Tell me why it may not happen.

[Old Navy BGO]

But I think (and hope I'm correct?) that a late appointment does not matter as your MOC's still will have their slots available.

Anyone on a competitive MOC slate will not be offered an appointment until the application window closes and all candidates on the slate are evaluated. This is still a few weeks away.

^ This .... For all those anxiously waiting for the BFE (or email) because they submitted their application last summer, this is why the wait is so long.

I think it is to safe to say that the majority of candidates gain appointment through their MOC nomination, and most MOC use the competitive process. Noms and Appointment's cannot even start the process of evaluating the MOC slate until all Applications are complete and have gone to the Admissions Board,

. I had a candidate just a couple years ago who didn't even submit his name /information to USNA and become an Official Candidate until after he received a Nomination. His name popped upon my BGO portal in late November or early December, and when I asked him why it took him so long to start the application, he indicated that he didn't think he needed to do anything until he had a Nomination. He got the application just before the end of January, and ended up getting an Appointment. Not the recommended approach, but certainly avoided the long wait.

 

[Lazyboy]

Snowflake status- Engaged.

 

[USMA 1994]

Anyone on a competitive MOC slate will not be offered an appointment until the application window closes and all candidates on the slate are evaluated. This is still a few weeks away.

The few appointments you are reading about are Presidential or Service Connected nominees or LOA recipients that are no brainers.

The waiting is tough on the candidates as well as the parents but you just have to relax and hurry up and wait. It is good training for a future military career.

In terms of how many are offered from the national pool, the number varies each year based on many factors but it is pretty safe to assume somewhere between 150-250. The first 150 go by WCS score and after that the academy gets to pick to meet the class composition goals.

USMA 1994, there are a few "no LOA" appointments on the list with senate/congressional nominations. Most are LOA though.

There are always a "few" of everything each year but generally we are not close to having all the MOC slates resolved. Those few could have multiple nominations, high enough WCS that winning a slate will not matter, heck they could be the only person in the district who applied. The advice I try to give is how the process generally works for most people. You will want to jump of a bridge if you think about every possible thing that can happen.

Your DS or DD has worked hard for many years and we are now in the waiting portion of the process.

Take a deep breath and help them enjoy the last semester of high school. It will be gone before you know it and being a grown up sucks sometimes.

 

[hopeful2023]

I have seen a couple of different references to how an LOA is treated on an MOC slate. Is the LOA automatically ranked first in a competitive slate? And is the LOA counted against the MOC charge? Or is the LOA just ranked within the competitive slate based on the WCS?

 

[LIVEINTHEMOMENT]

USNA Dean of Admissions spoke at a dinner in Dallas in December. He said there were 3100 3q'd applicants. He also said they had a yield rate of 89% which was the highest they had seen and therefore the number accepted for 2021 was higher than expected. He called it a "surplus of riches."

 

[AbsoluteBearing]

USNA Dean of Admissions spoke at a dinner in Dallas in December. He said there were 3100 3q'd applicants. He also said they had a yield rate of 89% which was the highest they had seen and therefore the number accepted for 2021 was higher than expected. He called it a "surplus of riches."

My DD and I were at the dinner also! Loved it!! (and couldn't resist shaking Roger Staubach's hand afterwards!)

 

[USMA 1994]

I have seen a couple of different references to how an LOA is treated on an MOC slate. Is the LOA automatically ranked first in a competitive slate? And is the LOA counted against the MOC charge? Or is the LOA just ranked within the competitive slate based on the WCS?

The slate is ranked by WCS. If the MOC submitted a competitive slate the top ranked candidate will most likely get charged to the MOC. if it is not the LOA holder, they will get brought in either from the first 150 or as an Additional Appointee.

 

[hthp37]

Thank you USMA 1994. I do realize that looking at that appointment list is self-inflicted angst, but can't help it. I find in interesting that a number are noted as "undecided." My first reaction, is OK, I'll take it (kidding!), but I guess a number of them are looking at other SA's, rotc, etc. Guessing that waiting to see if folks actually accept appointment is one of the reasons this process plays out so long.

You just never know. I recall 4 years ago the mid had an early November appointment (presidential nom) & while mid was thrilled to have received it, USNA was not the 1st choice. He did have an nrotc scholarship in his back pocket and was waiting along with most high school seniors to see if he was accepted at U of choice A. Meanwhile, he did get calls from USNA reps-(B&G officer, coach, admission rep)for at least a two-month period "just checking in" to see if he had made a decision yet. He felt stressed knowing another potential appointment was hinging on his decision but that's the game. Plan A did not work out and he accepted his appointment to USNA, graduating & commissioning this May with zero regrets.

 

[usna1985]

There are lots of reasons kids at this point may remain undecided. Sometimes, they are hoping for an appointment to another SA. In some cases, they may be trying to decide b/t a civilian school (possibly including an NROTC scholarship) and a SA. It's a big decision. Appointees have until May 1 to decide. There's zero evidence that someone who makes the decision to accept today is any more likely to be successful at USNA than someone who makes that decision on April 30.

