Start enlistment process, or wait for USNA?

EOD/SEALmom I don't think anyone is trying to berate you. For some the disciplined lifestyle of a SA is an appeal and there is nothing wrong with that. For others that environment is miserable. If that is the environment she thinks she would thrive in best, I would highly recommend looking at the SMCs as an option also. She may or may not choose to apply there, but I think its worth a look as they have very similar lifestyles as a SA. These schools can get pricey, especially as an OOS of student. Each of the SMCs are unique in their own ways and some appeal more to others. There are tons of threads in the SMC forum discussing the differences and similarities of these schools.

As someone who has served in the fleet... The fleet has its mix of folks just like anywhere in America. Capt MJ nailed it with some of the stuff that does happen daily in the fleet. And yes Mids do plenty of stupid things... they just take longer to catch sometimes and have amazing explanations. I have 6 females friends who have completed dive school and moved on to being dive and EOD officers. If you have questions please let me know, I can certainly find answers from them.
 
There are six SMC's
VMI, The Citadel, Virginia Tech, Texas A & M, University of North Georgia and Norwich.
They all charge tuition but are public colleges. They are only AROTC programs that assure active duty army for AROTC graduates, so long as approved by the PMS.

Unlike Service Academies, there is no obligation to join the military upon graduation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senior_Military_College

Unless, of course, you paid your way with a ROTC scholarship.
 
I am going to say that I think your DD needs to do a lot more investigation.

I thought payits words were a tad harsh, but I also think your DD is being shortsighted regarding how it works from the enlisted side jumping over to the officer side if they are active duty.

If she has not spent a second to investigate SMCs than I think she is on the wrong path.

I admire her desire to serve, but financially if she is a viable candidate for an SA, the SMCs will probably offer merit too.

Do you know that if she is an E3 at 22 with 4 yrs in, they make less than 24K a year? However, that 22 that went ROTC scholarship and got merit from the college will enter at the same age (no or little college debt) with a starting salary of 40K .
~ The enlisted member will be juggling full time work and college. Doubtful they will earn their undergrad in 4 years like a ROTC student. Thus, going enlisted straight out of the gate may hurt her in the long term.

Plus, I do agree with payitforward, she is being very naive to think that the 18-22 yr olds AD aren't being just as immature as the college kids. In fact, I believe that the ROTC kids maybe even more mature because they live with the fact that 1 false step and they can lose everything. Getting drunk on campus underage is a huge No No. It typically ends in disenrollment from ROTC and depending on the school they can decide to politely ask the student to leave. I am not talking about an SMC, I am talking about a traditional college.

Additionally, if she really wants that appointment, I would say it is much harder and longer to go the enlisted route. Compare and contrast the 2 paths. The kid that goes off to college plan B due to receiving the thin envelope will:
1. Need no approval from anyone to reapply the following year.
~ Enlisted member will need their Commanders approval to apply. Hard to get if they are only in basic training at this time next year.
~~ They are now at least 1 year behind the kid that went ROTC.
2. Academically the ROTC student will most likely taking harder courses, IE on par with the academics of an SA for that year.
~ Enlisted member that 1st year they are learning their job. Taking college level Physics is just not on the top of their list.
~~ Assume that both the ROTC kid and the enlisted member both get an appointment 2 years later. The enlisted member brings a lot to the table from the service side, but usually not as much from the academic side. This is why it is not uncommon for enlisted members to be offered NAPS. They want them to get back into that academic mode/level after a few years out of HS. Whereas, the ROTC kid will typically get the direct admit because they have been following the rigor of USNA at college. In other words, even if they both get the big fate envelope in 2017. The ROTC kid is more likely to go directly to USNA and commission in 2022. The service member may do both NAPS and USNA, commissioning in 2023.
3. Going ROTC on scholarship or not gives them an option that is not offered to enlisted members.
~ ROTC members on scholarship can walk up to the 1st day of their sophomore year with no penalty if they decide this is not a fit for me. Enlisted members do not have that option. They are on the hook for 4 year, no if and or buts.
~~ Trust me, you can say all day long she knows this is for her, but she really doesn't. It is emotionally hard for many 18 yr old kids that want to fly the nest as soon as they can, and then the holidays roll around, and reality sets in. There is no guarantee that they will grant her leave for both Thanksgiving and Christmas. More importantly even if they do, chances of her being able to afford to come home from wherever they are assigned will be an issue too. See above regarding pay. My DS is in Texas. Flying home to Dulles VA from Dallas is several hundred each time during non-holiday times. My guess is that flying from Norfolk to let's say Billings would not be cheap, nor easy from a traveling aspect.
4. Service Members do have another nomination source, but so does the ROTC student. (ROTC students can get a ROTC nomination) on top of their MoCs noms.. Both are no guarantee of winning an appointment
~ I know of several MoCs that like 2nd time applicants and will do principal for those applicants. I know when Eric Cantor was in office that he did this. In this case that ROTC student as a freshmen in college (18/19) will have an almost 100% guarantee that they will now commission in 2021. Again, next yr. the enlisted member will probably miss out applying next year due to the process for enlisted. Additionally, if the MoC does principal, and that year they have 2 reapplicants, their decision could come down to looking at academics as the final decision.

