Supreme Court Rules For Pentagon in SEALS Vaccination Case

On the face of it, most everyone would agree the Courts shouldn’t tell the CIC what to do with respect to deployments. On the other hand, with this particular topic, with what we know now about the shots no longer stopping transmission of current strains, the infinitesimal risks to healthy young people, and the very real side effects on some individuals, I would vote to drop it all at this point. This is an odd case and I’m not sure of another parallel, but for the points made above, at some point our service members should be able to obtain relief from the feelings of their temporary leadership.
 
jebdad said:
Dude, you need to chill out. You are jumping to ridiculous conclusions. I can't wait for your public apology when we find out it was not six football players.
Click to expand...

Small Team Bacsi said:
“I would vote”

Another for packing the court ?
Click to expand...
Meaning: if I was on the SCOTUS, I would vote (rule?) to discard any vaccine requirement mandates for the reasons I stated in my first post. (“Mandates”, since in fact these aren’t laws; they weren’t bills that were voted on by a Legislative body, passed by both Houses, and signed by the Executive branch.)

Court packing? Not sure how you got there. I’m not a fan.
 
2020HD said:
Meaning: if I was on the SCOTUS, I would vote (rule?) to discard any vaccine requirement mandates for the reasons I stated in my first post. (“Mandates”, since in fact these aren’t laws; they weren’t bills that were voted on by a Legislative body, passed by both Houses, and signed by the Executive branch.)
Click to expand...
I'm not necessarily against your point on vaccines for the general public as the constitutionality of that might be a little weak.

In My opnion, Vaccines for the military are a different story.
 
2020HD said:
On the face of it, most everyone would agree the Courts shouldn’t tell the CIC what to do with respect to deployments. On the other hand, with this particular topic, with what we know now about the shots no longer stopping transmission of current strains, the infinitesimal risks to healthy young people, and the very real side effects on some individuals, I would vote to drop it all at this point. This is an odd case and I’m not sure of another parallel, but for the points made above, at some point our service members should be able to obtain relief from the feelings of their temporary leadership.
Click to expand...
Not being a doctor, I don't want to start an argument over efficacy of vaccines or other treatments or preventions. What I will say, and this just MHO is that the military I believe has always had the right to require different preventative treatments (shots/pills) that it feels is in the best interest of protecting this country's readiness. If a member refuses something the services consider mandatory, there are numerous different results, one of them being Change of Duty Station or Change of Duty.

JMHO again, BUT, I think this whole vaccine thing has become a royal mess! If you truly feel you cannot receive a vaccine, then maybe it is OK that you continue to serve, but in a status that does not affect others who COULD be placed in a position they don't want because of your beliefs. The Military Services are NOT MANDATORY in this Country (at least not right now) and if you decide you are against them, there is nothing preventing you from leaving under Honorable Conditions and getting a different similar job in the civilian sector. I think that most people entering service understand that certain things will be different and possibly mandatory in the military that are not in the civilian sector, but when the Courts intervene in Military decisions regarding readiness, whether they are correct of not is not a good thing. If every order coming down is ignored or fought in the Courts this country is in for more problems, and do we really want EVERY order someone disagrees with to be reviewed by some Federal Judge who may have little or no experience with military issues?
 
Last edited:
Must admit that, as a former member of the military, I was . . . shocked, amazed, aghast, horrified . . . by the idea that members of the military are refusing to get vaccinated against COVID. When you show up on I-Day (or at boot camp or wherever you enter the military), there is a list of vaccines you must have. If you don't have records to prove you received them, they'll give them to you on the spot. If you don't want them, the option is not to join the military.

At various times during my USN career, we were told we needed other vaccines. Flu shots. Yellow fever. Tetanus. All sorts of things. Not getting them wasn't even considered -- certainly wasn't held out as an option. Didn't matter if you didn't want it, didn't think you needed it, whatever. You got it b/c you're in the military and the military decided you needed it. End of story.

I don't see the difference with the COVID vaccine. The military says you have to have it. That should be the end of the story here as well. I have zero sympathy for those who don't get the vaccine and suffer consequences. No difference than vaccines (or other medicine) for measles, polio, yellow fever, tetanus, and all the rest.

The military cannot be in the business of "making accommodations" based on everyone's viewpoint. What if someone doesn't want the measles vaccine and another person doesn't want polio and someone else refuses to do what's necessary to prevent yellow fever and someone else . . .? This is the military, not a civilian company. You join . . . you know the rules. If you don't like them, leave (if you can). If you can't leave (i.e., under a service obligation), then don't complain when you're kicked out without benefits.
 
Just to be clear, two things can be true at once:
1. military members need to follow orders with respect to inoculations, and
2. military members can attempt to seek redress for perceived wrongs

I’m not disputing #1, as the last 3 posters may have interpreted. Decisions have consequences.
My remarks were specifically about #2… in fact that were in response to the OP’s first post about the SCOTUS ruling. The ruling is the ruling and I merely opined why I would have ruled differently.

And since I’m a little hangry (went to gym this morning and am overdue for lunch), I’ll take light-hearted umbrage with “Implusive”’s not being a doctor remark. I’m not a doctor either and still I know the shots are no longer stopping transmission of current strains, we know now the risks to healthy young people can be seen as infinitesimal, and there is very real side effects on some individuals. I’m not a veterinarian and I know what a dog is. I’m not a biologist and I know what a… well, actually I think I’ll stop. 😂 Time for lunch!

