Sports should not define Academies

[unkown1961]

Per the new policy (from the Colorado Springs Gazette and Wash Post): "a secured contract or binding commitment with a professional sports team is required." So, I don't think the Academies would consider this for an actor, Nobel prize winner (I don't know the chances of this for a college student though), musician etc. It'd be interesting to hear otherwise from someone actually in the know.
Along the lines of football, the Air Force has had a few games with a lot of empty seats. It doesn't help when they have late starts due to TV contracts. WE had one game start at 8:30 - in November. That's late and it's cold! Do West point and USNA have late starts? How is their attendance?

 

[kappapa]

Again, if a midshipmen is able to contribute in ways other then being on a ship or flying a plane (or whatever the service line) that is more valuable TO the Navy then they allow that. That is the reason that a handful of mids go off to medical school so that they can put in 12 years afterwards as a doctor.

As to your statement that "a candidate who is marginally qualified is taking the place of better rounded candidate," do you have any stats to support that the Navy as a whole has been disadvantaged by these midshipmen going into service in place of someone who is a well rounded non-athlete? We all have anecdotal stories about how someone who we thought was super qualified but did not get in. But do you have overall stats? I do not, but I'm sure that the SAs and the DoD do and I would like to think that if the quality of the officers are being degraded by the recruited athletes then something would have been done.

I said that your position that the "1%" that get out of any service contributes more than the 99% that do is madness, and it is. I'm sure that if the SAs were to release the full stats behind every cadet/midshipman that it would solve alot of speculation on both sides of the argument here. "Just because she is a recruited athlete, you somehow seem to think that she is less qualified to become naval officer than you." Never stated anything of the sorts, I just want a full fledged meritocracy when it comes to admissions, where no one is given a leg up because of athletic merits when in the long run that doesn't serve the greater good of the military whatsoever.
"If you don't understand this concept, maybe you're better off not going to the USNA." Ha, the concept that individuals can bail on their commitment to their nation to serve? Using your logic, alot of people I know at USNA would not be there at all. No exceptions should be made based on individual "talents". Mids get a full ride from the taxpayer, and they demand a pay out at the end of the road. If you honestly think that taxpayers would willingly shill out $400,000 per mid/cadet and be perfectly content with, "Well Suzy Q or John T is so good at X, they want to pursue their personal ambitions for X, so they should be waved of all commitment to serve", you are dead wrong. The only push back I have received from the idea of removing this policy is from this forum.

 

[Jcleppe]

If you want to claim that reservists are just as essential in military readiness and daily functions, that's your axe to grind. Reservists deserve the same amount of respect, but that is not what we are talking about. We are talking about day to day use that the taxpayer/citizen benefits from, and that is obviously not equal to active duty officers.

With comments like this, you don't deserve to wear the uniform in any branch of the service. Yep, my opinion, no I don't need a lecture from an 18 year old with a Thesaurus.

 

[kappapa]

Per the new policy (from the Colorado Springs Gazette and Wash Post): "a secured contract or binding commitment with a professional sports team is required." So, I don't think the Academies would consider this for an actor, Nobel prize winner (I don't know the chances of this for a college student though), musician etc. It'd be interesting to hear otherwise from someone actually in the know.
Along the lines of football, the Air Force has had a few games with a lot of empty seats. It doesn't help when they have late starts due to TV contracts. WE had one game start at 8:30 - in November. That's late and it's cold! Do West point and USNA have late starts? How is their attendance?

My 2 cents. Sports is entertainment. Should the SAs excuse a gifted drama student from service because he might be the next Hollywood star? Should they excuse a brilliant engineer because she has actionable ideas more suited to the civilian world? Then why make an exception for sports? Every candidate has sports experience; I think over 95% have a varsity letter. Love football? Try out when you get there. For the SAs, in particular, 'recruiting' for sports is nonsensical. They don't need alumni donations, they don't need the publicity (the Army-Navy football game is broadcast every year regardless of the quality of the teams), and a candidate who is marginally qualified but good at a marquee sport is taking the place of a better rounded candidate.

I completely agree. Who are we to say one's talents are lesser than another's? We should give waivers to everyone who has a 'promising' future in whatever they are good at amirite?? //sarcasm. But I like how we could bring subjectivity to this topic, and show how utterly maddening it is.

 

[kappapa]

With comments like this, you don't deserve to wear the uniform in any branch of the service. Yep, my opinion, no I don't need a lecture from an 18 year old with a Thesaurus.

I am just going off my own wit/vocabulary that I have acquired from debating my entire life, but thanks for the compliment. You are way too emotionally hyperbolic about this topic, take a step back a realize this from a strategic and economic perspective, not your feels.

 

[CA_USNA_Dad]

So you are basically saying that you are more qualified to determine what should and should not be included in meritocracy than the superintendent of USNA.

Also, it's less than 1%. Way less. More like one in a decade. And I never said that they should not serve. I said if there is some way that these individuals can do more for the Navy in a different capacity, I'm ok with that.

According to your position of protecting the taxpayer, I suppose that if someone enters USNA but decided to leave after one year, he needs to reimburse the USNA 100k because that's how much it cost the taxpayers.

 

[DesertCaliMom]

3 in the past 3 years

 

[kappapa]

So you are basically saying that you are more qualified to determine what should and should not be included in meritocracy than the superintendent of USNA.

