Stand and Fight …. No one gets out of this World alive

[Small Team Bacsi]

Weren't US troops invited in to South Vietnam by the South Vietnamese government? Seems a little different than the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

My reading of history. And this has nothing to do with the Ukraine.

After our advisor only phase of the war. When we landed the Marines March 65 is was because we the US saw that landing as important in an attempt to stop communism in Asia..

And the US thought the SVN govt was unable to do so as far as the VC And SVN. The NVA were not engaged then. Not in any numbers.

The SVN govt was not begging for major US intervention or over 500,000 US troops though . That was all our idea.

The main point though was not VN, it is that those protecting their own home land , often without uniforms or tanks, from outside forces , have much in common. So I guess this is like the Ukraine.

Watch the Battle of Algiers and then tell me who you end up cheering for ? The Army, the police, the local terriorists?

Personally I have much respect for the Viet Cong. As I do the SVN forces. The NVA that goes way beyond respect.

I saw one VC engage an entire company of reconnaissance marines who were on a sweep and they did so on purpose. They were hidden in deep brush on the side of a hill but not far away

And after the Gun ships had done their work on that VC and after many Marines had returned fire , and as those Marines and Docs were taken off the rivers edge into the Amtrak s that VC was still shooting.

One really brave or totally nuts person?

That is actually someone protecting their own home country from outside armies.

 

[Small Team Bacsi]

Weren't US troops invited in to South Vietnam by the South Vietnamese government? Seems a little different than the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

And do you know what my all time wacky memory of that war was?

The almost 7 days we were restricted to base as we got ready to go into da nang and fight South Vietnamese Army units.

spring maybe April 1966.

Look up the story of General Walt the senior Marine in Vietnam standing on a bridge outside of danang as SVN Army units tried to kill him.

Thank goodness for SEAL or RECON divers . Their work unseen below the water saved the Generals life.

That was a war that should have remained among the locals. Lots of lives would have been saved.

 

[NJROTC-CC]

That was a war that should have remained among the locals. Lots of lives would have been saved.

Yeah, the Domino Theory doesn’t look so good now with 20-20 hindsight does it?

Did it even make sense for us to embargo oil to Japan in protest of Japan’s war in China thus forcing Japan to attack Pearl Harbor? Whose interests were we protecting? 20-20 hindsight is a great thing.

 

[cb7893]

My reading of history. And this has nothing to do with the Ukraine.

I knew exactly what you meant.

Watch the Battle of Algiers and then tell me who you end up cheering for ?

If the Ukraine conflict develops into a full blown partisan war, there is a long list of historical antecedents.

 

[CatDog99]

Yeah, the Domino Theory doesn’t look so good now with 20-20 hindsight does it?

Did it even make sense for us to embargo oil to Japan in protest of Japan’s war in China thus forcing Japan to attack Pearl Harbor? Whose interests were we protecting? 20-20 hindsight is a great thing.

The Manchurians would disagree.

 

[Small Team Bacsi]

Yeah, the Domino Theory doesn’t look so good now with 20-20 hindsight does it?

Did it even make sense for us to embargo oil to Japan in protest of Japan’s war in China thus forcing Japan to attack Pearl Harbor? Whose interests were we protecting? 20-20 hindsight is a great thing.

Well at least that was real stuff.

In VN we at least in public based our landing of the 3Rd Marine Division initially on an attack on US Navy ships that never happened.

Not based on a lie as such but a mistake, but lie or mistake , is not the issue , that non attack was an opening we took advantage of. And that war would be won and over in no time.

Those of us on a troop transport ship leaving San Diego , as opposed to our classmates who flew on a plane, in June 65 , we thought the war might be winding down before we could deploy.

Oh we were confident and excited and could not wait..

Hubris as the Russians are finding out.

 

[NJROTC-CC]

The Manchurians would disagree.

Asia dominated by the Japanese Imperial Empire would have been no worse for the USA than Asia being dominated by the Chinese Communists. I don’t see where the United States had any legitimate interest in Asia in the 1930’s. By the time Pearl Harbor was attacked we were already planning to grant the Philippines independence. So my belief is that we did not really have any legitimate National interest in fighting the Japanese. Should’ve left it to the British and Dutch to defend their colonies.