PS- sorry about the first quote in my multi-quote in post #5. Just noticed it and don’t know how it happened, and I can’t edit the post anymore.
 
Sorry, but all of the reputable data clearly shows that the risk from infection is far greater than the risk from vaccination. From a risk reward perspective, mandating the shot is a safer bet.

Also, there is *virtually* no justification for any religious objection, which is the reason that *virtually* no religious exemptions have been granted.
 
“this is an odd case”

In what way is this an odd case?

I can see any number of reasons why parents, members of the public, AD, would turn to the courts to over turn other military vax regs, or other decision made by our military , that they did not support.
 
usna1985 said:
Must admit that, as a former member of the military, I was . . . shocked, amazed, aghast, horrified . . . by the idea that members of the military are refusing to get vaccinated against COVID. When you show up on I-Day (or at boot camp or wherever you enter the military), there is a list of vaccines you must have. If you don't have records to prove you received them, they'll give them to you on the spot. If you don't want them, the option is not to join the military.

At various times during my USN career, we were told we needed other vaccines. Flu shots. Yellow fever. Tetanus. All sorts of things. Not getting them wasn't even considered -- certainly wasn't held out as an option. Didn't matter if you didn't want it, didn't think you needed it, whatever. You got it b/c you're in the military and the military decided you needed it. End of story.

I don't see the difference with the COVID vaccine. The military says you have to have it. That should be the end of the story here as well. I have zero sympathy for those who don't get the vaccine and suffer consequences. No difference than vaccines (or other medicine) for measles, polio, yellow fever, tetanus, and all the rest.

The military cannot be in the business of "making accommodations" based on everyone's viewpoint. What if someone doesn't want the measles vaccine and another person doesn't want polio and someone else refuses to do what's necessary to prevent yellow fever and someone else . . .? This is the military, not a civilian company. You join . . . you know the rules. If you don't like them, leave (if you can). If you can't leave (i.e., under a service obligation), then don't complain when you're kicked out without benefits.
Click to expand...
DD is getting ready for her second deployment and got 7 vaccines. I asked her what and she knew anthrax (again), yellow fever (again), but isn’t sure about the others.
 
2020HD said:
Just to be clear, two things can be true at once:
1. military members need to follow orders with respect to inoculations, and
2. military members can attempt to seek redress for perceived wrongs

I’m not disputing #1, as the last 3 posters may have interpreted. Decisions have consequences.
My remarks were specifically about #2… in fact that were in response to the OP’s first post about the SCOTUS ruling. The ruling is the ruling and I merely opined why I would have ruled differently.

And since I’m a little hangry (went to gym this morning and am overdue for lunch), I’ll take light-hearted umbrage with “Implusive”’s not being a doctor remark. I’m not a doctor either and still I know the shots are no longer stopping transmission of current strains, we know now the risks to healthy young people can be seen as infinitesimal, and there is very real side effects on some individuals. I’m not a veterinarian and I know what a dog is. I’m not a biologist and I know what a… well, actually I think I’ll stop. 😂 Time for lunch!

PS- sorry about the first quote in my multi-quote in post #5. Just noticed it and don’t know how it happened, and I can’t edit the post anymore.
Click to expand...

I will agree with you to prevent further argument, however "attempting" to seek redress and disobeying an order are two different things. The military has mechanisms for seeking redress if someone is "wronged" legally, but I do not believe that has ever applied to any "Lawful Orders"?? I take this akin to the President ordering the military to shoot down a plane that is refusing to exit restricted airspace and the pilots talking over secure radio about not doing what is ordered because it goes against their religious or personal beliefs to attack a perceived unarmed foe. And this plane suicide crashes with explosives into a large office building killing thousands. Sound familiar? 9/11, if military pilots were on scene and ordered to shot down the jetliners and they refused, do you really think a Military Court would side with them on religious or personal grounds?
 
This is what happens when vaccines get politicized. It would be interesting to see how many other religious (admin) accommodations have been made for other vaccines. Has any established religion actually came out against the COVID vaccine? Not sure how one can say they follow a faith that supports the vaccine, but then claims they are (individually) against it. The religious accommodation isn’t about a sincerely held individual belief…if it was, then everyone would file an accommodation for something. If one doesn’t want the vaccine, then getting out is a great option…the Navy was ADSEPing for honorable, in most instances.

Also unprecedented for a federal court to require the Navy to keep a CO in command who not only refused the vaccine, but then lied/hid about traveling out of area (leaving out of area required permission)…where the chain of command and immediate boss had a complete loss of trust and confidence in his subordinate. Wondering when this will be reversed.
 
usna1985 said:
At various times during my USN career, we were told we needed other vaccines. Flu shots. Yellow fever. Tetanus. All sorts of things. Not getting them wasn't even considered -- certainly wasn't held out as an option. Didn't matter if you didn't want it, didn't think you needed it, whatever. You got it b/c you're in the military and the military decided you needed it. End of story.
Click to expand...
After the yellow fever shot. I was so sick. Thanks for the flashback. ;-)
 
The military has more leeway in requiring certain medical treatments and preventions so that troops are ready to deploy/fight. This is appropriate here, but not necessarily for the general public.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top