Also, it's less than 1%. Way less. More like one in a decade. And I never said that they should not serve. I said if there is some way that these individuals can do more for the Navy in a different capacity, I'm ok with that.

According to your position of protecting the taxpayer, I suppose that if someone enters USNA but decided to leave after one year, he needs to reimburse the USNA 100k because that's how much it cost the taxpayers.

The Academies already determined the "Whole Person Concept", so I am arguing by what they say they want. The same question goes to you, do you think you are the moral arbiter of this determination? The admissions committee decides who they think they should let in, all I am arguing for is that coaches/other faculty should have no extra pull on their decision making. "some way that these individuals can do more for the Navy in a different capacity, I'm ok with that." Well I'm not but let's just agree to disagree. To answer your question, yes. If someone leaves after a year, they need to pay that money back... just like they would at every other school. There are consequences for every decision anyone makes.

 

[CA_USNA_Dad]

I didn't claim that I should be the moral arbiter. I'm assuming that the USNA superintendent is way more qualified than I am.

Talking with various parents who have a mid at USNA, I got the impression that teamwork was more important than almost any other factor at the academy With ~15% of the class being recruited athletes you will surely have some in you company (if you get appointed and accept). With your supercilious attitude and "incontrovertible" knowledge that these members are so inferior to you, how will you make a good teammate to these "so less qualified" midshipmen?

 

[usna1985]

Under the law, there is no requirement to pay back the government if a SA student leaves for any reason prior to signing the "2 for 7" contract. After that, if they leave other than for certain reasons (i.e., medical) they need to reimburse the government for the costs of their time to date.

USNA does have some weird start times for football games based on TV rights. The stadium, which now seats nearly 40,000, is usually mostly sold out. However, there are often a lot of empty seats despite paid attendance. My personal opinion is that people buy tickets in order to get into the stadium to go to their reunion tailgaters with little intention of attending ANY of the game, let alone all of it. Also, if you exit the stadium for any reason prior to the beginning of the third quarter, you can't get back in. So, during our reunion, we left to go to our tailgate after the first quarter and then couldn't get back in so our seats remained empty. It's a complicated thing but those TV $$ fund so much that it's hard to say no to what the networks want.

Finally, there are definitely a small number of admitted candidates whose #1 qualification is being really good at a particular sport and, were they not good at that sport, there is no way they would be admitted. We can all debate whether that's good or bad, fair or unfair, but it absolutely happens.

 

[kappapa]

I didn't claim that I should be the moral arbiter. I'm assuming that the USNA superintendent is way more qualified than I am.

Talking with various parents who have a mid at USNA, I got the impression that teamwork was more important than almost any other factor at the academy With ~15% of the class being recruited athletes you will surely have some in you company (if you get appointed and accept). With your supercilious attitude and "incontrovertible" knowledge that these members are so inferior to you, how will you make a good teammate to these "so less qualified" midshipmen?

I would love to post my resume so you and others could get some actual perspective about what I do/who I am. It's all about being a leader and showing others how/what to do in a motivating and apt manner. I have already stated this, but heck I'll do it again. I do not look down upon any of my fellow applicants/(hopefully) future fellow mids. I'm not perfect by any metric, but I find it funny how everyone on here wants to paint me like some self-absorbed ideologue just for having well-versed opinions that I happen to defend. I'm sure we would get along great and have very mutual relationships.

 

[Maplerock]

I didn't claim that I should be the moral arbiter. I'm assuming that the USNA superintendent is way more qualified than I am.

Talking with various parents who have a mid at USNA, I got the impression that teamwork was more important than almost any other factor at the academy With ~15% of the class being recruited athletes you will surely have some in you company (if you get appointed and accept). With your supercilious attitude and "incontrovertible" knowledge that these members are so inferior to you, how will you make a good teammate to these "so less qualified" midshipmen?

I would love to post my resume so you and others could get some actual perspective about what I do/who I am. It's all about being a leader and showing others how/what to do in a motivating and apt manner. I have already stated this, but heck I'll do it again. I do not look down upon any of my fellow applicants/(hopefully) future fellow mids. I'm not perfect by any metric, but I find it funny how everyone on here wants to paint me like some self-absorbed ideologue just for having well-versed opinions that I happen to defend. I'm sure we would get along great and have very mutual relationships.

If you feel you're right, whatever the issue, stick to your guns.

Now we "older" folks usually know what we're talking about but just because you're in the minority on an issue doesn't mean you're wrong.

I think you've represented yourself well. Good luck to ya!

 

[unkown1961]

If you feel you're right, whatever the issue, stick to your guns.
Now we "older" folks usually know what we're talking about but just because you're in the minority on an issue doesn't mean you're wrong.
I think you've represented yourself well. Good luck to ya!

I think he's a done a good job as well. But I happen to be against these PR measures the military usually does - be it allowing athletes out of a commitment to play pro ball because it generates good PR or the Thunderbirds paying celebrities to take a ride with them (maybe they've changed that since we were stationed at Nellis AFB).

 

[Jcleppe]

I would love to post my resume so you and others could get some actual perspective about what I do/who I am.

Please do.

 

[kappapa]

Please do.

Are you done being petty? Rise above, man.

 

[Jcleppe]

Thought so.

 

[NavyHoops]

This isn't being petty to ask to not be PM'd. Please stop the non-sense. Jcleppe has been on this board for years and has never been petty. Civil debate is fine. Let's keep it there.