Sub Drafting

[justdoit19]

Hello Memphis9489, my son who just started his senior year in ROTC just found out he was sub-drafted. Would you please send me a PM and let me know your strategy for avoiding submarine service? Thanks in advance.

You might get an answer if you PM Memphis, maybe not. This is a post for 2013.

The other thing you can do is search the forums with the search tool for more current discussions about you topic. It comes up regularly. Or start a new thread.

Is your son not wanting subs?

 

[IMAROTCDAD]

Hello Memphis9489, my son who just started his senior year in ROTC just found out he was sub-drafted. Would you please send me a PM and let me know your strategy for avoiding submarine service? Thanks in advance.

You might get an answer if you PM Memphis, maybe not. This is a post for 2013.

The other thing you can do is search the forums with the search tool for more current discussions about you topic. It comes up regularly. Or start a new thread.

Is your son not wanting subs?

Thanks for the info "Justdoit19". I thought there was recent activity under the Memphis thread. My son does not want subs. But ultimately will do what he has to do. I am just wondering if there is any way around it tactfully. Thanks again for the heads up on thread date. I am new to this forum and have not figured out how to PM yet.

 

[justdoit19]

If you are new, you aren’t able to until you have five posts. After that, it takes a minute to kick in. The. You can PM.

Don’t have any advice for you RE subs. Do you know how to use the search function? Use keywords like ‘sub draft’ and variations. Good luck! Get those 5 posts!

 

[UHBlackhawk]

Reference medical. Those who wish to go that route don’t be crushed if not selected. I know a number of doctors in the Army who went other branches first, then were selected for medical school after a tour. Heck, I know a few who were O-4s when selected for medical school, one was a Marine officer but went to medical school with the Army.
In many ways I feel they actually make better docs.
Remember, once you go medical that is your career. You can go another route, however, then go to medical school later.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

If the possibility of being drafted is a concern I would contact Memphis4989. I’m sure the ins and outs have changed, but my brother was a USNA grad during the Rickover years. He spoke about throwing some STEM class tests so his GPA wouldn’t be high enough to get noticed. But it was a fine line as he still had to do well enough to get a flight slot.

 

[IMAROTCDAD]

If you are new, you aren’t able to until you have five posts. After that, it takes a minute to kick in. The. You can PM.

Don’t have any advice for you RE subs. Do you know how to use the search function? Use keywords like ‘sub draft’ and variations. Good luck! Get those 5 posts!

Yes, I know how to search. I did find some more recent posts from Memphis on the subject. Thanks again.

 

[justdoit19]

You can also search for a posters posts, follow them. Click on their profile...sounds like they may have good info for you. Hope things work out for your son.

 

[IMAROTCDAD]

You can also search for a posters posts, follow them. Click on their profile...sounds like they may have good info for you. Hope things work out for your son.

Much appreciated!

 

[IMAROTCDAD]

If the possibility of being drafted is a concern I would contact Memphis4989. I’m sure the ins and outs have changed, but my brother was a USNA grad during the Rickover years. He spoke about throwing some STEM class tests so his GPA wouldn’t be high enough to get noticed. But it was a fine line as he still had to do well enough to get a flight slot.

My son is a High achieving ME student and he just started his senior year. It is too late for him to "throw" a class. He has already been sub-drafted. I have read that that means he will have to go to an interview and test. I will contact Memphis4989 when I get access to the PM feature.

 

[helmsdown]

If the possibility of being drafted is a concern I would contact Memphis4989. I’m sure the ins and outs have changed, but my brother was a USNA grad during the Rickover years. He spoke about throwing some STEM class tests so his GPA wouldn’t be high enough to get noticed. But it was a fine line as he still had to do well enough to get a flight slot.

My son is a High achieving ME student and he just started his senior year. It is too late for him to "throw" a class. He has already been sub-drafted. I have read that that means he will have to go to an interview and test. I will contact Memphis4989 when I get access to the PM feature.

What are you going to do if he gets out Subs but doesn't like some aspect of his new assignment?

 

[IMAROTCDAD]

If the possibility of being drafted is a concern I would contact Memphis4989. I’m sure the ins and outs have changed, but my brother was a USNA grad during the Rickover years. He spoke about throwing some STEM class tests so his GPA wouldn’t be high enough to get noticed. But it was a fine line as he still had to do well enough to get a flight slot.

