Students sent home for wearing American flag shirts

Imagine a group of American kids in a Mexican school celebrating the 4th of July.
Imagine that some of the Mexican kids wore representations of the Mexican flag that day.
Imagine the American kids demanding that the Mexican kids apologize for wearing their national flag.

Imagine the ACLU hosting a protest.
 
All I can say is this is crazy. Who cares if "it might cause problems?" It's not the patriotic students' fault if there are problems. If other kids have problems with it, they're the ones with problems. If they have a problem with a kid wearing his flag in his country (even if it is on sinko dee miyo), that's his problem. If I were in Mexico on July 4, it would be crazy if I were offended at some of the kids there wearing Mexican flags on their shirts. What is this country coming to? Students get in trouble for wearing american flags to school. That's just sad. :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:
 
What was the name of the assistant principal?

Again, I disagree with them forcing them to remove the shirt. All I'm saying is those were definetly some punk kids, especially considering the guy was wearing a tapout shirt. And more than likely misrepresenting the american flag...It wasn't for patriotism, it was to mess with the mexican americans at the high school.
 
Again, I disagree with them forcing them to remove the shirt. All I'm saying is those were definetly some punk kids, especially considering the guy was wearing a tapout shirt. And more than likely misrepresenting the american flag...It wasn't for patriotism, it was to mess with the mexican americans at the high school.

And what do you think made then want to "mess with" the Mexican Americans, on that day instead of any other day. Was anything going on that day that say...doesn't happen the other 364 days of the year?

Do the Polish American kids, or German American kids, or Iranian American kids enjoy the same school sponsored fun on their special days?
 
Do the Polish American kids, or German American kids, or Iranian American kids enjoy the same school sponsored fun on their special days?

Ha! That never occurred to me. Is there a specific reason why Cinco de Mayo is celebrated in the US? One could then ask why there exists a "Black History Month" and why all the other minorities don't get their own special attention a month out of the year :rolleyes:

OT: It was wrong to force the students to remove their shirts. I don't think it was grounds for telling them to turn their shirts inside out simply because the VP had a hunch that it would pose a "safety issue." Its unprofessional that a school administrator acted on his own, unsupported claims. It WAS a violation of the 1st Amendment. But it does beg the question - why did they choose that one day out of the year to wear shirts displaying the American flag?
 
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Ha! That never occurred to me. Is there a specific reason why Cinco de Mayo is celebrated in the US? One could then ask why there exists a "Black History Month" and why all the other minorities don't get their own special attention a month out of the year :rolleyes:

OT: It was wrong to force the students to remove their shirts. I don't think it was grounds for telling them to turn their shirts inside out simply because the VP had a hunch that it would pose a "safety issue." Its unprofessional that a school administrator acted on his own, unsupported claims. It WAS a violation of the 1st Amendment. But it does beg the question - why did they choose that one day out of the year to wear shirts displaying the American flag?

Students 1st Amendment rights are limited, so says the SCOTUS.

Research the Supreme Court case titled "Bong Hits For Jesus."
 
Students 1st Amendment rights are limited, so says the SCOTUS.

Research the Supreme Court case titled "Bong Hits For Jesus."

I was under the impression that as long as students did not disrupt school activities or provoke violence (Tinker v. Des Moines) anything otherwise would be constitutionally protected free speech. It seems that all that happened was that some Mexican-Americans got upset over it, so I would assume that their rights were protected.
 
I was under the impression that as long as students did not disrupt school activities or provoke violence (Tinker v. Des Moines) anything otherwise would be constitutionally protected free speech.

Who decides whether or not it is disruptive? :confused:

No one but the man who sent them home. His decision, his judgement.
 
Who decides whether or not it is disruptive? :confused:

No one but the man who sent them home. His decision, his judgement.

The ASSISTANT principal, whose decision was criticized by the school board (the people he works for).
 
It seems like that administration is trying to be too politically correct here. I understand it is not proper etiquette, but those were AMERICANS wearing the AMERICAN flag in AMERICA. Even if the wore it on MEXICAN independence day, why should the school sponsor the celebration of another countries holiday in AMERICA.
From the commercials on TV and facebook status updates/pictures, it seems that cinco de mayo is another excuse to party and get drunk. I think the kids should have been allowed to wear those shirts.
 
Principal sorry for kicking patriotic students off campus; Roger Ebert frustrated

Los Angeles Times
May 8, 2010

Good news for Morgan Hill, Calif. students who like America. Now they can wear patriotic clothing to school and not risk being booted from campus.

This marks a stunning reversal since an episode in which five high school students were kicked out of school for wearing T-shirts adorned with images of the American flag on Cinco de Mayo.