It is just my personal opinion that it is a much harder path to become an officer via the enlisted route than going ROTC. I admire her desire to serve, but I think she is truly being short sighted from a long term aspect. Thus, in a way payitforward is right regarding immaturity. It is not an insult in any means. It is a fact that most 17/18 yr olds in HS are not thinking about life after graduation. They are not thinking that if they go enlisted that instead of being 27 when they can dive, they will be closer to 30. Saying 30 to a 17 year old is a little mind blowing to them regarding how long they will be in it before they can bolt, compared to them thinking they are only committed until they are 22 if they go enlisted, and decide it is not for them.

Sorry for the novella, but I think you need to sit back, and really think about every point that you will be facing in the near future with aspects that you may not have even contemplated yet.
 
Update: DD read this thread and then investigated SMCs. Neither of us had heard about them before discovering this forum. She has already completed applications to both VMI and Citadel, and is scrambling to complete the NROTC scholarship application. She loves VMI *almost* as much as USNA, and enlistment had now dropped to plan C. Thanks to everyone for mentioning the SMCs, it really does seem like a good fit for her, far more than the traditional civilian colleges.
 
Update: DD read this thread and then investigated SMCs. Neither of us had heard about them before discovering this forum. She has already completed applications to both VMI and Citadel, and is scrambling to complete the NROTC scholarship application. She loves VMI *almost* as much as USNA, and enlistment had now dropped to plan C. Thanks to everyone for mentioning the SMCs, it really does seem like a good fit for her, far more than the traditional civilian colleges.

So glad she has found more options. The SMC's are a wonderful opportunity. But, I'm a bit biased with my DS being at Rat at VMI. I feel like he has more of an opportunity to shine at VMI vs the SA, for example if he had gone to West Point ( he did not receive an appointment but did apply, 3q and 2 nominations) he would be in a class of 1200, at VMI he Matriculated with a class of 495.

She should visit all and see what feels right
 
We all wish her the best, and hope you will let us know how her journey goes.
 
So glad she has found more options. The SMC's are a wonderful opportunity. But, I'm a bit biased with my DS being at Rat at VMI. I feel like he has more of an opportunity to shine at VMI vs the SA, for example if he had gone to West Point ( he did not receive an appointment but did apply, 3q and 2 nominations) he would be in a class of 1200, at VMI he Matriculated with a class of 495.

She should visit all and see what feels right


VMI is her absolute favorite! (After USNA, of course!). Citadel not so much; while it does offer a lot of what she's looking for, I guess she just isn't feeling it, although I'm not sure why. We are trying to plan visits to both.
 
VMI is her absolute favorite! (After USNA, of course!). Citadel not so much; while it does offer a lot of what she's looking for, I guess she just isn't feeling it, although I'm not sure why. We are trying to plan visits to both.

Well, feel free to message me if you have questions. Keep in mind that I am only a Rat mom, so I only know so much . I will say that I cannot say enough good things about VMI. You don't just get a school, you get a "family". I
 
So glad she has found more options. The SMC's are a wonderful opportunity. But, I'm a bit biased with my DS being at Rat at VMI. I feel like he has more of an opportunity to shine at VMI vs the SA, for example if he had gone to West Point ( he did not receive an appointment but did apply, 3q and 2 nominations) he would be in a class of 1200, at VMI he Matriculated with a class of 495.

She should visit all and see what feels right


VMI is her absolute favorite! (After USNA, of course!). Citadel not so much; while it does offer a lot of what she's looking for, I guess she just isn't feeling it, although I'm not sure why. We are trying to plan visits to both.

Definitely recommend visits! DS visited both VMI & The Citadel with VMI being his first choice. After the visits, he changed his mind. No particular reason....just "felt right."
 