My son is a High achieving ME student and he just started his senior year. It is too late for him to "throw" a class. He has already been sub-drafted. I have read that that means he will have to go to an interview and test. I will contact Memphis4989 when I get access to the PM feature.

What are you going to do if he gets out Subs but doesn't like some aspect of his new assignment?

I'm going to have a tantrum and call President Trump. I am just trying to help my son see if there are any options since Submarine duty was low on his list. I am finding that there are many strategies to getting what you want if you know how to play the game. In my humble opinion, it appears that the Navy penalizes you for working hard and being a high achiever by "forcing" you into duty that you did not want. With that said, the Submarine Community is very respected and highly sought after for many but my son just had a different vision for his service. My son has already said that he will give the interview his best effort and if selected serve to the best of his abilities. As a parent it is disappointing that all of his hard work may end in doing a job he does not want. And yes we know about the needs of the Navy but thought being a high achieving engineering student would get him his first service choice.

 

[kinnem]

As a parent it is disappointing that all of his hard work may end in doing a job he does not want.

... and if it happens remain open to the possibility that he'll end up loving it.

 

[IMAROTCDAD]

As a parent it is disappointing that all of his hard work may end in doing a job he does not want.

... and if it happens remain open to the possibility that he'll end up loving it.

Yep, he just might...

 

[NavyHoops]

This happens every year. Throwing something won’t help. He is doing the right thing... giving it all. He can say his peace at every opportunity he can that he will do what the Navy tells him, but his desires are something else. I met a new Ensign last year this happened to. He went through round after round of interviews saying his peace. In the end he got subs. His response was, ‘my sailors deserve the best. I will do my best.’ In the end if he earns his dolphins and submits a warfare redesignation, I am pretty sure any redeeming CO would 100% him and make some phone calls.

 

[Sydney C.]

[QUOTE="IMAROTCDAD, post: 688503, member: And yes we know about the needs of the Navy but thought being a high achieving engineering student would get him his first service choice.
[/QUOTE]

And therein lies, the answer. The needs of the Navy come FIRST.

My DS had a rommie who was a very "high achieving physics major" who chose subs last, was drafted and got it. He's come to comfortable place with it all and will thrive. In his words "I was never promised or guaranteed anything. I knew what I committed to and what I signed up for".

 

[Memphis9489]

There is one very important thing to remember if being targeted by the submarine community: They are very proud that they are an "all volunteer force". So, what they are looking for in these interviews with unwilling midshipmen is a change-of-heart or ambivalence.

Example of ambivalence: They will start off by flattering the targeted midshipman. "We have looked over your record and, whether you realize it or not, you are ideally suited for the submarine community. You're exactly what we're looking for. We can see that you will excel in the submarine community - even if you're not fully aware of it. There are over 70 years of submarine experience in this room and we know the real deal when we see it ... We notice that you have subs as your 2nd choice. How strongly do you feel about that? Can you even conceive of serving in the submarine community?"

If the midshipman says something like this - he's toast. "Well, I enjoyed my submarine experience during Protramid - and it was a tough decision to decide to go air over subs. They are both excellent communities in which I would be proud to serve."

Bingo! Music to their ears. Unwittingly, this midshipman basically said, "My first and second choice are equal" - at least, that's the way they'll interpret it. So, assigning this midshipman his second choice is not "forcing" him. He just volunteered! After all, didn't he just equate his top two choices?

The key is to make it clear that your choices are your choices. The academy asked him to make a preference list and he did. They are in the order of preference. This has to be conveyed assertively and respectively. They will shutter when the midshipman says things like, "I would be lying to you if I said that my preferences are anything other than what they are." If pressured even further, they will again shutter if the midshipman says, "If ordered into submarines, I will say 'aye, aye, sir' and do my best - but it is not my first choice."

The midshipman can also say something like, "You say I would be perfect for submarines by looking at the papers before you that likely address the courses I took, the grades I received in those courses, and other things like my military aptitude. What's not on those papers is what is in my heart - where my passion lies - what excites me about my future in the Navy. I have been asked to convey my preferences based on my exposure to and education of various communities during my years here at the academy. My preferences are what they are. My first choice is my first choice. My second choice is my second choice. I'm not confused nor ambivalent about that order."