Assistant Principal Miguel Rodriguez threw the students out for wearing what he called "incendiary" apparel on Cinco de Mayo.

Turns out, school officials just acted too "quickly." Perhaps even without thinking.

Live Oak High School Principal Nick Boden accepted the blame while apologizing Friday, saying, "In this situation, I may have moved too quickly in drawing the line of when to take preventative action."

Officials had cited concerns that fights between students could erupt because of the "incendiary" images of the U.S. flag on the holiday.
"This was never about whether students were allowed to wear patriotic clothing on our campuses. They can. It was about ensuring that our high school campus was orderly and safe," Wesley Smith, superintendent for Morgan Hill Unified School District, said Friday at a press conference.

The apology doesn't satisfy some. They want Rodriguez fired. In fact, they've set up a Facebook page to solicit support.

Writes the creator of the page: "This blatant disrespect toward our country and anti-American infringement on a student's right to learn should not be tolerated. Take action. Sign the petition, send emails to the school and tell your friends."

Meanwhile, film critic Roger Ebert continued to discuss the situation over Twitter.

On Thursday, he recommended that the offending students "share a lunchroom table with those who wear a hammer and sickle on 4 July."

He received plenty of grief and general mockery for that statement in the blogosphere, so he took to Twitter Friday explaining he "did NOT equate the American Flag with the hammer and sickle. Some people can't read, or deliberately falsify."

Seeming to be frustrated, Ebert later said: "I'll explain this one more time: Those five kids wore matching t-shirts IN ORDER to deliberately insult Mexican-Americans."
 
And what do you think made then want to "mess with" the Mexican Americans, on that day instead of any other day.?

Simply because they are punk teens. I think that is justification enough. My guess is it was just another mode for these teens to mess with them.

Was anything going on that day that say...doesn't happen the other 364 days of the year?

Yes, Cinco de Mayo. Occurs once a year.


It was absolutely wrong for the principal to make them take off their shirts. I was not disagreeing with anyone one on that. I believe in freedom of speech. I may not like what people have to say, but I'm sure as heck not going to stop anyone from saying it.

I was simply pointing out something that I think the media portrayed incorrectly and that is that they were being "patriotic." They were not being patriotic at all.

I guarantee you if I went to my public school wearing a shirt displaying the flag on cinco de mayo nothing would happen. Why? Because I'm not going to be running around to the hispanics (something I'm 99% positive these punk kids did) and shoving it in their face (my guess while making several demeaning comments). It wasn't the shirt that created the problem, it was the attitude under it.
 
My personal opinion? I agree with Apgollozi. Why do we even celebrate Cinco De Mayo? To get drunk and party...that is purely the reason for most Americans. This holiday isn't even a big deal in Mexico itself! It's a minor holiday that is barely celebrated there.

And I agree with LITS, if Cinco De Mayo can be celebrated in schools and whatnot, then I want a day for every heritage. Maybe "European History Month?"
 
Being pro-something does not necessarily make someone anti-anything! I can be pro-chocolate and that does not mean that I am anti-vanilla, nor that vanilla lovers should be offended by my love for chocolate.

In this case, being pro-American does not make one anti-Mexican. Unless those two nations are at war, there is nothing provocative in showing your love of one country to those who love the other country.

It is also not mutually exclusive. You can actually love two countries. Weren't those who were supposedly likely to be offended Mexican Americans? I would certainly hope they love America in addition to Mexico! Assuming so, what could they possibly find offensive about someone wearing the symbol of their adopted homeland?!
 
Being pro-something does not necessarily make someone anti-anything! I can be pro-chocolate and that does not mean that I am anti-vanilla, nor that vanilla lovers should be offended by my love for chocolate.

In this case, being pro-American does not make one anti-Mexican. Unless those two nations are at war, there is nothing provocative in showing your love of one country to those who love the other country.

It is also not mutually exclusive. You can actually love two countries. Weren't those who were supposedly likely to be offended Mexican Americans? I would certainly hope they love America in addition to Mexico! Assuming so, what could they possibly find offensive about someone wearing the symbol of their adopted homeland?!

But you're forgetting the fact that the students deliberately CHOSE that day out of the school year to "display their love for America." goldfarb1's assessment is right - although the vice-principal's decision to tell the students to remove their shirts was wrong, he was still correct in realizing that they wore them just to spite the other Mexican students.

Your argument would work if those white students wore their shirts on any other day and their intentions were out of genuine patriotism. On Cinco de Mayo this year, they were not.