 

[cb7893]

Asia Europe dominated by the Japanese Imperial Empire Third Reich would have been no worse for the USA than Asia Europe being dominated by the Chinese Communists German Nazis

Asia Europe Eastern Europe dominated by the Japanese Imperial Empire Third Reich Russian Federation would have been no worse for the USA than Asia Europe Eastern Europe being dominated by the Chinese Communists German Nazis Russian Fascists

I think I hear the footsteps of Charles Lindberg, Father Coughlin, Pat Buchanan and Tulsi Gabbard.

 

[NJROTC-CC]

I think I hear the footsteps of Charles Lindberg, Father Coughlin, Pat Buchanan and Tulsi Gabbard.

Not at all. I don’t have the same views regarding Europe or the middle east. I just don’t think we achieved jack spit by provoking a war with the Japanese in WWII.

I am on the fence about how far we should go in defending Taiwan. We need to build alliances in the Pacific to stand up to the Chinese. Make them pay economically for agression. Same thing with Russia.

 

[CatDog99]

We need to build alliances in the Pacific to stand up to the Chinese. Make them pay economically for agression.

Didn't you just argue against this economic isolation strategy regarding Imperial Japan?

 

[Day-Tripper]

Well at least that was real stuff.

In VN we at least in public based our landing of the 3Rd Marine Division initially on an attack on US Navy ships that never happened.

Not based on a lie as such but a mistake, but lie or mistake , is not the issue , that non attack was an opening we took advantage of. And that war would be won and over in no time.

Those of us on a troop transport ship leaving San Diego , as opposed to our classmates who flew on a plane, in June 65 , we thought the war might be winding down before we could deploy.

Oh we were confident and excited and could not wait..

Hubris as the Russians are finding out.

The US went into an Asian land war 16,000 miles from our shores. The US was militarily involved in Vietnam for 7 years before withdrawing in a (flawed) negotiated settlement.

The Russians invaded a country they regard as a runaway province on their own borders. Which they had ruled for most of the last 600 years. With plenty of (perceived) support inside Ukraine. Yet they've failed miserably. It took years of war in Vietnam before drug addiction, desertion, fraggings, etc occured in the US army. Russia is facing this within months of launching their war of conquest. Months.

The US left Vietnam with no real long-term negative impact. SEATO was quickly replaced by ASEAN.

Russia's eventual failure in Ukraine will return that country to it's 1991-level of impotence in global affairs. National morale will collapse. Investment has already dissapeared. Won't come back any time soon. Russian influence in the Middle East, Venezuela, North Korea, even China will (or is) start to vanish.

 

[Dr. Strange Love]

.
Anne Applebaum — It’s time to prepare for a Ukrainian Victory

It’s Time to Prepare for a Ukrainian Victory

The liberation of Russian-occupied territory might bring down Vladimir Putin.

www.theatlantic.com

“… When I write that Americans and Europeans need to prepare for a Ukrainian victory, this is what I mean: We must expect that a Ukrainian victory, and certainly a victory in Ukraine’s understanding of the term, also brings about the end of Putin’s regime.

To be clear: This is not a prediction; it’s a warning. Many things about the current Russian political system are strange, and one of the strangest is the total absence of a mechanism for succession. Not only do we have no idea who would or could replace Putin; we have no idea who would or could choose that person. …”
.

 

[raimius]

The Ukrainian counter-attack is a good sign for them, but don't expect a quick end to the war after another week. Putin committed a lot to this, and he doesn't seem like a man to give up easily...nor one that cares particularly much about the troops he sent off to die.

 

[StPaulDad]

The advances were regional, not across the entire front. There's still a lot to be done.

 

[NJROTC-CC]

It will be interesting how the Eurpoean alliance holds up through winter without gas.

 

[cb7893]

The Ukrainian counter-attack is a good sign for them, but don't expect a quick end to the war after another week. Putin committed a lot to this, and he doesn't seem like a man to give up easily...nor one that cares particularly much about the troops he sent off to die.