 

[hopeful2023]

I have seen a couple of different references to how an LOA is treated on an MOC slate. Is the LOA automatically ranked first in a competitive slate? And is the LOA counted against the MOC charge? Or is the LOA just ranked within the competitive slate based on the WCS?

The slate is ranked by WCS. If the MOC submitted a competitive slate the top ranked candidate will most likely get charged to the MOC. if it is not the LOA holder, they will get brought in either from the first 150 or as an Additional Appointee.

Thank you!

 

[thunderheadc6]

I have seen a couple of different references to how an LOA is treated on an MOC slate. Is the LOA automatically ranked first in a competitive slate? And is the LOA counted against the MOC charge? Or is the LOA just ranked within the competitive slate based on the WCS?

The slate is ranked by WCS. If the MOC submitted a competitive slate the top ranked candidate will most likely get charged to the MOC. if it is not the LOA holder, they will get brought in either from the first 150 or as an Additional Appointee.

this intrigues me,- as there are 3 including my son-from the same school that have applied to USNA- our District's Congressman gave all 3 a USNA nomination- thus indicates he is using a slate system - my son received an LOA in Nov, the official appointment in Dec and has accepted. One of the other boys just received an LOA (he is either waiting on a medical waiver for an ACL injury or has received it not sure) so could the other boy still get appointed since the MOC won't be charged for the other two appointments?

 

[NavyHoops]

Yes all three can get an appointment. There are many factors that play into this. How many openings that MOC has, if the other appointees have noms from other MOCs or presidential, and even a VP Nom could be used. Also, someone can be appointed from the NWL which is charged elsewhere. I had a squad mate Plebe Year who was 1 or 6 or 7 from his high school class at USNA.

 

[thunderheadc6]

Yes all three can get an appointment. There are many factors that play into this. How many openings that MOC has, if the other appointees have noms from other MOCs or presidential, and even a VP Nom could be used. Also, someone can be appointed from the NWL which is charged elsewhere. I had a squad mate Plebe Year who was 1 or 6 or 7 from his high school class at USNA.

the only nominations given were from the District Congressman-both senators deferred to the Congressional nomination- the other two only applied to the Congressional District nomination -We know that another boy from same school is in his pleb year and 1 girl from same district is in her 2nd year.

 

[thunderheadc6]

Yes all three can get an appointment. There are many factors that play into this. How many openings that MOC has, if the other appointees have noms from other MOCs or presidential, and even a VP Nom could be used. Also, someone can be appointed from the NWL which is charged elsewhere. I had a squad mate Plebe Year who was 1 or 6 or 7 from his high school class at USNA.

No other appointments for any of them, both senators deferred to the Congressional nomination for my son, and the other two boys only applied for the District Congressional Nomination. we know that there are at least two cadets from our district currently at USNA- 1 pleb and 1 firstie.

 

[wlkdead]

Remember that sometimes not getting what you want is a wonderful stroke of luck. Dalai Lama

 

[USMA 1994]

Yes all three can get an appointment. There are many factors that play into this. How many openings that MOC has, if the other appointees have noms from other MOCs or presidential, and even a VP Nom could be used. Also, someone can be appointed from the NWL which is charged elsewhere. I had a squad mate Plebe Year who was 1 or 6 or 7 from his high school class at USNA.

the only nominations given were from the District Congressman-both senators deferred to the Congressional nomination- the other two only applied to the Congressional District nomination -We know that another boy from same school is in his pleb year and 1 girl from same district is in her 2nd year.

Remember the entire process. There are around 250-300 spots each year that come from the NWL. The first 150 get offered by OML and then the academy gets to fill the remaining seats as they wish to meet class composition goals.

Any one of the three can be selected in each group. With an LOA, they may not win the slate, may not be in the top 150 on the NWL and still get an offer as an Additional Appointee. Those individuals must have a nomination but will not be charged to the MOC

 

[usna1985]

Given the reduced class sizes for USNA, there aren't as many "additional" slots from the National Pool/NWL as there used to be. Last year, USNA had ~1160 in the entering class. ~250 came from NAPS/Foundation. That leaves 910 slots in the entering class which, given the yield, means about 1010 offers of appointment for those slots. The following numbers are for illustrative purposes only (they are NOT official). 100 come from Presidential noms. Up to 775 could come from MOC noms (~540 MOCs [including PR, Guam, DC, etc.], with some having two slots open each year). Some of those slots are not filled because there are not a sufficient number of qualified applicants in each district, especially if the district has 2 openings. Assume 650 from MOC slates. Another 20 from NROTC. Another 20 directly from the fleet. A small number from other sources (VP, children of deceased/disabled vets) -- say 10. Add the 150 from the NWL. You're already at 950. That only leaves 60 additional spots (and that's if the MOC number is closer to 650 than 775).

The unfortunate fact is that, if you don't win your MOC slate, the odds of an appointment are getting longer. And that is why "it may not happen" for so many truly great candidates.