The holiday was, although some of us disagree that it should even be sponsored in the US, still a Mexican holiday. Although you're arguing that since Mexican-American were celebrating it, they should have no problem with the representation of American flags during its celebration. I don't think thats being very respecful or understanding of the holiday. Just because they were Mexican-Americans doesn't make the holiday Mexican-American too! One of the posters before gave this example, switching the positions, and I'm not sure if you read it.

Say a school had been celebrating the American Independence Day. And the school happened to be very patriotic and enthusiastic - nearly everyone came to school that day wearing red, white, and blue. Imagine it as a school that is overwhelmingly white, just as the school in this news was overwhelmingly Hispanic. And four Mexicans came to school decked out in red, green, and white, waving little Mexican flags. It would be plainly antagonizing and disrespectful of a day that was focused on the celebration of an AMERICAN holiday.

NO ONE minds someone displaying his/her affection for his/her country. Just why choose to do it on that day?
 
But you're forgetting the fact that the students deliberately CHOSE that day out of the school year to "display their love for America." goldfarb1's assessment is right - although the vice-principal's decision to tell the students to remove their shirts was wrong, he was still correct in realizing that they wore them just to spite the other Mexican students.

Your argument would work if those white students wore their shirts on any other day and their intentions were out of genuine patriotism. On Cinco de Mayo this year, they were not.

The holiday was, although some of us disagree that it should even be sponsored in the US, still a Mexican holiday. Although you're arguing that since Mexican-American were celebrating it, they should have no problem with the representation of American flags during its celebration. I don't think thats being very respecful or understanding of the holiday. Just because they were Mexican-Americans doesn't make the holiday Mexican-American too! One of the posters before gave this example, switching the positions, and I'm not sure if you read it.

Say a school had been celebrating the American Independence Day. And the school happened to be very patriotic and enthusiastic - nearly everyone came to school that day wearing red, white, and blue. Imagine it as a school that is overwhelmingly white, just as the school in this news was overwhelmingly Hispanic. And four Mexicans came to school decked out in red, green, and white, waving little Mexican flags. It would be plainly antagonizing and disrespectful of a day that was focused on the celebration of an AMERICAN holiday.

NO ONE minds someone displaying his/her affection for his/her country. Just why choose to do it on that day?

None of that matters one bit.

You are absolutely correct that it was no accident that those students chose that day to show their pride in America. So what? Showing that pride is not disrespectful of those celebrating their own pride in their heritage. As I stated, being pro-something is not being necessarily anti-anything! Again, it is NOT antagonistic or inflammatory to say, "This is what I am proud of," regardless of the day you choose to say it or the audience to whom that statement was intended.

If I were to guess at the subtext of their statement of patriotic pride, I suppose it to be, "while you are celebrating your foreign heritage, we would like to remind you that you are doing so in America, which we are equally proud of (we sure hope you are too)." You can try to read your own statement of hate into their actions, but, like that vice principal, doing so says more about your own prejudices than any those students may have.

Your Independence Day analogy also is entirely wrong, not to mention moot. You are talking about an American national holiday being celebrated in America, not American's celebrating their holiday in a foreign land. We celebrated on the 4th of July every year that we lived in Germany. It would have been laughable to expect that Germans should be denied their right to display their national pride right back at us if they chose to do so...in fact, each year, several did. That display of their national pride on their part was not an affront to us as Americans; it was just them puffing up their own chests at the same time we were puffing up our own. Them [effectively] saying, "You American's are not the only ones who love your country" is not the same as them saying, "We hate you Americans; go home."

That being said, as I stated above, the point is entirely moot, anyway. Even if, as you described in your scenario, someone in America were to choose Independence Day of all days to show their pride in their foreign heritage, I would consider it an odd--even poor--choice, but it would still be every bit witin their rights (as stated in an amendment to that constitution I swore to uphold and defend a long time ago). I would wish that they were proud enough in their adopted country to join the rest of us in celebrating it, rather than choosing that particular day to show pride in their foreign heritage, but I would certainly NOT see anything about their display of pride as provocative. After all, their being pro-Mexican (or German or Sweedish or...) is not being anti-American.
 
Sure, I'll give it to you that motive matters. However, regardless of the motive, when is it wrong to wear the AMERICAN flag in AMERICA as an AMERICAN citizen, regardless of which of the days it happens to be on?
 
Sure, I'll give it to you that motive matters.

Really?!

Think about that for a moment.

I am NOT a lawyer, but I do not believe that whether speech is constitutionally protected speech, depends upon what is in the speaker's head. I am pretty sure that whether speech is protected, depends upon the content of the speech, not what someone could have been thinking at the time it was made.

I will grant that the circumstances matter with regard to how one could reasonably expect others to interpret that particular speech, but that is different than motive. Otherwise, the courts would have to interpret thoughts.

OK, any real lawyers care to set me straight?
 
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