Look into the Maritime Academy's. My son got his USNR Ensign Commission upon graduation. One of the seven chose direct to USN. They received their commission on board USS Constitution. Hard to take pictures on that ship when you are 6' 3". It is another route to consider.
 
Thanks for the replies! DD is a Sea Cadet, currently E-3, soon to be petty officer. She's done quite a few Sea Cadet trainings and loves every minute of it. She is not interested in ROTC because she does not want to switch back and forth between military/student life - she really wants to be "all-in" the military. Her passion for USNA is not for the college aspect, but because she loves the Navy environment there. She was invited for a CVW last Feb., which confirmed it for her - she absolutely loved it. She's mature for her age and has no patience for typical teenage drama - I can't imagine her going to college with ROTC and having roommates going to keg parties, ha ha.

Her end goal is SEALs (when/if it opens to women), with EOD as her second choice. She's spoken with the recruiting officer a few times, and she took the practice ASVAB; she did ok on it but can do better and wants to take her time to study for the real test. She's aware that if she's not offered an appointment and enlists for what she wants to do (SEAL/EOD), that it might be year 2 of enlistment before she could reapply since she'd be at BUDs. (She's also aware that her goals mean going to BUDs after USNA).

A few people she knows are enlisting, and many of them are not getting the offers they want, even with high ASVAB scores. This is her concern and why she's pondering starting enlistment process now. The recruiting officer is putting the pressure on her.

First off, I admire your DD goals for SPECWAR. Secondly, the recruiters are just meeting number quotas . At the end of the day your daughter could walk into MEPS , not see the job she wants , and just walk out . Then visit again next month or etc. For SPECWAR that's not how it works though . You take your ASVAB and your physical tests at a recruiting station . You are then entered into pretty much a raffle. Even if your scores aren't competitive (which I have seen plenty of ) they are likely to get picked up . The real test will be the pipeline . If that's what she wants though chase it ! I went through my pipeline (Aircewman\ rescue swimmer) with a lot of bud studs and EOD guys and work directly with them frequently. It's a very rewarding job . Also , she can still apply for the academy once she is enlisted . Just food for thought. Hope this helped!
 
Local WBAL NBC news noted tonight that USNA will start screening juniors (2/c) women for SEAL next year. Though they have not received specific guidance from "big Navy," they will include women in the screeners and briefing process. That means '17 could have the first women service-select SEAL. I say "could" - the screeners are rigorous and very few men make it. It will be interesting to watch it unfold.
 
Might also want to check out Texas AM (Corps of Cadets). If applying as an OOS, the Corps, have various types of scholarships that waive OOS tuition and pay IN State. Also they have about 20 different outfits to choose from including various SPECWAR. Hope this helps.
 
EOD/SEAL Mom,
I was just wondering how things turned out for your daughter. My 17 year old DD just announced yesterday that she intends to enlist in the Marines in the Early Entry Program. Not without my signature, I responded, and that's not going to happen. I believe she should wait and play out the application process before she enlists in the Marines. DD claims that enlisting in the EEP will help her chances of getting into USNA or getting an NROTC scholarship because it will show her committment to service. I think enlisting will prevent her from having the option of reapplying to the USNA in the future should she decide to and I'm not at all convinced it is as easy to get out of the EEP as DD says it is. I read all the posts on the forum and the unanimous opinion is to wait, and not rush into signing up for EEP. How did you handle this with your DD?

By the way, I think there is a good chance our daughters know each other through Sea Cadets. Was your daughter a little chilly at a training recently?



 
Honestly, if the goal is to be an officer, don't enlist. Will it add points, maybe, but enough to sway admissions, no. I tell anyone who thinks this route is the best way to get a SA or ROTC, they need to be prepared to serve their entire enlistment contract. Reapplying fromthe fleet isn't a guarantee or even something that can happen right away. By the time you finish all your schools and get to the fleet it could take 1-2 years before even being in a place to reapply. A command might say, nope you need to be here for 1 year before I write a recommendation. If she wants to be an officer and go the SA/ROTC route, then put the energy, effort, an sacrifice there. If you daughter wants to be a Marine, then work on Plan A-Z with USNA, ROTC, college programmer, PLC, OCC options.
 
Thank you Navy Hoops for your response. What is college programmer, PLC, and OCC? Im new to this forum and haven't learned the lingo yet.
 
Statistically the worst way to commission is via the enlisted path.
Enlisted recruiters will say it will make you a stronger candidate.
It will not. The recruiters mission to to enlist people and they will say whatever they need to to complete that mission.
Be careful.
 
Back
Top