***Edited to correct errors in math/methodology.

 

[wlkdead]

Given the reduced class sizes for USNA, there aren't as many "additional" slots from the National Pool/NWL as there used to be. Last year, USNA had ~1160 in the entering class, which (given the yield) means roughly 1290 offers of appointment. ~250 came from NAPS/Foundation. That leaves 1040 direct appointments. The following numbers are for illustrative purposes only (they are NOT official). 100 come from Presidential noms. Up to 775 could come from MOC noms (~540 MOCs [including PR, Guam, DC, etc.], with some having two slots open each year). Some of those slots are not filled because there are not a sufficient number of qualified applicants in each district, especially if the district has 2 openings. Assume 650 from MOC slates. Another 20 from NROTC. Another 20 directly from the fleet. A small number from other sources (VP, children of deceased/disabled vets) -- say 10. Add the 150 from the NWL. You're already at 950. That only leaves 90 additional spots (and that's if the MOC number is closer to 650 than 775).

The unfortunate fact is that, if you don't win your MOC slate, the odds of an appointment are getting longer. And that is why "it may not happen" for so many truly great candidates.

Thank you for making it so clear. Also, in Class of 2021 there were 15 international students. They are in the total of the entering class, right? After reading lots of when?why?waiting posts, i still cant understand the benefit of applying early. If the candidate is very competitive, but didn't win his/her MOC slate, will the chance to get appointment have anything to do if application was submitted in July or Jan?

 

[USMA 1994]

Given the reduced class sizes for USNA, there aren't as many "additional" slots from the National Pool/NWL as there used to be. Last year, USNA had ~1160 in the entering class, which (given the yield) means roughly 1290 offers of appointment. ~250 came from NAPS/Foundation. That leaves 1040 direct appointments. The following numbers are for illustrative purposes only (they are NOT official). 100 come from Presidential noms. Up to 775 could come from MOC noms (~540 MOCs [including PR, Guam, DC, etc.], with some having two slots open each year). Some of those slots are not filled because there are not a sufficient number of qualified applicants in each district, especially if the district has 2 openings. Assume 650 from MOC slates. Another 20 from NROTC. Another 20 directly from the fleet. A small number from other sources (VP, children of deceased/disabled vets) -- say 10. Add the 150 from the NWL. You're already at 950. That only leaves 90 additional spots (and that's if the MOC number is closer to 650 than 775).

The unfortunate fact is that, if you don't win your MOC slate, the odds of an appointment are getting longer. And that is why "it may not happen" for so many truly great candidates.

Thank you for making it so clear. Also, in Class of 2021 there were 15 international students. They are in the total of the entering class, right? After reading lots of when?why?waiting posts, i still cant understand the benefit of applying early. If the candidate is very competitive, but didn't win his/her MOC slate, will the chance to get appointment have anything to do if application was submitted in July or Jan?

The real advantage of applying early is to make sure nothing gets missed and being able to respond to issues that may come up like a remedial or failed CFA. If you are on a competitive slate, you will most likely wait till January before a decision is made.

My advice to candidates is to get it done in the fall so the rest of the process can keep moving. There is no real reason to finish in July but January may be too late.

Winning a MOC slate is the most direct way to get in. In reality you are competing against nine other individuals in your district. The only thing I will add to @usna1985 post is that the 250 Prepsters are distributed across all categories. They may win a MOC slate, have a service connected nomination, be in the first 150 of the NWL or get selected as an Additional Appointee. There is somewhere around 200-250 "at large" spots each year.

 

[usna1985]

Also, in Class of 2021 there were 15 international students. They are in the total of the entering class, right?

Yes, but they don't count against the "US total." IOW, they are in addition to those permitted under US law. So you're not competing against them.

The only thing I will add to @usna1985 post is that the 250 Prepsters are distributed across all categories. They may win a MOC slate, have a service connected nomination, be in the first 150 of the NWL or get selected as an Additional Appointee

Prepsters are supposed to apply for noms but need not get one to be appointed. If they don't secure a nom, they will be charged to SecNav. If they are charged to an MOC by winning the slate that helps USNA by "freeing up" a spot in the additional appointee category. However, the first 150 off the NWL and Additional Appointees are, I believe, charged to SecNav. So putting a NAPS/Prep student into one of those pools doesn't appear to help the situation all that much (from a charge/allocation standpoint).

Each year, ~250 of the ~1160 members of the entering class come from NAPS/Foundation. That means folks are competing for the remaining ~910 slots or ~1010 direct appointments (given the yield). How they are charged isn't really relevant to candidates. The important point is that, as the class size goes down, the number of "additional appointees" goes down b/c the other sources of appointments are largely static. Lots of terrific candidates used to be appointed from that group -- now those numbers are dwindling b/c of the reduced class size [which, BTW, is due to reduced attrition].

Again, the purpose of the above is to answer the original question . . . how do so many terrific young men & women end up with TWEs? In the end, it's a numbers game and I've tried to explain how the numbers work (please recognize that the example numbers are for illustrative purposes only and are not actual numbers, which (other than entering class size and # of Prepsters) USNA does not publish).