Never forget that you are not the only one being targeted to fill the submarine quota. Don't be the slowest running antelope. The hyena usually catches the slowest running antelope. Just run away faster - but respectfully.

(This is the Reader's Digest version)

 

[IMAROTCDAD]

There is one very important thing to remember if being targeted by the submarine community: They are very proud that they are an "all volunteer force". So, what they are looking for in these interviews with unwilling midshipmen is a change-of-heart or ambivalence.

Example of ambivalence: They will start off by flattering the targeted midshipman. "We have looked over your record and, whether you realize it or not, you are ideally suited for the submarine community. You're exactly what we're looking for. We can see that you will excel in the submarine community - even if you're not fully aware of it. There are over 70 years of submarine experience in this room and we know the real deal when we see it ... We notice that you have subs as your 2nd choice. How strongly do you feel about that? Can you even conceive of serving in the submarine community?"

If the midshipman says something like this - he's toast. "Well, I enjoyed my submarine experience during Protramid - and it was a tough decision to decide to go air over subs. They are both excellent communities in which I would be proud to serve."

Bingo! Music to their ears. Unwittingly, this midshipman basically said, "My first and second choice are equal" - at least, that's the way they'll interpret it. So, assigning this midshipman his second choice is not "forcing" him. He just volunteered! After all, didn't he just equate his top two choices?

The key is to make it clear that your choices are your choices. The academy asked him to make a preference list and he did. They are in the order of preference. This has to be conveyed assertively and respectively. They will shutter when the midshipman says things like, "I would be lying to you if I said that my preferences are anything other than what they are." If pressured even further, they will again shutter if the midshipman says, "If ordered into submarines, I will say 'aye, aye, sir' and do my best - but it is not my first choice."

The midshipman can also say something like, "You say I would be perfect for submarines by looking at the papers before you that likely address the courses I took, the grades I received in those courses, and other things like my military aptitude. What's not on those papers is what is in my heart - where my passion lies - what excites me about my future in the Navy. I have been asked to convey my preferences based on my exposure to and education of various communities during my years here at the academy. My preferences are what they are. My first choice is my first choice. My second choice is my second choice. I'm not confused nor ambivalent about that order."

Never forget that you are not the only one being targeted to fill the submarine quota. Don't be the slowest running antelope. The hyena usually catches the slowest running antelope. Just run away faster - but respectfully.

(This is the Reader's Digest version)

My son is in NROTC but I'm sure the same would apply. By the way, his sub cruise was cancelled so he never got to experience any real submarine time. Do you know if anything can be done at the NROTC unit level before getting to the interview?

 

[Capt MJ]

Bookmarking this for Memphis’ keeper tactical response!

 

[Norfolk63]

Subs are pretty cool!

 

[pilot2b]

Memphis9489 has very good advice. If a mid being looked at for a SARB has a good relationship with a mentor from the community he desires to enter, I'd suggest going to talk to them. Depending on the spine that mentor may or may not have, they could offer some good advice (albeit maybe not officially condoned by the academy).

An example - a classmate of mine was being forced into subs when he wanted to go aviation. He talked to an officer on the yard in aviation who knew how to game the system. This officer told him what to do if he really wanted to go aviation. When my classmate went to DC to interview with the admiral, there were a number of O-3s around who told each mid to basically shut up, color, be polite, and thank the admiral for the opportunity to go subs during the interview, no matter your personal feelings. When this mid interviewed, the admiral asked him why he wanted subs. The mid said unequivocally that he did not want to go subs. The admiral was upset and sent him out of the office. The O-3s outside were furious. But when service assignment came around in November, this mid got pilot. He now has his wings.

Compare that to one of my roommates who got SARBed for subs. My roommate was asked why he wanted to certain different selection. He replied that he saw it as a challenge. Wrong answer if he wanted to avoid subs. He was told that subs would also offer a challenge and the board interpreted that response as volunteering, just like Memphis mentioned.

I would not suggest doing what one mid did. He admitted at one point, I believe while in DC for the interview, to some recreational drug use while in high school in the belief that it would disqualify him from the nuke pipeline while leaving other service assignments open to him.

To those who think mids should learn to accept the needs of the service - there is some truth in that. A certain number of mids each year will be disappointed no matter what. When they commission, they should embrace their community. Until then though, if they really want something, I would urge them to fight with every available tool at their disposal to get their desired service assignment. Persistence and being shrewd can get you far.