have to work with. Now, if you tried out and got selected for a Sting-League and you did that over high school varsity, that is more. If the sport you are really into is something that your school doesn't offer, then that's fine too. Just make sure that your alo, moc, and application know this.

If you play only a summer league sport, even though your school offers others, but you can't do them because you have to help raise your younger brother or sister or you must work after school to support your family, then you're doing the best you can with what you have. Make sure your alo, moc, and application know this. If you aren't doing a school varsity sport, because you choose to do other things and only play a city league sport in the summer or on weekends, then you're probably not doing the best you can with what you have.

Remember, your competition for an appointment is finding ways to do all this. They are also maintaining a gpa in the top 10% of their class, as well as having a full load of other activities. I can't tell you how many candidates I've interviewed that spend all their time on just academics and one other activity. It's great that they have a strong passion for band, scouts, church, or whatever it is, but that's not going to help your application. The academy is looking for the well rounded applicant that is doing 2-3 varsity sports a year, is involved in 1-2 clubs, who's got hundreds of hours of volunteer time, who was selected for boys/girls state, who are taking the most difficult and challenging classes available, who have leadership experience in all of the above activities, and can still maintain stellar gpa' and act/sat scores. Along with a balanced family and social life. And guess what? There are more than enough applicants with this type of resume.

Are there exceptions? Yes, I've mentioned numerous examples. If you are one of these exceptions, then fine. But make sure your alo, moc, and your application knows this and you can demonstrate that you did the very best with what you had to work with. This is the way it is. Best of luck.
 
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FWIW: DS did not participate in ANY high school sports. In the winter of his Junior year he started running in a community-based 5K circuit. Average times, but they were documented. He was appointed to both USNA and USAFA. You've heard time and again: the Academies are about the WHOLE student. It's true.
 
waiting game said:
FWIW: DS did not participate in ANY high school sports. In the winter of his Junior year he started running in a community-based 5K circuit. Average times, but they were documented. He was appointed to both USNA and USAFA. You've heard time and again: the Academies are about the WHOLE student. It's true.
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Thanks for that. I worry about my son's chances. He's home schooled which would not be a problem since so many private schools allow homeschoolers on their sports teams. Our problem is location. We're an hour out from private schools, and the drive prevents us. I'm hoping his extremely active participation in our Civil Air Patrol unit will help. (Cadet Commander, CyberPatriot team leader, State level appointments on Advisory Councils, etc. etc.) He started because of his love of airplanes, but as his involvement has increased, he has fallen in love with the leadership aspects. I'd love to see him reach his goal.
 
momofhopefulpilot said:
Thanks for that. I worry about my son's chances. He's home schooled which would not be a problem since so many private schools allow homeschoolers on their sports teams. Our problem is location. We're an hour out from private schools, and the drive prevents us. I'm hoping his extremely active participation in our Civil Air Patrol unit will help. (Cadet Commander, CyberPatriot team leader, State level appointments on Advisory Councils, etc. etc.) He started because of his love of airplanes, but as his involvement has increased, he has fallen in love with the leadership aspects. I'd love to see him reach his goal.
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Same here on most things, including homeschool and CAP. Some states require public schools to accept homeschoolers on their teams. Check into it. Also, send me a PM when you get more posts :)
 
Although I can quibble with some of the scoring, I very much prefer the objective scoring system or rubric that WP has. It removes the subjectiveness of the evaluation as to which candidate has the better resume in this regard. I am probably a bit biased though, as it resulted in a good score for my son, as almost all of his sports were in school, and he earned 8 letters and 2 captaincies between soccer, baseball, and for the first time this year swim.

There are a number of ways to learn and show leadership; athletics is only one way; and in my mind that isn't the best way. Kids become captains of sports teams too often, not because they manifest leadership among their teammates, but rather because they are "star" players. I'll take the kid who is less talented, but works his/her tail off, hustles, and treats every teammate like that kid is a star, over someone who happens to be the best player. Sometimes the best player is the best leader, but frankly there isn't really a strong correlation between the two.

I think the academies are all looking to sports, and particularly team sports, as a barometer because kids who play and are successful at most sports are athletic, and fitness is relevant to success at academies, and a requirement in the service, and because athletics teaches teamwork, which is so important in the military. If a candidate has served as a captain in a competitive team sport, he/she has exercised some level of responsibility, and at least theoretically has been entrusted by a coach to serve in that capacity because the coach thought highly enough of that kid.

I suspect that the academies may not look as favorable on non-school athletics because they are tougher to identify in terms of competitiveness, and cant be verified by a school counselor. Some non-school athletic participation may mean the kid is competing for a spot on the Olympic gymnastics or figure skating team, whereas others may be a "sign up and play" type thing. A lot fall into the latter category. Varsity sports are more easily understood; although they too vary tremendously. In Michigan we have basically four classes of high schools, A through D (and 8 classes in football). If you are at a class D school you likely wont even need to "make the team", as there aren't enough kids to have cuts. At a large A school though, making the basketball, soccer, or baseball team is a big deal. My kid is at a B school, and was able to play several sports. If he were at a class A school with a good swim team he would not have made the swim team, as he is basically learning that on the fly.

I like having a clear scoring system though, and I know WP uses it since we spoke at length with two WP RC's about the system. It makes some things easier for the committee, and certainly for the RC's. I suspect that the other academies do something similar, but the rubric probably differs.
 
I just don't know where to ask this so ill try here, do they ever send out email to check your portal on the weekend? Or just Monday through Friday? USAFA
 
katwswim said:
I just don't know where to ask this so ill try here, do they ever send out email to check your portal on the weekend? Or just Monday through Friday? USAFA
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If your question is whether changes on the portal can occur over the weekend, the answer is yes they do. For example, by sons nomination popped up on a Sunday morning. But, they don't necessarily send you an email when chances occurred. In fact I don't think they usually do.
 
Yes, thank you that's what I wanted to know. So I guess we'll keep checking portal over the weekend. :-)
 
logremf said:
I don't think you could score 650 on the CFA with the lowest possible run time, but that is just the opinion of a former army officer. Are you sure your run time was passing?
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Does AFA have a point system for the CFA? If so where do you find it?
 
logremf said:
I don't think you could score 650 on the CFA with the lowest possible run time, but that is just the opinion of a former army officer. Are you sure your run time was passing?
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USAFA CFA
Mens on the left womens on the right
Exercise Max. Average Max. Average
Men Women
Basketball Throw 102′ 69′ 66′ 41′
Pull-Ups 18 12 7 3
Flexed Arm Hang (women) 63 sec 24 sec
Shuttle Run 7.8 sec 8.9 sec 8.6 sec 9.7 sec
Modified Sit-Ups (crunches) 95 81 95 78
Push-Ups 75 61 50 41
One Mile Run 5:20 6:36 6:00 7:35
 
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katwswim said:
Does AFA have a point system for the CFA? If so where do you find it?
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Yes, they have a point system.

No, you can't find it. They won't let you have it.

FYI: This is a STICKY. Meaning, it's for a specific topic and stays at the top.
The topic is about SPORTS: and how it affects your application. A STICKY is USELESS if people are going to use it to drift OFF TOPIC. This isn't a thread for CFA questions. Please ask those questions in a REGULAR thread. Sometimes a question slips in, and we try to help by answering it; but lets keep this sticky about Sports and how it affects your application.

Same with other topics, such as checking your portal. If you can't find an existing thread with the topic you are concerned about..... Then START A NEW THREAD. Don't post in Stickies unless it's specifically about that topic.

Thanks..... Mike.
 
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