Success Rate

VRSCDX

VRSCDX

10-Year Member
5-Year Member
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Jan 21, 2009
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Does anybody keep statistics of how many people enter a class that finish and graduate? More importantly, what are the reasons for the drops?

My wife talked to an upperclassman's father today who apparently painted a grim picture. 75% failure rate for statistics. 197 graduated out of 300 for the 2009 graduation.

In any regards, her concerns just went up a notch. These kids all have to be at the top of their classes to get in, and we know it is going to be tough. But 75% failure rate in physics from a bunch of bright kids just does not add up. And when the academic setbacks go away, seems like there will be plenty of empty rooms in the barracks.

This just wasn't the news we were hoping to hear 2 weeks before INDOC. I hope somebody can paint a more realistic picture. Maybe we heard some overly dramatic statistical representations. Hope so.
 
Yeah, i'm a bit nervous about the rigorous academics that are going to be shoved down our throats. That statistic seems about right if what my host was telling was correct. He told me that the russian physics teacher failed 65% of his class first tri this year. Thats just how it goes. Its a matter of just doing your best and hope you can make it through.
 
Two years ago when our son started I checked the graduation rate. 79% seemed to be the most common figure. 79% if any freshman class graduating would seem on par with just about any college, if not higher.
 
You know I just found a statistic online that said 71% grad rate, making USMMA one of the top 10 schools in the nation for graduation success rates of incoming freshman. 3 of the 5 service academies were in the top 10. So that is a comforting statistic.

However, the Russian physics teacher failing a huge portion of his class leaves other questions. Is he the only physics teacher? If not what are the success rates of the other classes? Then if his failure rate is high compared to the others it would seem like uneven standards.

In any regards we are half comforted by the statistics and half terrified. Then it would seem 2013 is the first class with new setback standards where setbacks are getting withdrawn. We talked to two parents of two soon to be upperclassmen today. Both their plebes failed a class. It is just hard to think of this as a concern, when most our concerns in the past was over a point or two in an AP class to make the difference between a B+ and an A.
 
Yes, there are other physics teachers. Some I've heard, easier graders and seem to be more laid back. For example, there are two calc teachers, I won't mention names but, one will let you sleep in class and tends to grade easily while, the other will try to push the pace and seems to grade much harder. Its all luck of who you get. However, thats not an excuse of failing a class because people have done it before you, so you can to. Its just a matter of how much time and work you want to put in.

The big classes that tend to have alot of failures are: Calc 1 & 2, Physics 1 & 2, Chemistry, and sometimes the Navigational classes trip some people up.

Like I previously said, just do your very best and don't give up.
 
it's not all a matter of who you get. all teachers are passable. some are much tougher than others.
i see it as a huge problem that i'm pretty sure they're working on fixing and that's the issue of standardization. what would pass you with flying colors with one teacher may just get you to squeak by with another.
bottom line is you've got to grit your teeth and stand your ground and refuse to give up. if i can make it, you can make it--and i'm going into my senior year.
 
Yes, the academics are hard. Plus the terms are shorter so the pace is faster. We're quite relieved that our plebe didn't fail anything. (Hmmm, maybe we should be even more grateful than we already were. . .) And our idea of a decent GPA is certainly different than it was for high school. It's not easy, but it can be done. To echo Is2day, it requires determination. You've also got to be willing to get help. The help is there, but you've got to take advantage of it and not wait until you're in over your head. As for differences in professors, you'll have that anywhere. My husband still likes to complain about how miserable his freshman English class was compared to mine - same course, different profs.
 
Also, the year spent at sea means that the mids have to cram 4 years of education into 3 years at the Academy. The pace can be overwhelming at times and the course load is incredible. When my daughter graduates from a fairly prestigious school in D.C. she will graduate with 120 credits accumulated over 4 years. My son will earned have over 174. In any other program these kids might be well on their way to a masters degree. In fact, my son has a high school classmate at Stanford who is in a program that grants a masters in 5 years and her course load is similar to his. She, however, doesn't have the Regiment to contend with. Get help early, even if you are not sure you need it. Some of these professors only give 2 or 3 tests. if you "tank" in one of them you are toast.
 