IMHO, his strategy--if you can call it that--is to cut off energy to Western Europe and hope that the coalition collapses. One would assume that will be the principal topic of his discussions with President Xi this week. (@NJROTC-CC , you posted while I was writing.)

The article does a good job of warning the West to be prepared for Putin's possible demise, without a timeline. All dictatorial regimes appear to be firmly established--until they aren't. The more firmly the "myth" has become ingrained in the country's psyche, the quicker and more spectacular the collapse. The list of historical antecedents is huge.

Discussions among loyal regime supporters, like this on Russian state run television, suggest that finger pointing and recriminations are underway. There isn't a FNC, MSNBC and CNN in Russia. This is all they have. The discussion encourages Ukraine as much as it discourages the Putin's supporters. His ability, or lack thereof, to control the narrative going forward will probably be as important as Ukrainian battlefield successes.

 

[Dr. Strange Love]

IMHO, his strategy--if you can call it that--is to cut off energy to Western Europe and hope that the coalition collapses. One would assume that will be the principal topic of his discussions with President Xi this week. (@NJROTC-CC , you posted while I was writing.)

The article does a good job of warning the West to be prepared for Putin's possible demise, without a timeline. All dictatorial regimes appear to be firmly established--until they aren't. The more firmly the "myth" has become ingrained in the country's psyche, the quicker and more spectacular the collapse. The list of historical antecedents is huge.

Discussions among loyal regime supporters, like this on Russian state run television, suggest that finger pointing and recriminations are underway. There isn't a FNC, MSNBC and CNN in Russia. This is all they have. The discussion encourages Ukraine as much as it discourages the Putin's supporters. His ability, or lack thereof, to control the narrative going forward will probably be as important as Ukrainian battlefield successes.

.
Interesting video … I’d say everything the West is doing to help Ukrainians is working …

LNG/LPG … coal … light/heavy oil … will keep Europeans warm this winter and for many winters to come … as long as it takes to make things right.
.

 

[Dr. Strange Love]

.
FYI … Retired General Ben Hodges recent commentary …

.

 

[BP_0205]

.
Interesting video … I’d say everything the West is doing to help Ukrainians is working …

LNG/LPG … coal … light/heavy oil … will keep Europeans warm this winter and for many winters to come … as long as it takes to make things right.
.

Or not... you have just to search for "EU energy crisis". From Germany to France, Romania to Sweden, almost all European countries are preparing for the worst (and not necessary this winter will be the worst...).
Just a couple quotes:
"The energy shock is now a full-blown political and economic crisis. Already 14% of families in Britain are behind on their utility bills."
"At today’s futures prices, annual spending on electricity and gas by consumers and firms across the European Union could rise to a staggering €1.4trn, up from €200bn in recent years, reckons Morgan Stanley, a bank." (The Economist)
"Germany has garnered most of the attention when it comes to Europe’s energy crisis, given its dependence on Russian gas. But it’s France that will struggle the most to avoid blackouts this winter..." (Bloomberg)
"Last year, the EU imported about 155bn cubic metres of Russian pipeline gas, about 40 per cent of its total supply. That has now dropped to 9 per cent" (Financial Times)
"Switzerland Federal Department of Finance spokesman Markus Sporndli told Blick the country could issue fines for people who heat their homes higher than 19C. "

So it's not so simple, it's not just about how the people will get warm during the winter. There are companies who (will) need to shut down because of the prices, people who will lose their job and all income because of this, political parties who won't be re-elected, because of the crisis, which may causes more insecurities...

These are certainly very interesting times.

 

[THParent]

We complain about $0.11/kWh for electricity in the U.S. when Europeans already pay $0.35/kWh and it's going up.

In Louisiana, electricity is only 7-1/2 cents per kWh, while it's more like 27 cents per kWh in Hawaii.
Can you imagine? Let's say your electric bill is $100/month in Shreveport. That's more like $360/month in Honolulu.

Of course, in Shreveport the average home price is $188,000 while that same house in Honolulu is $888,000. I can only imagine what the property taxes are like. Hoo boy!