Bottom line is, if you want to succeed here you can.

Example of how a teacher can have an effect. My son is going into his junior year. We were looking at his grades since plebe year. Most of his grades are A's and high B's, except in two classes in which he got a C and a C+. Calc 1 and Differential Equations 2....both the same professor. That tells you something. Also that physics class where most of the kids failed, my boy got an A. So, as you see you can pass and it does appear that the professors do have an impact, but it can be done. The key is to do your work, don't play on the computer, don't play wii, maybe instead of going out on a saturday night, you stay in and study for that Calc or Physics test on Monday.

One word of advice to all, including the parents. Forget about being a "star" at high school. Forget about that 4.0 GPA. From my perspective, KP is quite the equalizer. I heard a speech by Academic Dean Kumar where he said that a "normal" college requires around 127 Credit to graduate; Our kids at KP will have around 180 when they graduate, and all crammed into 3 years. :eek:
 
Well said KPMOM....the other thing new parents need to understand is...

D means Done!!!!

I wasn't happy about that but you learn real quick better to pass with a D than fail.

The Valedictorian had a 3.8 and that was unheard of. According to son, no one has ever graduated with a 4.0.

:shake:
 
D does indeed mean done in fact there is an "urban legend" of a mid who insisted on retaking a class to bring up a "D", failed it the second time and got dis enrolled.
 
I would think if a teacher fails a majority of the students then there is a real problem. I know that if I give a test and everyone fails then I rethink my aproach of the test. Mean, median and mode are often good indicators. I am not looking for an excuse, only reasonableness. I expect my DS to work harder than ever before and do the best he can posibly do, no excuses.
 
you want them to be reasonable? haha...
that would only make sense, so remember, this is government stuff. common sense must be left at the door.
 
I agree with is2day. But let me re-phrase somewhat.... The professors at KP go by a different book than what is out there in the civvy world. Sometimes their hands are tied by an academic dean who holds them to the rules, sometimes not. A service academy is a different world. Fair? Not always. Also not likely. It'll be tough work but it is doable. I have proof.
 
Sorry I was so silly. DS will do all that he has to do and then some. As long as it is doable that is the key.
 
Mindy, "silly" isn't applicable in your case. :smile: Sorry if I came across in a harsh way. I truly didn't mean it in that way. I think the descriptions here come from frustrations experienced. Its a hard four years for sure. I am knocking wood these days that I even have a KP grad.

Its sometimes so difficult to explain certain things. Its easy to advise new KP folks on what to expect from things like INDOC but VERY hard in helping to prepare anyone for what every day life will be like. It is the norm that KP kids end up with 50+ credits the first year. Crazy stuff! The academics are just one of those things that can only be understood as time goes along.

I'm so glad is2day is here to give a first hand perspective. I'm sending him weapons to fight his way through this upcoming year. A chainsaw, ninja stuff, a claymore, and Jamz old nerf gun with night vision attatchment. :biggrin:
 
jamzmom said:
I'm so glad is2day is here to give a first hand perspective. I'm sending him weapons to fight his way through this upcoming year. A chainsaw, ninja stuff, a claymore, and Jamz old nerf gun with night vision attatchment. :biggrin:
Click to expand...

awesomes...
could we add a mapp gas torch? i think with the chainsaw, ninja equipment, claymores, the night vision nerf gun, and some mapp gas i could do quite well here... haha
oh and don't forget the essential bubble gum and bailing wire! :thumb:
 
:yllol: No no...think big guns. I'm thinking more of a miller matic mig 200 welder is2day. You can use it to weld the other mids into their hooches & leave you the freak alone while you're studying for stuff. Will send you a hydro plamsa 200 to cut them out when your done. Mmmwwwaaahhhh.
 
Don't forget the essentials like duct tape, velcro and tie wraps. Don't leave home w/o it!!
 
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